2013 Bengals Discussion (Part 2)

[Joseph]

Burfict is quickly becoming my favorite player on the Bengals D, perhaps the entire team even. He fights like hell out there, every game.

And to think he was picked up off the 'unwanted' list.

[bucksfan2]

That game was a game the Bengals thoroughly dominated but ended up going to OT. After the first two Buffalo drives the D did a pretty good job of dominating. It has been talked about quite a bit, but when Zimmer gets in a tight situation he biltzes. In watching the game they ended up being the wrong calls. Two busted coverages led to two easy TD's for the Bills. In all actuality had Nugent not missed a 34 yard FG that game is pretty much over mid way through the 4th.

I think Boomer brought up a good point on the Bengals D. If you have a rookie QB don't make the decision easy for him. When they brought the blitzes on the two TD passes it was a simple decision for Lewis. I thought the DLine was playing very good and the secondary was doing a good job of defending when they just rushed 4.

As it is the Bengals sit a 4-2 and in first place in the division. This isn't the same old Bengals that has been thrown around by many. They have pulled out several tough games. I keep going back the the idea that its hard to win on the road in the NFL. Lewis was a practice squad QB, but a QB the Bengals didn't have a whole lot of tape on. After two drives the Bengals did a very good job of stopping the Bills.

[Redsfaithful]

Weird game, Bengals dominated time of possession, yards, and turnovers were even, so you'd think it would have been a blowout.

Buffalo is a tough place to go and win, so I'm pretty happy. Detroit will be a big test for the defense next week.

[Ohayou]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000261224/Green-54-yard-reception

That's funny right there.

[usfldan]

I think Boomer brought up a good point on the Bengals D. If you have a rookie QB don't make the decision easy for him. When they brought the blitzes on the two TD passes it was a simple decision for Lewis. I thought the DLine was playing very good and the secondary was doing a good job of defending when they just rushed 4.


I can't speak to the first one, but on the tying TD, the play before the TD they rushed just four and Lewis sat back there all day before he hit the tight end over the middle. It seemed to me they did need to do something different to bring some pressure, I guess just not what they did do.

And why does it seem like everyone is down on the special teams. Yes, they did have the sequence with the penalty and missed FG, but they played very well the rest of the game. Huber had three of five punts inside the 20, they neutralized a good punter returner in McKelvin, and Buffalo's average drive start on five kickoffs was the 23. If anything, special teams ended up winning the game with the return by Tate and the field goal by Nugent in OT.

I agree it seemed like they dominated overall and it felt like they should have won much easier, but a win on the road (I think I heard their first win in Buffalo since 1985) and sole possession of first place is a pretty nice outcome.

[Hoosier Red]

I think Boomer brought up a good point on the Bengals D. If you have a rookie QB don't make the decision easy for him. When they brought the blitzes on the two TD passes it was a simple decision for Lewis. I thought the DLine was playing very good and the secondary was doing a good job of defending when they just rushed 4.


Lapham said before the game that they blitzed Hoyer just 11 times and he expected to see a few more blitzes yesterday.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't I guess.

[Stray]

I can't speak to the first one, but on the tying TD, the play before the TD they rushed just four and Lewis sat back there all day before he hit the tight end over the middle. It seemed to me they did need to do something different to bring some pressure, I guess just not what they did do.

And why does it seem like everyone is down on the special teams. Yes, they did have the sequence with the penalty and missed FG, but they played very well the rest of the game. Huber had three of five punts inside the 20, they neutralized a good punter returner in McKelvin, and Buffalo's average drive start on five kickoffs was the 23. If anything, special teams ended up winning the game with the return by Tate and the field goal by Nugent in OT.

I agree it seemed like they dominated overall and it felt like they should have won much easier, but a win on the road (I think I heard their first win in Buffalo since 1985) and sole possession of first place is a pretty nice outcome.

The sequence where we had a holding that took 3 points off of the board followed by the missed kick, then fielding a punt inside of our 5 yard line that ruined our drive gave them all of the momentum they needed to tie the game. I agree Huber had a good game, and Nugent is gonna miss some kicks, but we can't continue to have those silly mistakes on the road if we want to take the next step.

[Sea Ray]

Both on Burfict were weak. The first one on the QB he hit Gilberry, not Lewis. And on the second one A) I'm not sure what he's supposed to do and B) I'm not sure it was even a catch.

I wonder if Burfict is starting to get a reputation and the flags will start coming quicker on him.

I thought in order to get called for a personal foul you had to at least touch the opposing player. That call was sad. I hope the league looks at it and has a long conversation with Hochuli

[wolfboy]

Burfict was unquestionably targeted by the refs at Arizona State. I really hope the same doesn't happen here.

[Sea Ray]

Might not have been, sure seemed like they took the foot off the gas pedal though.

It was a perfect storm. Home team gets some momentum, hits on a couple big plays and very poor field position for the Bengals. There's not much opening up the offense when you're inside your own 10

[Hillsdale87]

And why does it seem like everyone is down on the special teams. Yes, they did have the sequence with the penalty and missed FG, but they played very well the rest of the game. Huber had three of five punts inside the 20, they neutralized a good punter returner in McKelvin, and Buffalo's average drive start on five kickoffs was the 23. If anything, special teams ended up winning the game with the return by Tate and the field goal by Nugent in OT.


I think 11 special teams penalties in 6 games is a big reason that people are down on special teams. That is inexcusable. Special teams only won the game in OT because they failed to in regulation when Nugent's FG miss would have iced the game.

Tate's return was huge though. He is such an up and down player. He will make decisions back there that can't be explained, but he breaks off enough great plays too. That return yesterday was great

[medford]

a couple of interesting stats flashed up on the screen. Over the last 3 seasons, the Bengals have made huge stride in their % of trips into the endzone ending in a touch down. From like 24th to 17th up to 3rd this year, converting something like 2/3rds of their red zone possesions into touchdowns. They were either 2/3 or 3/4 (can't remember if AJ's TD came inside the 20, I believe it was longer, but haven't looked it up) w/ the 1 miss coming on the missed FG.

the other stat, is that since Andy was drafted, he's only thrown 1 red zone intereception (last week vs New England) and is 2nd in the league in that time period in redzone TD to INT ratio (Rodgers is first, Brady is 3rd, all 3 have exactly 1 redzone INT)

Those 2 things tell me that Andy is one of the best at managing the game in short windows (ie in the redszone as the field tightens up). Extending that to what they've been doing the last 2 weeks, shorter throws, more bubble screens, slants, come back routes, etc... I think is playing into Andy's strengths.

[Stray]

Burfict was unquestionably targeted by the refs at Arizona State. I really hope the same doesn't happen here.

I guess the refs expected him to stop all of his momentum mid tackle the second their QB started his slide.

[Stray]

a couple of interesting stats flashed up on the screen. Over the last 3 seasons, the Bengals have made huge stride in their % of trips into the endzone ending in a touch down. From like 24th to 17th up to 3rd this year, converting something like 2/3rds of their red zone possesions into touchdowns. They were either 2/3 or 3/4 (can't remember if AJ's TD came inside the 20, I believe it was longer, but haven't looked it up) w/ the 1 miss coming on the missed FG.

the other stat, is that since Andy was drafted, he's only thrown 1 red zone intereception (last week vs New England) and is 2nd in the league in that time period in redzone TD to INT ratio (Rodgers is first, Brady is 3rd, all 3 have exactly 1 redzone INT)

Those 2 things tell me that Andy is one of the best at managing the game in short windows (ie in the redszone as the field tightens up). Extending that to what they've been doing the last 2 weeks, shorter throws, more bubble screens, slants, come back routes, etc... I think is playing into Andy's strengths.

38tds/1int in the redzone is an amazing stat

[Sea Ray]

I guess the refs expected him to stop all of his momentum mid tackle the second their QB started his slide.

Not only that but he didn't even touch the QB

[New York Red]

All those roughing penalties need to be reviewed, and I think they will be beginning next year.

[Sea Ray]

All those roughing penalties need to be reviewed, and I think they will be beginning next year.

Do you think they'll ever turn back the clock on those? I have a hard time believing that they'll put the cat back in the bag and allow more hitting...although they did add some sanity this yr on blows to the head. They no longer are supposed to call glancing blows penalties.

[New York Red]

Do you think they'll ever turn back the clock on those? I have a hard time believing that they'll put the cat back in the bag and allow more hitting...although they did add some sanity this yr on blows to the head. They no longer are supposed to call glancing blows penalties.
I think this year they are erring on the side of safety, and I'm certainly ok with that. I just think they need to do some tinkering with the system still. A couple of the guest refs they have on some NFL broadcasts have stated there will be changes made. It's a work in progress obviously, but I don't see why certain things can't be tinkered with during the season.

[Sea Ray]

I think this year they are erring on the side of safety, and I'm certainly ok with that. I just think they need to do some tinkering with the system still. A couple of the guest refs they have on some NFL broadcasts have stated there will be changes made. It's a work in progress obviously, but I don't see why certain things can't be tinkered with during the season.

I agree with you. I'm just not so sure that they will. Untimely 15 yd penalties/auto 1st downs is determining in some cases who wins and who loses and that's not good

[Sea Ray]

You know, what exactly is a QB worth these days? I don't think we'd get much argument around here that Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and (it pains me to say it) Ben Rothlisberger are franchise QBs while Andy Dalton is not. Neither are Brian Hoyer or Thad Lewis yet we won the three games aforementioned, lost to Hoyer and played Lewis to a draw. I think we're learning that a QB is not worth much more than other things like turnovers, good line play etc. The only exception to this is Peyton.

