TOPPS disses Rose

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by mbgrayson

First of all, he was never in any way punished for greenies, nor was anyone else in his era. Not Aaron, Mays, Bench, etc. Greenies were apparently readily availbale in every MLB club house, and it is totally wrong to pick Rose out of everyone else on that issue. This has been hashed over by Pete Rose haters for years and I, for one, am sick and tired of it.

He was banned for gambling on baseball. Period. That infraction is certainly bad enough in it's own right, but in no way does it impact the wonderful playing career that Pete Rose gave us. In no conceivable way does it diminish his 4,256 career hits. Period.

I would throw all of those guys under the bus too if they were brought up as never taking anything. But someone specifically brought up Pete as never taking something. He did. And it is banned in MLB right now.

His being kicked out of baseball absolutely impacts his playing career. We can't look back on it the same way. We aren't allowed to celebrate it. No Pete Rose bobblehead. No Pete Rose number 14 retirement night. Nothing.

Finally, why would Topps choose to omit Rose's all-time hit record, without also 'taking away' Bonds all time or single season HR record? There is a guy whose infractions directly impacted his records.

Barry Bonds isn't banned from baseball. He is currently allowed to be on MLB merchandise. Pete isn't.

Topps may like the publicity this gets, but I for one am finished with their products for good. I'm closing my E-Topps account, and never buying from them again.

Holy overreaction Batman.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

That is why I can't stand Pete. At all.

What did he do? He took away MY CHANCE to celebrate an all time great in the sport I love, in the city I love and the team I love because he thought he was special. If I were a fan of another team, I probably wouldn't be a fan or anything, but I would not have downright disdain for him or get angry when people bring him up. The guy took away so much from my ability as a Cincinnati native who happens to love baseball and the Reds because he was selfish. Because he thought he was bigger than the game.

Sounds like you and Pete might have a lot in common in the selfish category.

I watched him play the game for the majority of his career, and in spite of what he did, I loved every minute of it and am totally glad that I had the opportunity to watch one of the all-time greats. He played hard every time I ever saw him play, which was a lot. His play on the field never disappointed me. Nothing he did, off the field will take any of that memory away.

[mbgrayson]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I would throw all of those guys under the bus too if they were brought up as never taking anything. But someone specifically brought up Pete as never taking something. He did. And it is banned in MLB right now.

It is completely irrelevant to the argument about whether Topps can cite that the all time hit record belongs to Rose. It is a red herring issue that you threw out there.

Originally Posted by dougdirt

His being kicked out of baseball absolutely impacts his playing career. We can't look back on it the same way. We aren't allowed to celebrate it. No Pete Rose bobblehead. No Pete Rose number 14 retirement night. Nothing. Barry Bonds isn't banned from baseball. He is currently allowed to be on MLB merchandise. Pete isn't.

Well, not really. You CAN buy Pete Rose gear on the official MLB web site right now. See HERE. Today, there is a 1980 Phillies World Championship poster with Pete on it, there is a signed photo of Rose and Bench, a Rose #14 framed print, and a 4192 milestone Rose print. On the official MLB site...

It is true that the Reds haven't officially retired his number, admitted him to the Reds or MLB HOF, or issued a recent Rose bobblehead. (There was one in 2002, Farewell to Cinergy field...).

But as for me, and many other older Reds fans, I most certainly WILL "look back on it [Rose's baseball career] the same way". The records are in the book, The 1975 and 1976 World Series Championship trophies remain in the Reds HOF. There is a life size Rose figure in the Reds HOF, along with lots of other Rose memorabilia. He continues to keep his Rookie of the Year award, MVP award, Silver slugger, batting titles, gold gloves, and other awards and records. He actually played in 17 All Star games. In short, Pete the player and all he accomplished was quite real, and no amount of revisionist history will change it to me, or many other Reds fans.

[westofyou]

Barry Bonds isn't banned from baseball. He is currently allowed to be on MLB merchandise. Pete isn't.