[BungleBengals]

You know, what exactly is a QB worth these days? I don't think we'd get much argument around here that Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and (it pains me to say it) Ben Rothlisberger are franchise QBs while Andy Dalton is not. Neither are Brian Hoyer or Thad Lewis yet we won the three games aforementioned, lost to Hoyer and played Lewis to a draw. I think we're learning that a QB is not worth much more than other things like turnovers, good line play etc. The only exception to this is Peyton.

I do not know why everybody in this city is complaining about Dalton. Yes, he is not elite and may not be the best QB in Cincinnati history, but at least he is winning. Dalton is a game manager and I am fine with that. Trent Dilfer won a championship and he was not the best QB that year or any year.

The Bengals are blessed with a great defense and pretty good coaching. We are in first place in the best division from last year, yet people are complaining? However, I think Dalton can have better numbers with one simple move: Bernard plays a RB/WR combo. The guy is so quick and shifty that he needs to be on the field at all times. But why play him every so often for BJE? Put Bernard in the slot sometimes, line him up in the backfield sometimes, and split him out wide sometimes. He is one of our better playmakers and needs to be given the chance to make plays at any given time. Yes, New England started the trend of 2 tight ends at the same time, but why can't we start a new one? We have 1 great WR, 2 good TEs, and 2 good RBs. Why not put them all on the field at the same time? Sanu and Marvin are serviceable sometimes, but mismatches are made when you could have a LB trying to cover Gio in the slot and that is where things will open up for across the middle passes, screens, and dinks and dunks. Everntually this all leads to AJ over the top. Just a thought. Either way, we are in first! Who Dey!

[medford]

I don't think you want Bernard on the field "at all times" RB is a tough spot, and it wears on you quickly. For all the good things Gio does, the one thing he can't control is his size. Now, he's got a stronger frame than Reggie Bush, but I heard an analysis of Reggie where Reggie conceeded that he was at his best in Miami last season (and Detroit now) as well as his early days in New Orleans b/c he was getting smaller % of the plays. In between, New Orleans had him on the field a lot more plays and he wore down much quicker, was injuried more, beat up, etc... A shifty guy like that plays at his best when he's fresh. A big bruiser like an Eddie George, Ruddie Johnson, etc are at their best when they opponent is worn down and their bulk can carry an extra 2-4 yards a pop in crunch time.

The offense has seemingly evolved the last couple of weeks, and I'm interested to see if it continues. They were throwing it down field a lot more early in the season and early in Dalton's career. The last couple of weeks, they've run a lot more slants, screens, fades and come back route. Plays designed to get the ball out in a hurry in a position only the reciever can make a play on it w/ the possibility to bust one lose. I'd like to see that continue as it plays into Andy's strengths.

One thing I'd like to see them do, is go to their 2-1 set (two tight ends, 1 RB) w/ Bernard at RB and Sanu as the WR opposite AJ. Then run a no huddle offense out off it with a large varience of formations based upon the ability of those 5 guys to lign up in multiple spots and make plays. With the exception of AJ who's mostly a split end type (though he does do some work out of the slot) you have Gio who can lineup in the backfield and in the slot, you have Eiffert & Gresham who can line up at TE, at FB, at split end or in the slot, and you have Sanu who can line up in the slot, at split end and in the back field. Just using those 5 guys, you can run a 2 TE set, a 1 TE set w/ Eiffert acting as the FB, a spread, a bunch formation, you could pull Sanu into the backfield and run a pro formation w/ 2 TE, a pro formation w/ 1 TE and Effort lined up outside, etc, etc, etc... Its about as versatale a personal group as there is in the league, and all of those guys have already lined up in the spots that I've mentioned at different points in their career. Better yet, if you run it out of the no huddle, you don't give the opponent a chance to alter their defensive personal, so if you have a 3-1 and they've bot a nickle package in, you can pound the ball, if its 3-3 and they've got their base formation 4-3 (or 3-4) in, you can spread them out and exploit a mismatch. Those 5 guys give you an almost endless combination of formations to throw at an opponent and its almost a garuntee that you've going to have a strong mismatch somewhere for an easy gain using AJ's talents, Gio speed, Sanu's shiftiness and/or the size of both TEs.

[New York Red]

You know, what exactly is a QB worth these days? I don't think we'd get much argument around here that Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and (it pains me to say it) Ben Rothlisberger are franchise QBs while Andy Dalton is not. Neither are Brian Hoyer or Thad Lewis yet we won the three games aforementioned, lost to Hoyer and played Lewis to a draw. I think we're learning that a QB is not worth much more than other things like turnovers, good line play etc. The only exception to this is Peyton.
I don't put Ben Roethlisberger in the same category as Manning, Rodgers and Brady. Not even close, really. Ben is only as good as the pieces around him. He had the worst QBR in Super Bowl history, yet the Steelers still won despite him.

Peyton and Brady are on a different level. They always win, and win big, regardless whether they have star players surrounding them or not. What Brady is doing this year, with that supporting cast, is crazy. He's winning with backups in the NFL, and he's 90% of why they're winning. As long as a quarterback is poised in the pocket and can stretch the field, he's going to be effective on a good team.

But, IMO, that's the two areas Andy Dalton comes up short. Our playbook is limited because we rarely throw downfield. Almost all of Dalton's passes are thrown within 10 yards of the LOS. When he does unleash one, it's rarely in the air more than 20-25 yards. I don't know if Dalton is the issue or if it's Gruden's play calling, but I'm leaning towards it being more on Dalton limiting the plays Gruden can call.

He can still be good, as he was against the Packers and Bills, but the Bengal offense will continue to have holes until they start stretching the field more.

[traderumor]

Dalton's style at this point ought to be familiar--Ken Anderson.

Deep ball--plenty of deep balls to AJ Green first two years, it seemed?

[New York Red]

Dalton's style at this point ought to be familiar--Ken Anderson.

Deep ball--plenty of deep balls to AJ Green first two years, it seemed?
Ken Anderson led the NFL in passing four times. He should be in the HOF. I remember him throwing a lot of deep balls to Isaac Curtis. I agree about Dalton and Green hooking up on longer throws the first two years. Not sure why that's not happening this year. Even if they don't connect, the threat needs to be there.

[traderumor]

Ken Anderson led the NFL in passing four times. He should be in the HOF. I remember him throwing a lot of deep balls to Isaac Curtis. I agree about Dalton and Green hooking up on longer throws the first two years. Not sure why that's not happening this year. Even if they don't connect, the threat needs to be there.Yea, I'm sure its not a mirror image, but there are just a lot of similarities, both in style, tools, and level of respect. I grew up with Anderson as the QB, so most of my memories of his play are through younger eyes, but Dalton has always struck me as very similar.

Oh, and the funky toes are attacking me again.

[Yachtzee]

Ken Anderson led the NFL in passing four times. He should be in the HOF. I remember him throwing a lot of deep balls to Isaac Curtis. I agree about Dalton and Green hooking up on longer throws the first two years. Not sure why that's not happening this year. Even if they don't connect, the threat needs to be there.

I would note that Curtis had Charlie Joyner or Chris Collinsworth lining up opposite him in Anderson's best passing years. Dalton has to deal with Green getting double/triple teamed every time he goes long.

[Yachtzee]

Yea, I'm sure its not a mirror image, but there are just a lot of similarities, both in style, tools, and level of respect. I grew up with Anderson as the QB, so most of my memories of his play are through younger eyes, but Dalton has always struck me as very similar.

Oh, and the funky toes are attacking me again.

I just did some preliminary research into Anderson's numbers and I would note that Anderson didn't start lighting things up until he'd been in the league a few years. This is Dalton's 3rd year. It would be interesting to see how Dalton's first 2 1/2 seasons compare to some of Anderson's better seasons.

[Hoosier Red]

Ken Anderson led the NFL in passing four times. He should be in the HOF. I remember him throwing a lot of deep balls to Isaac Curtis. I agree about Dalton and Green hooking up on longer throws the first two years. Not sure why that's not happening this year. Even if they don't connect, the threat needs to be there.

As TR stated, it's not a mirror image, but even when Anderson was leading the league in passing, it was due mainly to his accuracy.

For instance, in 1974 he led the NFL in both Yards(2,667) and Yards per Attempt(8.1). However he was only 12th in Yards/Completion.

That said the comparison can only go so far. It's a different game today in so many ways, Dalton finished with almost 1,000 more yards in 2012 than Anderson's 1974 season and finished 16th.


But if Andy can be a poor man's Ken Anderson, he'll be more than enough to keep the Bengals in the Super Bowl hunt.

[New York Red]

It was much more difficult to maintain a high QB Rating in Ken Anderson's era. It's almost like a different sport now.

[New York Red]

But if Andy can be a poor man's Ken Anderson, he'll be more than enough to keep the Bengals in the Super Bowl hunt.
I'll take that! :thumbup:

[Hoosier Red]

It was much more difficult to maintain a high QB Rating in Ken Anderson's era. It's almost like a different sport now.

Absolutely. In 1974, Anderson was one of only two passers to complete >60% of his passes. Bob Griese was the other at 60.1%. Last season, 16 passers (including Dalton) did it.

Chad Henne was last (among qualifiers) with 53.5% completion percentage last year, but in 1974 it would have put him just outside the top 10.

[Yachtzee]

Absolutely. In 1974, Anderson was one of only two passers to complete >60% of his passes. Bob Griese was the other at 60.1%. Last season, 16 passers (including Dalton) did it.

Chad Henne was last (among qualifiers) with 53.5% completion percentage last year, but in 1974 it would have put him just outside the top 10.

Anderson really only had a completion percentage that high twice in the 1970s. After his big years in 74-75, he had a number of years which would be considered dreadful by today's standards and he likely would have been cut. In 1978, he only completed 54% of his passes, throwing 10 TDs to 22 Ints. But Paul Brown stuck with him and he developed into a more consistent passer later in his career. People seem to remember the Ken Anderson highs but forget his lows. I imagine if fantasy football and the internet existed back then, Bengals fans would have been screaming for his head in the late 70s.

With Dalton only in his 3rd year, I don't view him as a finished product. If he can improve with age and continue to win football games, the Bengals would be wise to keep him. I'd rather have that than the QB carousel the Bengals had in the past. Or look at the Browns and their constant drafting and dumping of QBs. I'd rather the Bengals look to getting another receiver to complement Green instead of looking to replace Dalton.

[New York Red]

Anderson really only had a completion percentage that high twice in the 1970s. After his big years in 74-75, he had a number of years which would be considered dreadful by today's standards and he likely would have been cut. In 1978, he only completed 54% of his passes, throwing 10 TDs to 22 Ints. But Paul Brown stuck with him and he developed into a more consistent passer later in his career. People seem to remember the Ken Anderson highs but forget his lows. I imagine if fantasy football and the internet existed back then, Bengals fans would have been screaming for his head in the late 70s.

With Dalton only in his 3rd year, I don't view him as a finished product. If he can improve with age and continue to win football games, the Bengals would be wise to keep him. I'd rather have that than the QB carousel the Bengals had in the past. Or look at the Browns and their constant drafting and dumping of QBs. I'd rather the Bengals look to getting another receiver to complement Green instead of looking to replace Dalton.
I'm enjoying this Bengals discussion with the older Bengals fans.

In Ken Anderson's 4 NFL passing title years, he had two bigtime WRs at his disposal. His first two titles were the last two years he had Curtis and Joiner together, and his last two titles were the first two years he had Curtis and Collinsworth together. Early Joiner wasn't yet the star he became in San Diego and late Curtis wasn't the player he was earlier in his career, but they were still Joiner and Curtis. Who was the Bengals #2 WR from '76-'80? Wasn't that the double tight end/Pete Johnson power run years?

[Yachtzee]

I'm enjoying this Bengals discussion with the older Bengals fans.

In Ken Anderson's 4 NFL passing title years, he had two bigtime WRs at his disposal. His first two titles were the last two years he had Curtis and Joiner together, and his last two titles were the first two years he had Curtis and Collinsworth together. Early Joiner wasn't yet the star he became in San Diego and late Curtis wasn't the player he was earlier in his career, but they were still Joiner and Curtis. Who was the Bengals #2 WR from '76-'80? Wasn't that the double tight end/Pete Johnson power run years?

Billy Brooks and Don Bass were Curtis' counterparts in those years. Archie Griffin and Pete Johnson were the backs. I think another interesting point is that Bill Walsh left after the 1975 season. Anderson does not have another consistently good season until Lindy Infante becomes OC in 1980.

[Stray]

Dalton won the AFC Offensive Player of the Week.

[BungleBengals]

I don't think you want Bernard on the field "at all times" RB is a tough spot, and it wears on you quickly. For all the good things Gio does, the one thing he can't control is his size. Now, he's got a stronger frame than Reggie Bush, but I heard an analysis of Reggie where Reggie conceeded that he was at his best in Miami last season (and Detroit now) as well as his early days in New Orleans b/c he was getting smaller % of the plays. In between, New Orleans had him on the field a lot more plays and he wore down much quicker, was injuried more, beat up, etc... A shifty guy like that plays at his best when he's fresh. A big bruiser like an Eddie George, Ruddie Johnson, etc are at their best when they opponent is worn down and their bulk can carry an extra 2-4 yards a pop in crunch time.


I was saying that you have both BJE and Gio on the field at the same time. Gio does not have to be in the RB position every time either. He can line up in the slot, in the backfield, out wide, whatever. Defenses are already double and sometimes triple covering AJ. So why not put the other guys on the field that create the best mismatches. For example, you could have (from left to right) AJ, Eifert, Gio, oline, BJE in the backfield, and either have Gresham on the right side out wide or on the line. You could get so many mismatches this way. First, you will likely have AJ doubled. Then you have Eifert matched with a safety or CB who is probably a head shorter than him. Then you have Gio likely guarded by a LB or even in some cases a DL. Then you have BJE who can help pick up blitz or even run a route or two out of backfield. Finally, you have a LB or safety trying to guard Gresham. These mismatches can be exploited early and open up so many other options. Teams will focus on Gio and then you can run BJE up the gut for some chunk yardage. Then you can get AJ with single coverage going deep. So on and so forth.

[Hillsdale87]

I think Dalton can have better numbers with one simple move: Bernard plays a RB/WR combo. The guy is so quick and shifty that he needs to be on the field at all times. But why play him every so often for BJE? Put Bernard in the slot sometimes, line him up in the backfield sometimes, and split him out wide sometimes.

Andrew Hawkins should be back soon. He'll be able to fill that role in the slot and should add a lot to the offense without needing to use Gio in excess

[Stray]

I was saying that you have both BJE and Gio on the field at the same time. Gio does not have to be in the RB position every time either. He can line up in the slot, in the backfield, out wide, whatever. Defenses are already double and sometimes triple covering AJ. So why not put the other guys on the field that create the best mismatches. For example, you could have (from left to right) AJ, Eifert, Gio, oline, BJE in the backfield, and either have Gresham on the right side out wide or on the line. You could get so many mismatches this way. First, you will likely have AJ doubled. Then you have Eifert matched with a safety or CB who is probably a head shorter than him. Then you have Gio likely guarded by a LB or even in some cases a DL. Then you have BJE who can help pick up blitz or even run a route or two out of backfield. Finally, you have a LB or safety trying to guard Gresham. These mismatches can be exploited early and open up so many other options. Teams will focus on Gio and then you can run BJE up the gut for some chunk yardage. Then you can get AJ with single coverage going deep. So on and so forth.

I think the 2wr 2te 1rb set is our most versatile package. Mainly because of how much Gresham has improved as a blocker.

We get just as many mismatches in the passing game and we're able to run the ball well out of it.

We know we can count on Sanu and Jones to block, we're now able to get away with Gresham 1on1 vs DEs, and we're still getting Gio on LBs or safeties when we pass out of it.

I know he's taken heat for it, but I love the way Marvin is using Gio and BJGE. Rotating them keeps them fresh and mixes things up.

[HotCorner]

I saw this today and it surprised me because of the heat Dalton gets. Andy Dalton's 2013 stats compared against a QB most would consider a franchise QB.

Andy Dalton
140-215, 65.1%, 1552 yds, 7.2 avg, 8 TD, 6 INT, 87.6 rating

QB X
150-239, 62.8%, 1772 yds, 7.4 avg, 12 TD, 4 INT, 95 rating

Pretty comparable but definitely not outclassed.

QB X? Matthew Stafford.

[wolfboy]

I saw this today and it surprised me. Andy Dalton's 2013 stats compared against a QB most would consider a franchise QB.

Andy Dalton
140-215, 65.1%, 1552 yds, 7.2 avg, 8 TD, 6 INT, 87.6 rating

QB X
150-239, 62.8%, 1772 yds, 7.4 avg, 12 TD, 4 INT, 95 rating

Pretty comparable but definitely not outclassed.

QB X? Matthew Stafford.

I strongly disagree that Stafford is a franchise QB. Yes, he was able to rack up almost 5k yards last season, but consider the following: (i) Detroit had a non-existent run game (Stafford had a record 727 attempts); Megatron; and, (iii) Detroit went out of the shotgun over 70% of the time(!). I suspect that if you put Dalton in that scenario, he could run up gaudy passing yards as well. Stafford has terrible mechanics and is a product of the system they run in Detroit.

[Yachtzee]

I strongly disagree that Stafford is a franchise QB. Yes, he was able to rack up almost 5k yards last season, but consider the following: (i) Detroit had a non-existent run game (Stafford had a record 727 attempts); Megatron; and, (iii) Detroit went out of the shotgun over 70% of the time(!). I suspect that if you put Dalton in that scenario, he could run up gaudy passing yards as well. Stafford has terrible mechanics and is a product of the system they run in Detroit.

Regardless of stats, I think Dalton's legacy will be determined by whether he wins the Super Bowl. I don't consider Ben Roethlisberger a great QB, but I bet he gets serious push to be in the Hall of Fame because of his Super Bowl rings. Terry Bradshaw wasn't the greatest QB, but his team won 4 Super Bowls. If the Bengals had won either of their two Super Bowl appearances, maybe Anderson or Boomer Esiason would be wearing a gold blazer today. It's a winners' league.

[wolfboy]

Regardless of stats, I think Dalton's legacy will be determined by whether he wins the Super Bowl. I don't consider Ben Roethlisberger a great QB, but I bet he gets serious push to be in the Hall of Fame because of his Super Bowl rings. Terry Bradshaw wasn't the greatest QB, but his team won 4 Super Bowls. If the Bengals had won either of their two Super Bowl appearances, maybe Anderson or Boomer Esiason would be wearing a gold blazer today. It's a winners' league.

I can't disagree with this.

[Hillsdale87]

I saw this today and it surprised me because of the heat Dalton gets. Andy Dalton's 2013 stats compared against a QB most would consider a franchise QB.