MLB has this on Pete:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/baseballs_bes..._091185_sdpcin


Career Hits

9/11/1985Pete Rose's 4192nd

And this:

Site results for pete rose
Pete Rose Stats, Video Highlights, Photos, Bio | MLB.com ...
The latest Pete Rose Stats, Video Highlights, News and more from
MLB.com. To learn about ... Pete Rose. Full Name: Born ...
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=121454
Pete Rose Stats, Video Highlights, Photos, Bio | MLB.com ...
... Pete Rose. Full Name: Born: in ,. Bats/Throws: /; HT: '''; WT ... PETE ROSE
STATS SUMMARY. PETE ROSE CAREER STATS. ...
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=121454
Reds All-Stars | reds.com: History

1985, Dave Parker (OF), Pete Rose (1B). ... 1975, Johnny Bench (C), Dave
Concepcion (SS), Tony Perez (1B), Joe Morgan (2B), Pete Rose (OF). ...
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/cin/h.../all_stars.jsp

Then you can buy stuff with Pete on it:

http://shop.mlb.com/search/index.jsp...pete+rose&sr=1

hey $400 for this on MLB




Guess it's all a mirage eh?

[RANDY IN INDY]

Must be.

[WMR]

Will Pete be a posthumous inductee into the HoF?

I think that may be the likeliest outcome and hope that it happens if doing it while he's alive isn't in the cards.

I don't mind admitting that I would love to hear the induction speech he would give. I wonder if he's ever written one that he would use if it were to happen? That could be a great marketing opportunity, "The Speech I WOULD Give."

[foxfire123]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Yea but I think it will back fire. In the court of public opinion Pete is still loved by the fans so I can see a backlash where fans wont buy Topps cards as a form of protest.

Yeah, this. Hubby is a hard core card collector, but once he hears this, he'll not buy another Topps pack, new at least. He may put money in the pocket of a secondary seller of older cards, but he won't put money directly into their pocket.

[Tom Servo]

What a silly thing to get worked up about, on either end of the spectrum.

[kheidg-]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I would throw all of those guys under the bus too if they were brought up as never taking anything. But someone specifically brought up Pete as never taking something. He did. And it is banned in MLB right now.

His being kicked out of baseball absolutely impacts his playing career. We can't look back on it the same way. We aren't allowed to celebrate it. No Pete Rose bobblehead. No Pete Rose number 14 retirement night. Nothing.


Barry Bonds isn't banned from baseball. He is currently allowed to be on MLB merchandise. Pete isn't.


Holy overreaction Batman.

Pete Rose is a Top 10 player of all time and he was a Cincinnati Red. Barry Bonds never was a Cincinnati Red nor did he ever do jack for the game compared to Rose. This is a Cincinnati Reds baseball forum. Have you ever met either? I've met both and can tell you that the difference is night and day. Maybe even night and death.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by kheidg-

Pete Rose is a Top 10 player of all time and he was a Cincinnati Red. Barry Bonds never was a Cincinnati Red nor did he ever do jack for the game compared to Rose. This is a Cincinnati Reds baseball forum. Have you ever met either? I've met both and can tell you that the difference is night and day. Maybe even night and death.

Pete is not a top ten player of all time, even if he was a Red

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Pete is not a top ten player of all time, even if he was a Red

Heck, Pete's not even a top ten position player of all time.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I would throw all of those guys under the bus too if they were brought up as never taking anything. But someone specifically brought up Pete as never taking something. He did. And it is banned in MLB right now.

His being kicked out of baseball absolutely impacts his playing career. We can't look back on it the same way. We aren't allowed to celebrate it. No Pete Rose bobblehead. No Pete Rose number 14 retirement night. Nothing.


Barry Bonds isn't banned from baseball. He is currently allowed to be on MLB merchandise. Pete isn't.


Holy overreaction Batman.

There was a time when Barry was not a member of the MLBPA, so he could not have his name on a Strat-O-Matic card for licensing reasons. His card was known by the initials Y A (anyone knowing why, please advise). I don't know if that ever got resolved.

I realize that is different, but is similar that in your example has had or may still have restrictions.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Pete is not a top ten player of all time, even if he was a Red

But he was on the All-Century team and had a historically significant career and would have been a first ballot HOFer based on his playing credentials. He was a great, great ballplayer as a historical fact, just like having the most hits of all time.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by traderumor

But he was on the All-Century team and had a historically significant career and would have been a first ballot HOFer based on his playing credentials. He was a great, great ballplayer and I don't find any need for history to try and deny that.

No doubt he was and Topps is foolish for even thinking they have call in it

But just because he was a Red doesn't mean he gets into the top ten list and since he played five positions its possible to find better players at each position he graced

He certainly wasn't better than Bonds

No matter how one measures it

[WMR]

WOY, do you think Pete will be a posthumous induction into the HoF? Really want your insight.