Andy Dalton
140-215, 65.1%, 1552 yds, 7.2 avg, 8 TD, 6 INT, 87.6 rating

QB X
150-239, 62.8%, 1772 yds, 7.4 avg, 12 TD, 4 INT, 95 rating

Pretty comparable but definitely not outclassed.

QB X? Matthew Stafford.

Those stats are very different, and I don't think Stafford is a "franchise QB" either, although he is certainly good. If you extend that to 16 games, Stafford has 600 more passing yards, 11 more TDs, and 5 less INTs. That's certainly significant. Plus you have to consider that Stafford has been playing without his #2 receiver and with Megatron hurt the last few games. I think Dalton can have success with the Bengals, but I would take Stafford in a heartbeat

[New York Red]

Regardless of stats, I think Dalton's legacy will be determined by whether he wins the Super Bowl. I don't consider Ben Roethlisberger a great QB, but I bet he gets serious push to be in the Hall of Fame because of his Super Bowl rings. Terry Bradshaw wasn't the greatest QB, but his team won 4 Super Bowls. If the Bengals had won either of their two Super Bowl appearances, maybe Anderson or Boomer Esiason would be wearing a gold blazer today. It's a winners' league.
Excellent points.

There's no way Terry Bradshaw was a HOF caliber quarterback. He was benched multiple times during his career and was hated by many Steeler fans. He was even benched during two different Super Bowl seasons. He was so disliked in Pittsburgh, he didn't return to the city for 20 years after he left, and when he finally did return, he brought his daughters on the field with him because he thought there would be less booing that way. He's only in the HOF because he played on some great teams.

Players like Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Ken Riley and Lemarr Parrish (just to name a few) are more deserving of the HOF than Bradshaw is, but they don't have the SB rings.

[Reds Freak]

As a fan, I like where the Bengals are today. A loss wouldn't be devastating but a win would be extremely big.

[Stray]

If Dalton can't improve his accuracy on deep passes I'll be just fine with him underthrowing AJ deep. He wins those most of the time.

[Ohayou]

Grr...

Stafford with another clutch throw.

[Wonderful Monds]

Leon Hall with an "Achilles injury".

Ugh.

[Stray]

He looked like he was in tears on the sideline right after it happened. Since he's had one before, gotta think he knows what it is.

That really sucks :(

[Stray]

We can't stop them on 3rd down

[Ohayou]

Time of possession:

Bengals - 1:47
Lions - 15:31

Lol.

[wolfboy]

That one's on you Gresham.

[Playadlc]

Really Nugent? Who misses under 50 yard FG's in a dome?

[Reds Fanatic]

That one's on you Gresham.

Looks like they might have taken Gresham out of the game for that idiotic penalty.

[Reds Freak]

Last time the Bengals had a blocked FG? Anyone?

[Wonderful Monds]

Woo! Gotta love a FG block

[Wonderful Monds]

What in the hell is Schwartz trying to challenge?

[Stray]

I'm just imagining myself as a Lions fan.

It's like how the Bengals totally dominate sometimes, then you look at the score and we have a 3 point lead. It usually comes back to get us. Lions fans must be thinking the same thing. They've owned this first half.

[Reds Freak]

What in the hell is Schwartz trying to challenge?

My guess is Nelson fumbling it forward to Kirkpatrick for another 20 or so yards.

[Wonderful Monds]

My guess is Nelson fumbling it forward to Kirkpatrick for another 20 or so yards.

Ah that makes sense

[Wonderful Monds]

That was a very anti-climactic TD call from Marv

[Stray]

Dalton has made some great throws today.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fantastic catch by Eifert

[wolfboy]

Dalton has made some great throws today.

Dalton is really getting it done today. Kudos to him. Can't let Detroit get back in it like they did in Buffalo.

[Stray]

Dalton is on fire. He's spreading the ball around to everyone.

[Stray]

This is where we'll usually have a bad fumble or interception. Their defense can't cover us so we gotta take care of the ball and we should be fine.

[New York Red]

Maybe Dalton's best game as a pro, so far. Current QB Rating of 147.5

[Reds Freak]

Geez, Lions convert on 3rd and 20. What do they have? Two stops on 3rd down?

[New York Red]

What is it about this team and third quarter leads? It seems they let up around that time every week. Hopefully they stay on the throttle this time.

[Stray]

That was really good coverage. You can't defend a throw and catch like that.

[wolfboy]

Impressed by Dalton's soft touch today. Great throw to Gresham down the middle.

[New York Red]

The weekly second half blown lead is complete.

[SunDeck]

Maybe Dalton's best game as a pro, so far. Current QB Rating of 147.5

I hate the fact that I have to always search for this rating to figure out how high a rating is. Perfect is 158.3.

[Stray]

Calvin Johnson is a beast. Geez.

[wolfboy]

The weekly second half blown lead is complete.

Detroit is not Buffalo. Can't afford to let them back in the game like this.

[Reds Freak]

That's two TDs that probably only one person on the planet can catch.

[New York Red]

I hate the fact that I have to always search for this rating to figure out how high a rating is. Perfect is 158.3.
Here ya go.


http://www.primecomputing.com/

[Yachtzee]

The weekly second half blown lead is complete.

It sucks, but you have to give credit to the Lions. It's not like they scored on busted plays. Coverage has been good but Calvin Johnson has made some great plays.

[Stray]

That's a weak call on Green

[New York Red]

Dalton's inability to throw the deep ball is a killer.

[Hillsdale87]

Gotta give Green a chance on those plays... Put some air under the ball Andy!

[dougdirt]

Dalton's inability to throw the deep ball is a killer.

Truth. It wouldn't be such an issue if the Bengals didn't have a top 3 WR in the league. But they do. And it is just infuriating to watch him underthrow AJ Green 3 times a game.

[Reds Freak]

Dalton bashing begins in 3...2...1...

[Stray]

Dalton bashing begins in 3...2...1...

You're late lol

[dougdirt]

Dalton bashing begins in 3...2...1...

You spelled truthing wrong.

[Reds Freak]

You spelled truthing wrong.

It's funny you were nowhere to be seen until now. What about the 3 TD passes today?

[Stray]

You spelled truthing wrong.

Is it as infuriating to watch him carve up their defense all game long? He's 19/29 311yrds and 3tds

[dougdirt]

It's funny you were nowhere to be seen until now. What about the 3 TD passes today?

I have been working.

Again, Dalton can't throw the deep ball. I didn't say he is terrible and should be cut. I am saying it is infuriating to watch him underthrow AJ Green 3 times a game because he doesn't have arm strength.

[dougdirt]

Is it as infuriating to watch him carve up their defense all game long? He's 19/29 311yrds and 3tds

And if he had a good arm he would be 21-29 for 400 and 5 touchdowns.

[New York Red]

Dalton bashing begins in 3...2...1...
It's not bashing. It's just an accurate assessment of his game. He's been great today, but the inability to throw the deep ball has completely changed this game. We should have 14 more points, easily. It's the truth. We've seen the best of Dalton today, but also one of his glaring weaknesses. Don't you agree?

[Ohayou]

Perhaps they should play with Nerf footballs instead?

[Reds Freak]

And if he had a good arm he would be 21-29 for 400 and 5 touchdowns.

But I suppose you'd give Stafford credit for the duck he threw that Calvin Johnson turned into a TD?

[Stray]

And if he had a good arm he would be 21-29 for 400 and 5 touchdowns.

Stafford has a good arm and has missed how many deep open receivers today? The assumption that those are high percentage throws is wrong.

[Reds Freak]

It's not bashing. It's just an accurate assessment of his game. He's been great today, but the inability to throw the deep ball has completely changed this game. We should have 14 more points, easily. It's the truth. We've seen the best of Dalton today, but also one of his glaring weaknesses. Don't you agree?

Can't argue with that. But where do you get 14 points?

[dougdirt]

But I suppose you'd give Stafford credit for the duck he threw that Calvin Johnson turned into a TD?

What does Stafford have to do with Andy Dalton not having a good arm?

[nmculbreth]

It's not bashing. It's just an accurate assessment of his game. He's been great today, but the inability to throw the deep ball has completely changed this game. We should have 14 more points, easily. It's the truth. We've seen the best of Dalton today, but also one of his glaring weaknesses. Don't you agree?

Agreed. Dalton has been fantastic but even at his best it's pretty apparent that he doesn't have the ability to stretch the field vertically like most of the upper echelon QBs in the league. That doesn't make him bad, but it does limit his ceiling.

[Ohayou]

Huge 3rd down here.

[Reds Freak]

Lose challenge here and Bengals are down to last timeout. Didn't think he caught it at first, but haven't seen a clear angle.

[New York Red]

Can't argue with that. But where do you get 14 points?
He's underthrown Green 2 or 3 times when Green had his man beat deep. Those were easy touchdowns if they connect.

[Stray]

Whoever we have up in the booth had plenty of time to make the decision.

[Reds Freak]

He's underthrown Green 2 or 3 times when Green had his man beat deep. Those were easy touchdowns if they connect.

Weren't those on the same drive?

[Stray]

He's underthrown Green 2 or 3 times when Green had his man beat deep. Those were easy touchdowns if they connect.

Can't you go back and look at every game by any team and find missed throws that would have lead to points? Weird way to look at the game.

[Stray]

No matter what happens with this drive, I don't want them to get the ball back with much time. If they get in hail mary range that's trouble.

[New York Red]

LOL ... a penalty on 3rd and 1. Of course. And then a sack. Yep, this is the Bengals.

[Reds Fanatic]

Another huge penalty on Gresham May have just blown the game

[Reds Freak]

Speaking of infuriating, I give you Jermaine Gresham.

[Hillsdale87]

Unfortunate time for Gresham to pick up his weekly penalty

[Stray]

Man Gresham has killed two drives today.

[Ohayou]

Way to go, Reggie.

[Reds Fanatic]

Great blitz by Nelson

[New York Red]

Nice punt!

[New York Red]

Redemption time for Nugent.

[New York Red]

YES! :eek:

[Stray]

What a game!

[Reds Freak]

That is a humongous win on the road.

Side note...this was mentioned last week, but Vontaze Burfict sure does love to play this game. What a pickup last year.

[Brutus]

Ho hum, another great game for Dalton that he won't be given any credit for by some.

[Stray]

I was about to be upset when we hung onto that last TO, but saving it for the FG was the right call.

Great clock management...from my Bengals?! :beerme:

[Reds Freak]

Ho hum, another great game for Dalton that he won't be given any credit for by some.

24-34, 372 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INT, 135.9. Sure he missed a couple of throws on the one drive but the guy is a winner.

[Yachtzee]

I can't believe Marvin Lewis had two challenges to that went his way.

[traderumor]

That was a good NFL game, which I was saying win or lose. Both offenses were giving the D's fits. Nugent made some of those long distance game winners with the Bucks, now one for the Bengals. And with yards to spare.

Jermaine Grisham needs to buy him a drink or two.

[Brutus]

24-34, 372 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INT, 135.9. Sure he missed a couple of throws on the one drive but the guy is a winner.

Indeed. As they said on the broadcast, the Bengals lead the NFL in 80+ yard drives this season. Mediocre QBs don't consistently lead teams on 80 and 90-yard drives.

[New York Red]

24-34, 372 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INT, 135.9. Sure he missed a couple of throws on the one drive but the guy is a winner.
He had a great game. This Andy Dalton can lead us to a Super Bowl, no doubt about it.

[Brutus]

That was a good NFL game, which I was saying win or lose. Both offenses were giving the D's fits. Nugent made some of those long distance game winners with the Bucks, now one for the Bengals. And with yards to spare.

Jermaine Grisham needs to buy him a drink or two.

That was frustrating. Grisham on that second to last drive giveth and he taketh away. He's a great player, but the guy just needs to keep his head on straight.

[Wonderful Monds]

Oh. My. God.

If the Jets pull this out, I don't know if I've ever seen a player more single handedly lose a game as that Pat special teamer just did.

[Reds Freak]

Oh. My. God.

If the Jets pull this out, I don't know if I've ever seen a player more single handedly lose a game as that Pat special teamer just did.

Haha I'm confused.

[Wonderful Monds]

Haha I'm confused.

Jets missed a FG on 4th down in OT that would've won it. Pats player got an unsportsmanlike penalty to give them a new set of downs.

And the Jets just won.

[Reds Freak]

Jets missed a FG on 4th down in OT that would've won it. Pats player got an unsportsmanlike penalty to give them a new set of downs.

And the Jets just won.

Unsportsmanlike penalty for pushing an opponent into the pile? I've never seen that called, apparently it's a new rule. I don't even know how the officials saw that in the scrum.

[Wonderful Monds]

Unsportsmanlike penalty for pushing an opponent into the pile? I've never seen that called, apparently it's a new rule. I don't even know how the officials saw that in the scrum.

Yep that was it. That was literally the game changer. Guess its a new rule this year.

[redhawkfish]

Unsportsmanlike penalty for pushing an opponent into the pile? I've never seen that called, apparently it's a new rule. I don't even know how the officials saw that in the scrum.

He pushed his own player, not an opponent. I have never heard of the call before.

[The Operator]

I don't think there's any denying Mr. Dalton had a good game today. Props!

[traderumor]

He pushed his own player, not an opponent. I have never heard of the call before.
New rule according to announcers.

[KoryMac5]

Dalton was very good today, knew AJ was open every play and kept throwing it up to him. Can't complain about his decision making today. The offense was on point with a nice flow to Gruden's game plan.

[New York Red]

Andy Dalton's season numbers, updated after today's game:

164-249, 65.9%, 11 TDs, 6 INTs, 1934 yards, QB Rating of 93.9

That'll work.

[Stray]

Steelers beat Baltimore so we have a two game lead in the division now. Everyone else is under .500.

[Ohayou]

Second straight player of the week honors for Dalton?

[traderumor]

Steelers beat Baltimore so we have a two game lead in the division now. Everyone else is under .500.Yea, looks like the Browns returned to being the Browns. That was some hot streak.

[Ohayou]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXDbeCGCEAAe3K_.png:small

[KoryMac5]

Bengals look like they will be losing Hall for the foreseeable future. Huge loss for this D, and 2nd time in 3 yrs that Hall has suffered an Achilles injury. Maybe Ghee or Kirkpatrick can step up. If not place a call to Antoine Winfield to guage his interest.

[KoryMac5]

Confirmed, done for the season torn Achilles tendon.

[Joseph]

Confirmed, done for the season torn Achilles tendon.

Tough break. I like Hall.

[The Operator]

Confirmed, done for the season torn Achilles tendon.I like Leon Hall, but I can't help but think The Bengals kept the wrong guy when they let Johnathan Joseph leave as a free agent.

[Benihana]

Oh. My. God.

If the Jets pull this out, I don't know if I've ever seen a player more single handedly lose a game as that Pat special teamer just did.

Jermaine Gresham came close today. Fortunately for us, we didn't actually lose despite his efforts.

I'm not a Dalton fan, but this was by far his best game IMO. He was terrific today. If he plays like this normally, this team can win a Super Bowl.

[Benihana]

I like Leon Hall, but I can't help but think The Bengals kept the wrong guy when they let Johnathan Joseph leave as a free agent.

They should have kept both.

[Benihana]

By the way, with four days before the trade deadline, the Bengals should call up Green Bay and offer Gresham for their best CB Shields, who shut down Gordon today and AJ against the Bengals. Win-win for both teams, with Cobb out for the year and Finley getting taken off on a stretcher, they need weapons for Rodgers. And with Hall out for the year (and maybe longer), Bengals desperately need CB help. I may offer to throw in Kirkpatrick or a 4th rounder. Kirkpatrick is an awful bust.

[Wonderful Monds]

I like Gresham, he's done well this year. The offense needs him.

[Benihana]

I like Gresham, he's done well this year. The offense needs him.

If it weren't for Kirkpatrick, Gresham would be the worst first round pick of the last decade.

Drafted one spot ahead of Dez Bryant (who I really, really wanted) and taken as the first TE in a draft that featured Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, and (gulp) Aaron Hernandez? The guy is the anti-clutch, today's game was the perfect example. Even Marvin said after the game "Gresham had to go to the locker room in the middle of the game to clear his head. If you guys (the media) can figure him out, let me know."

That tells you about all you need to know about the guy. Million dollar raw talent, two cent head. Translates to not a very good player.

[Redsfaithful]

Gronk had health problems coming out of college, Hernandez was a known head case, and Jimmy Graham played one year of college football. They all had issues.

Gresham hasn't panned out how I hoped, but he's a useful TE.

Declaring Kirkpatrick a bust is really premature. But I do think we'll have a good sense pretty soon, because he's going to have to play now.

[The DARK]

People disappointed in Kirkpatrick are absolutely judging prematurely. Almost all new cornerbacks in this league do poorly in their first season, including Patrick Peterson, who was terrible outside of special teams. Couple that with injuries and a trio of backs performing exceptionally well, and there's no reason we should have expected much yet. Now's his time to shine, and I bet he'll play beyond expectations.

[usfldan]

If it weren't for Kirkpatrick, Gresham would be the worst first round pick of the last decade.

Chris Perry? Keith Rivers? David Pollack? And yet you think he's worthy of being traded for a #1 CB.

[Stray]

I like Leon Hall, but I can't help but think The Bengals kept the wrong guy when they let Johnathan Joseph leave as a free agent.

If Hall coulda just stayed healthy...he's really good when he plays. I think I saw PFF had him as a top 5 CB in the league this year, and by far the best on our team.

[New York Red]

I'm on the Gresham bandwagon. He had some drops last year and a bonehead penalty today, but overall he's been pretty solid. And he always gets extra yardage after the catch when it looks like there's nothing there. I love the combination of him and Eifert for the next however many years.

[Stray]

I'm on the Gresham bandwagon. He had some drops last year and a bonehead penalty today, but overall he's been pretty solid. And he always gets extra yardage after the catch when it looks like there's nothing there. I love the combination of him and Eifert for the next however many years.

Agree he's been pretty good this year. He's good for one huge penalty per game, but he's improved so much as a blocker from last year. In pass protection and run blocking he's been outstanding.

[HeatherC1212]

So I've been up in Detroit this weekend for a skating event at Joe Louis Arena and have gotten a kick out of the fact that I got to whoop it up and yell WHO DEY! with fellow Bengals fans who came up for the game here. We saw Bengals fans on the People Mover yesterday, walking to lunch today, walking around the city, and there was a tailgating group of mixed fans playing Cornhole in one area. It was really fun and totally hilarious to follow the game along with everyone else today. :D I was following it on my phone since we were at the skating event all day although I did see the first TD pass of the game to AJ while we were eating lunch in Greektown. I saw the news about the game winning field goal while in our arena seats and you could kind of hear everyone there just sigh when the game ended, LOL :laugh: (We quietly cheered for our guys though!)

Who Dey! Great win today!! :D

[RedTeamGo!]

I did see the first TD pass of the game to AJ while we were eating lunch in Greektown.


Where did you eat in Greektown?

I grew up in Toledo, used to go to Greektown often. My favorite is Pegasus Tavernas.

[Hoosier Red]

I like Leon Hall, but I can't help but think The Bengals kept the wrong guy when they let Johnathan Joseph leave as a free agent.

Hind sight is 20/20.
IIRC, the reason they were uncomfortable about giving Joseph the long term contract extension was a concern about his health.

Since the Bengals declined to sign Joseph, He's played 15,14, and 7 games(so far this season). Hall has played 9, 14, and 5 games(and that will be all for this season).

More than anything I think it points to the folly in trying to predict future health by looking at past health.

I always think that one reason I'd shy away from picking a college running back high, is that the reason they're a highly thought of draft pick they've probably been healthy for four years, which only means they're due to be injured.

[RiverRat13]

If I remember correctly, where the Bengals screwed up with Joseph was the offseason before he became a free agent. I remember John Thornton saying he was shocked at how little Joseph was asking for but the Bengals decided to roll the dice and let him play out his rookie deal anyway.

The Bengals have to either find a competent corner through a trade or roll with Kirkpatrick. Adam Jones has to be a 30-35 snap guy, not a 60 snap guy. And when I say a trade, I'm talking a realistic deal (like a 4th or 5th round pick for a solid guy near the end of his contract), not trading for Revis or something else outlandish.

If Dalton plays like he did the last two weeks, the Bengals can play with anyone.

[bucksfan2]

If I remember correctly, where the Bengals screwed up with Joseph was the offseason before he became a free agent. I remember John Thornton saying he was shocked at how little Joseph was asking for but the Bengals decided to roll the dice and let him play out his rookie deal anyway.

The Bengals rolled the dice with the corner they thought would be better going forward. Once they didn't sign Joseph in the offseason that ship had sailed. Hindsight is always 20/20 in the NFL. At time time I don't think anyone really had a problem with Hall being picked as the CB to keep. I also think it would have been a little risky to invest heavily in two starting CB's.


The Bengals have to either find a competent corner through a trade or roll with Kirkpatrick. Adam Jones has to be a 30-35 snap guy, not a 60 snap guy. And when I say a trade, I'm talking a realistic deal (like a 4th or 5th round pick for a solid guy near the end of his contract), not trading for Revis or something else outlandish.

I heard Artrell Hawkins on the radio saying that Kirkpatrick doesn't really fit into Zimmer's system. He said that had he been in a Tampa 2 style defense he would be a starting QB now. The one think that I was critical with regarding the draft this past season was the pick of Hunt when a defensive back was of need. Hunt may end up being a great player, but the Bengals needed help in the secondary. I don't expect to see a trade to get a CB. I think the late bye week hurts the Bengals in that they won't have the extra week to work in a new CB until after the trade deadline.


If Dalton plays like he did the last two weeks, the Bengals can play with anyone.

Dalton has been good the past few games. Beating a good Lions team on the road when Calvin Johnson is going off is nothing to sneeze at.

As for all the hindsight mashing, pick one NFL team and tell me where they have made all the right choices. You can point to taking Gresham over Bryant, Gronk, etc. but look at all the teams who had shots at Adkins, Dunlap, Johnson, Peko, etc. The Bengals have done a pretty good job drafting lately. Like every other NFL team there will be hits and misses, the key is to have more hits than misses.

[Sea Ray]

Did you ever think you'd live to see the day that Marvin outcoached someone? Well that's exactly what happened yesterday. The Lions easily could have run out the clock yesterday and taken the game into OT but they had Stafford continue to drop back and dink, dunk and most importantly throw incompletions. He'd have been better off to take a sack or two. It looked like they were content to run the clock out until Marvin called his 2nd TO. At that point Detroit got the 1st down and proceeded to try to throw the ball, playing right into the Bengals hands. Score one for Marvin

[traderumor]

Yea, I was a little surprised to see them try to score with bad field position. Perhaps they were thinking "hey, its the Bengals, they'll do something stupid," completely forgetting that "hey, its the Lions...."

[Hoosier Red]

Did you ever think you'd live to see the day that Marvin outcoached someone? Well that's exactly what happened yesterday. The Lions easily could have run out the clock yesterday and taken the game into OT but they had Stafford continue to drop back and dink, dunk and most importantly throw incompletions. He'd have been better off to take a sack or two. It looked like they were content to run the clock out until Marvin called his 2nd TO. At that point Detroit got the 1st down and proceeded to try to throw the ball, playing right into the Bengals hands. Score one for Marvin

Well to be fair, they were probably assuming the punter kicks the ball more than 28 yards. If the Bengals have to start that last drive from their own 35 it's a completely different story.

Though I agree, especially with my hindsightfocals well tuned, after the incomplete pass on 2nd & 4, when Johnson and Nelson got tangled up, there was little to gain and a lot to lose from throwing the ball.

[Sea Ray]

Well to be fair, they were probably assuming the punter kicks the ball more than 28 yards. If the Bengals have to start that last drive from their own 35 it's a completely different story.

Though I agree, especially with my hindsightfocals well tuned, after the incomplete pass on 2nd & 4, when Johnson and Nelson got tangled up, there was little to gain and a lot to lose from throwing the ball.

No question the poor punt was part of what sunk them but they didn't even have to be in a position where they need a good punt

[bucksfan2]

One thing I noticed in yesterdays game that surprised me. There was a crossing pattern where Jones and Johnson's feet got tangled up and Calvin went to the ground. It was the proper no call and Stafford's pass fell incomplete. Stafford then proceeded to spend the next 20 or so seconds complaining and begging to the refs for a flag. That made the Lions get to the line late and get a snap off right before the play clock expired. It was something you don't see the good QB's in the game do, it may be what separates Stafford from being an elite type QB.

[New York Red]

According to Hobson's tweet a moment ago, Andy Dalton has the 2nd best road winning percentage among all active quarterbacks, behind only Tom Brady.

:eek:

[Wonderful Monds]

If it weren't for Kirkpatrick, Gresham would be the worst first round pick of the last decade.

Drafted one spot ahead of Dez Bryant (who I really, really wanted) and taken as the first TE in a draft that featured Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, and (gulp) Aaron Hernandez? The guy is the anti-clutch, today's game was the perfect example. Even Marvin said after the game "Gresham had to go to the locker room in the middle of the game to clear his head. If you guys (the media) can figure him out, let me know."

That tells you about all you need to know about the guy. Million dollar raw talent, two cent head. Translates to not a very good player.
That's a pretty ridiculous assessment, IMO. He's played well this year and has fought for yards pretty effectively whenever he gets the ball in his hands. Penalties aside he's doing a pretty decent job.

Sounds like you just don't like the guy as a person for some reason.

[KoryMac5]

Dez Bryant would have been a terrible pick here. Loved his talent but he had major maturity issues. He and Ocho in the same locker room would have been nightmarish.

I do agree though that Kirkpatrick has been a bust.

[Benihana]

That's a pretty ridiculous assessment, IMO. He's played well this year and has fought for yards pretty effectively whenever he gets the ball in his hands. Penalties aside he's doing a pretty decent job.

Sounds like you just don't like the guy as a person for some reason.

No. I have no beef with him as a person. I think he has been extremely disappointing as a first round pick. First round TEs are supposed to be studs. Guys like Jeremy Shockey, Heath Miller, and Todd Heap.

Meanwhile Gresham, taken ahead of Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski, has turned into Marcedes Lewis.

[HeatherC1212]

Where did you eat in Greektown?

I grew up in Toledo, used to go to Greektown often. My favorite is Pegasus Tavernas.

We saw that restaurant there but didn't get a chance to go this weekend. I can't remember the name of it but it was something like Palmenti's Pizza. It was right across from the Greektown Casino (the one that has the Coldstone and Five Guys in it) and nearly right across from the Pegasus. It was fantastic food. We also ate at Loco's earlier in the weekend (located somewhat near there but around a different corner from the Casino) and their food was amazing too (Mexican food). :)

[HeatherC1212]

BTW-I watched the local Detroit sports TV show late Sunday night after we got back from the arena and got a kick out of the announcers talking about how the Lions "always try to take a step forward but they need to start beating the good teams to be taken more seriously". I thought to myself wow, we're the GOOD team in that scenario instead of the team trying to take the step forward. It was a little unsettling to be honest with you...I'm not used to being a fan of the 'good team', LOL :laugh:

[wolfboy]

No. I have no beef with him as a person. I think he has been extremely disappointing as a first round pick. First round TEs are supposed to be studs. Guys like Jeremy Shockey, Heath Miller, and Todd Heap.

Meanwhile Gresham, taken ahead of Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski, has turned into Marcedes Lewis.

Gresham had more receiving yards in his first three seasons than Miller or Heap did during their first three seasons. Graham is just a different animal in a different offense, but everyone had multiple chances to take him.

[medford]

Its arguments like these that (insert favorite team) can't win. Why didn't everyone take Tom Brady in the first round, or the 2nd, or the third, fourth or fifth? Why didn't everyone take Joe Montana in the 1st or 2nd? Why didn't everyone take TJ howdoyouspellyournameazilli in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd..... you get the point.

Hernandez had red flags for character issues, issues that have sported their ugly head this season. At the time, the Bengals didn't really need another character issue.

Gronk had injury issues, issues that have arisen at various points in time during his career.

Graham had played 1 season of football.

Meanwhile, both Ed Dickson and Tony Moeki were selected b/w Gronk in the 2nd and Graham in the 3rd; why don't we complain about the Bengals not selecting them?

Say what you will about the NFL's pro bowl (and obviously its a less than ideal way to compare the success of players) but anytime your 1st round picks lands on a pro bowl roster while wearing your uniform, you've done a good job in the crap shoot that is the draft.

[Stray]

The Jets are allowing a league best 3.1 yards per rush and still have a top 10 pass defense. They're also 3rd in the league in sacks. We're gonna need to win an ugly game on Sunday.

[medford]

In my ideal world, the Bengals force a couple of turnovers, get to Geno Smith early and often, build up a 21 point lead by half time and use the last 1/3 of the game turning around and handing off to BJGE to ice out the win, then turn around in a quick week w/ players as "fresh" as possible in a short turnaround and lean on Gio Bernard and the passing game to pull out roadie.

Bengals games rarely play out in my "ideal world". I'd take an "ugly win" (and no injuries) and run with it.

[MWM]

I honestly have no idea what to make of this year's Bengals. There are times I watch and think they can beat anyone, and times I think they could lose to anyone. On the one hand, they're 5-2 and in one of those losses they had a 17 point second half lead. They really should be 6-1. They've also beaten Green Bay and New England. And they've found ways to win these games in the last minute that they would have invariably lost in the past.

On the other hand, another week went by and another double digit second half lead was erased forcing them to pull one out in dramatic fashion. I don't know how sustainable that is. They seem to play down to their competition and not know how to keep the foot on the gas once they have a lead. Seems like the offense gets very predictable once they're out front.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team continues to gel and finishes 12-4. I also wouldn't be surprised if they start losing some of these close games and wind up 9-7. I feel like I have less a finger on the pulse of this team than any I can remember.

[traderumor]

The Jets are allowing a league best 3.1 yards per rush and still have a top 10 pass defense. They're also 3rd in the league in sacks. We're gonna need to win an ugly game on Sunday.
That's ok, we can't run the ball anyhow.

[Sea Ray]

I honestly have no idea what to make of this year's Bengals. There are times I watch and think they can beat anyone, and times I think they could lose to anyone. On the one hand, they're 5-2 and in one of those losses they had a 17 point second half lead. They really should be 6-1. They've also beaten Green Bay and New England. And they've found ways to win these games in the last minute that they would have invariably lost in the past.

On the other hand, another week went by and another double digit second half lead was erased forcing them to pull one out in dramatic fashion. I don't know how sustainable that is. They seem to play down to their competition and not know how to keep the foot on the gas once they have a lead. Seems like the offense gets very predictable once they're out front.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team continues to gel and finishes 12-4. I also wouldn't be surprised if they start losing some of these close games and wind up 9-7. I feel like I have less a finger on the pulse of this team than any I can remember.

I agree with your thoughts that they could be a 12-4 team or a 9-7 team but given their schedule, I think they're very good to be 5-2. I understand you think they should have won at Chicago but they easily could have lost at either Buffalo or Detroit so I don't think I can go with we should be 6-1. It's the NFL and you win some of those close ones and you lose some. They've played some very likely playoff teams so far in Detroit, GB, NE and Chicago. Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Cleveland aren't slouches either. It's not like they've got KC Chief's schedule. With the possible exception of Minny there's no gimmes on this schedule. Every week will be a dogfight. Detroit is tough. There's not much we can do when they just throw it up to Megatron especially with no Leon Hall.

I think this is a team that can win a playoff game. I don't think they're headed to the Super Bowl but they're better than what we've had in this town since the Boomer days. They're 15-3 in the past 18 games.

[WMR]

Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong about Dalton.

I'm simply afraid that he will always struggle with consistency and his inability to throw a deep ball will end up a fatal flaw.

[Sea Ray]

Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong about Dalton.

I'm simply afraid that he will always struggle with consistency and his inability to throw a deep ball will end up a fatal flaw.

The deep ball bothers me. I hate seeing AJ wait for the ball when he's got a step on the defender

[Stray]

Just gonna toss out some 2012 numbers from QBs around the league on their deep ball.

These are passes 41+ yards.

Aaron Rodgers 1/7 0tds 1int
Drew Brees 5/7 2tds 0ints
Tom Brady 0/6
Peyton Manning 0/1
Andy Dalton 2/8 1td 1int

This fascination with his deep ball, or lack thereof, is mind boggling to me. QBs live between 10-20 yards. QBs don't complete a high % of deep balls, but when Dalton misses one it's the reason he'll never be a franchise QB.

RG3 and Flacco are probably the best deep passers in the league. Give me the guy that is accurate with checkdowns and between 10-20 yards. If there's an area I'd like him to improve it's his accuracy there. If he improves in other areas and never gets the deep ball we'll be just fine.

[nmculbreth]

Just gonna toss out some 2012 numbers from QBs around the league on their deep ball.

These are passes 41+ yards.

Aaron Rodgers 1/7 0tds 1int
Drew Brees 5/7 2tds 0ints
Tom Brady 0/6
Peyton Manning 0/1
Andy Dalton 2/8 1td 1int

This fascination with his deep ball, or lack thereof, is mind boggling to me. QBs live between 10-20 yards. QBs don't complete a high % of deep balls, but when Dalton misses one it's the reason he'll never be a franchise QB.

RG3 and Flacco are probably the best deep passers in the league. Give me the guy that is accurate with checkdowns and between 10-20 yards. If there's an area I'd like him to improve it's his accuracy there. If he improves in other areas and never gets the deep ball we'll be just fine.

I don't think anyone would argue that the ability to accurately throw short and intermediate balls is a more important skill than being able to throw the deep ball, which is why if Dalton can do that successfully he's going to be a very good QB for a long time. That being said I think in order to be viewed as an elite (top 5-7) QB you need to be able to do both and I think Dalton's lack of arm strength is going to keep him from ever being put in that tier of QBs.

In my mind last week's game was the perfect illustration of Andy Dalton's ceiling. He made good decisions and some great throws but there were a couple times where AJ had his man beat by a step or two and had to slow down to try to catch an underthrown pass, which brought the DB back into the play. On the first TD pass AJ was well past the defender but had to come back to get the underthrown ball but was still luckily able to take it to the house. It'll go down as an 82-yard TD pass but it wasn't a well thrown ball. The same thing happened a couple times in the second half and both balls ended up being incompletions.

It doesn't make Dalton a bad QB, but I'd certainly feel more comfortable with him if he had a better arm.

[Stray]

I don't think anyone would argue that the ability to accurately throw short and intermediate balls is a more important skill than being able to throw the deep ball, which is why if Dalton can do that successfully he's going to be a very good QB for a long time. That being said I think in order to be viewed as an elite (top 5-7) QB you need to be able to do both and I think Dalton's lack of arm strength is going to keep him from ever being put in that tier of QBs.

In my mind last week's game was the perfect illustration of Andy Dalton's ceiling. He made good decisions and some great throws but there were a couple times where AJ had his man beat by a step or two and had to slow down to try to catch an underthrown pass, which brought the DB back into the play. On the first TD pass AJ was well past the defender but had to come back to get the underthrown ball but was still luckily able to take it to the house. It'll go down as an 82-yard TD pass but it wasn't a well thrown ball. The same thing happened a couple times in the second half and both balls ended up being incompletions.

It doesn't make Dalton a bad QB, but I'd certainly feel more comfortable with him if he had a better arm.

Well yeah, in a perfect world he'd hit him in stride every time. I'd disagree that he's missing them because of his arm strength, he'll overthrow Green as often as he underthrows him. It's the accuracy on those passes that's lacking.

Heck, on passes 21+ yards last year Aaron Rodgers completed 39%. He has a big arm that's very accurate, those passes are just low percentage throws even to the best QBs in the league.

It's silly when he has a great game and people are pointing out a couple of missed chances. It happens everywhere.

[Yachtzee]

For all you lovers of the long ball, I give you one name: Jeff Blake. Great throwing long passes to Carl Pickens and Darnay Scott, terrible accuracy on short to intermediate passes. Very few QBs are the total package.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Well, at least the Bengals are on in Columbus this weekend instead of the Browns

[WMR]

For all you lovers of the long ball, I give you one name: Jeff Blake. Great throwing long passes to Carl Pickens and Darnay Scott, terrible accuracy on short to intermediate passes. Very few QBs are the total package.

I wish you would've responded to my hypo about Carson.

Blake threw a moon ball, wasn't particularly effective, nor were the rest of his throws.

[Yachtzee]

I wish you would've responded to my hypo about Carson.

Blake threw a moon ball, wasn't particularly effective, nor were the rest of his throws.

I've done the "what if" game about Palmer myself many times. I don't know that all of Palmer's issues arose from the hit he took from Kimo Von Oelhoffen. I seem to recall when he was drafted that one of the draft gurus was talking about a psychological survey given to the draftees and the results on Palmer were that he lacked key psychological attributes that were key to being a leader. At the time I felt it was ridiculous. But then a few years after the injury, when he was back to being 100% fit, I began noticing problems with his demeanor on the field. It wasn't just the fact that he seemed to rush his throws. He just didn't seem to exercise much control in the huddle. If he wasn't on the same page with Chad Johnson or TJ or TO or whoever, he'd get frustrated, but he wouldn't address it with the player. He'd walk off muttering to himself. By the time Palmer left, I felt that maybe that draft guru had a point.

Meanwhile, ever since Dalton has arrived, he has always seemed to talk it out with guys after a busted play and never seems willing to give up when faced with adversity. My point is that sometimes being a good or great QB doesn't always come down to being the most physically gifted. Sometimes it comes down to having a good head on your shoulders and a drive to do whatever you can to win the game. If Dalton were a baseball player, he wouldn't be the fireballer who strikes out 10 batters a game. He'd be the crafty lefthander who uses changing speeds and control to different parts of the plate to get guys out. He might have a bad outing here and there, but he's usually going to do well enough to win the game. He is what he is.

[WMR]

Yacht... Yer killin me bro. :(

Plz actually respond.

[Hoosier Red]

I think everyone here agrees about Dalton more than they're letting on.

Those worried about his lack of arm strength as evidenced on the deep ball, also worry about how it will impact the throws from 10-20 yards that every quarterback needs to make.

I think anyone who has concerns about Dalton's arm strength will concede that if he is able to complete passes at the % we've seen the last two weeks he'll be successful by any definition.

However the concern is that he has not completed passes at that high of a percentage previously, and if he does not complete them at this high of a percentage(65-70% range) then his other skills won't make up for a more average completion percentage.

[bucksfan2]

I think everyone here agrees about Dalton more than they're letting on.

Those worried about his lack of arm strength as evidenced on the deep ball, also worry about how it will impact the throws from 10-20 yards that every quarterback needs to make.

I think anyone who has concerns about Dalton's arm strength will concede that if he is able to complete passes at the % we've seen the last two weeks he'll be successful by any definition.

However the concern is that he has not completed passes at that high of a percentage previously, and if he does not complete them at this high of a percentage(65-70% range) then his other skills won't make up for a more average completion percentage.

I think the arm strength issue is very overstated. Andy doesn't have the greatest arm in the NFL, but it has been noted that Peyton Manning's arm strength is the weakest in football right now. His arm strength was strong enough to get AJ Green the ball last week for a TD. A lot of the under thrown deep balls lead to PI calls because the WR sees the ball and comes back for it while the DB doesn't.

I think Andy's arm is adequate to succeed in the NFL. Its adequate enough to make the playoffs in his first 2 seasons in the NFL. Its adequate enough to have a winning NFL record over 2+ seasons. I think that the best QB's in the NFL make winning plays. Plays that don't really show up on the stat sheet. Plays that may go down as a 15 yard reception but don't tell the whole story. Sometimes its making the right read, or moving a safety to complete a pass over the middle. The play that Andy made that lead to the Bernard TD against Buffalo was a heck of a play on his part that gets overlooked because Bernard made a great play as well.

I think the people who focus on Andy's arm strength are missing a young QB who is doing some pretty impressive things.

[medford]

The most important thing a QB can do, in terms of throwing the football, is hitting his guy in stride. Putting the pass in an area where he doesn't have to slow down, alter his body, come back to the ball, etc... so once he grabs he can continue up the field. As noted, Andy struggles on his accuracy on long balls, struggles even more putting the ball in position the reciever can run under in stride and continue on to the end zone (as noted above Jeff Blake was one of the best at that), however, Andy's been very good on passes in the 20 yard and less range of hitting his guys in stride.

In Andy's first season, they were 24th in the league. Last season, the Bengals were 16th in the league in YAC. This season, they're 4th. A big part of that is having Gio on the roster and utilizing a running back on catches out of the back field, afterall, running backs are more likely to pick up YAC than a reciever just by the nature of your average screen pass setting up an easy 5 yards of YAC (or more) before a defender enters the picture. With that said, hitting his recievers in stride on the 20 yard and less passers were not only where Andy struggled early this season, but where Gruden struggled as a play caller. Andy was particularly bad in that area vs the Browns, forcing his guys to make adjustments to passes that allowed the defense an extra step or two to make the counter adjustment and limit the yards after catch.

The long pass wasn't were Joe Montana and Steve Young made their living, they made their living, heck the west coast offense revitalized football by focusing on completing those 5-10 yard slants to Jerry Rice and John Taylor or a swing pass to Roger Craig and letting them pick up an additional 5-10 yards (or more) after catching the pass. This is a reason why passing attacks have flouished in the NFL in the last decade plus. During the 70s, the general rule of passing was a WR fought it out with a defender for 10-15 yards down the field while the pass flew 20 yards or so and if you were really, really good you hit 50% of those passes. Today, the rules limit the amount of contact a defender can give a reciever to a 5 yard window. Break thru that window, catch a short pass in stride and continue on for another 5-10 yards. If you're not completing 65%+ of those passes, you're sub par.

Andy doesn't need a huge arm to be successful in the NFL. Just having the threat of AJ out there and occasionally showing that threat is enough for oppossing teams to respect the threat of a deep pass. What Andy needs is to complete 75% of his passes in the 10 yard and less range, in stride so his WRs & RBs can turn that 5 yard slant or screen pass into a 10 yard gain. Its what this offense is built for; and its what Andy has been really good at the last 3 weeks, combined with Gruden gearing the offense more towards that direction.

[Sea Ray]

As noted, Andy struggles on his accuracy on long balls, struggles even more putting the ball in position the reciever can run under in stride and continue on to the end zone (as noted above Jeff Blake was one of the best at that), however, Andy's been very good on passes in the 20 yard and less range of hitting his guys in stride.



Jeff Blake was known for his long ball but his short passes were not accurate at all. That's why he struggled as a starting QB in the NFL. When Bruce Coslet FINALLY benched him in favor of Boomer, the offense took off. In addition, Blake's long passes were not powerful bullets like you see coming out of the hands of Flacco or A-Rod. They were well timed lobs with great arcs

[CmdrCody]

Anderson really only had a completion percentage that high twice in the 1970s. After his big years in 74-75, he had a number of years which would be considered dreadful by today's standards and he likely would have been cut. In 1978, he only completed 54% of his passes, throwing 10 TDs to 22 Ints. But Paul Brown stuck with him and he developed into a more consistent passer later in his career. People seem to remember the Ken Anderson highs but forget his lows. I imagine if fantasy football and the internet existed back then, Bengals fans would have been screaming for his head in the late 70s.

With Dalton only in his 3rd year, I don't view him as a finished product. If he can improve with age and continue to win football games, the Bengals would be wise to keep him. I'd rather have that than the QB carousel the Bengals had in the past. Or look at the Browns and their constant drafting and dumping of QBs. I'd rather the Bengals look to getting another receiver to complement Green instead of looking to replace Dalton.

Wasn't 78 the year Anderson broke his thumb on a helmet and played hurt most the season? That was the reason for his poor numbers.

[New York Red]

I honestly have no idea what to make of this year's Bengals. There are times I watch and think they can beat anyone, and times I think they could lose to anyone. On the one hand, they're 5-2 and in one of those losses they had a 17 point second half lead. They really should be 6-1. They've also beaten Green Bay and New England. And they've found ways to win these games in the last minute that they would have invariably lost in the past.

On the other hand, another week went by and another double digit second half lead was erased forcing them to pull one out in dramatic fashion. I don't know how sustainable that is. They seem to play down to their competition and not know how to keep the foot on the gas once they have a lead. Seems like the offense gets very predictable once they're out front.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team continues to gel and finishes 12-4. I also wouldn't be surprised if they start losing some of these close games and wind up 9-7. I feel like I have less a finger on the pulse of this team than any I can remember.
The Bengals have played four teams who are currently either in first place in their division, or would be in first place if not for their losses to the Bengals. They're #2 in the league in combined winning % of the teams they've beaten, so it's not a case of just beating bad teams. The Bengals have, IMO, been the better team in every one of their seven games. They choked at Chicago and just didn't show up against the Browns, but have looked very strong overall. We must be watching different teams, because I see nothing to indicate even the slightest possibility of this ending up a 9-7 team.

[Tony Cloninger]

Wasn't 78 the year Anderson broke his thumb on a helmet and played hurt most the season? That was the reason for his poor numbers.

Yes, against Tampa Bay. John Reaves started and he had no feel for his passes at all. He was just a big arm.

Throw in the fact that Paul Brown had traded Lemar Parrish (Wanted more money) and Coy Bacon (Clubhouse lawyer).... traded or cut John McDaniel, good WR and leaving no backup for Curtis and Brooks. Bob Trumpy, Tommy Casanova retired. No real veteran leadership at all and Paul brown overrode Bill Johnson in many personnel decisions.... those were 2 long years before Brown finally realized he needed to hire someone tougher and give him more autonomy, as much as Paul could possibly give...in Forrest Gregg.

[New York Red]

Gonna be another tough one today. I think the outcome will hinge largely on how we handle the Jets D-Line.

[Stray]

Nice start

[New York Red]

The Bengals have receivers open all over the field on every play. Dalton should have a huge game today.

[The Operator]

Offense is making it look easy so far. I like!

[New York Red]

Wow, making it look easy!

[Brutus]

Dalton is really feeling it right now. He's making it look really easy.

[Stray]

Dalton is managing the offense up and down the field with ease.

[MWM]

Dalton looking great today against a good defense.

[The Operator]

Where did this explosive offense come from?? Wow.

[The Operator]

The completion to Green was a thing of beauty. Couldn't have put the ball in a better spot.

[Stray]

Holy crap

[Brutus]

Hard to have a more perfect quarter in the NFL than the Bengals just had. Hopefully they can make this drive a touchdown and 21-0 lead to start the second.

[Gizmo]

14 point lead, seen those disappear in less time than 3 quarters, gotta continue to push.

[Wonderful Monds]

Uh

[Wonderful Monds]

I thought the ground couldn't cause a fumble?

[BuckeyeRed27]

That's getting over turned

[Gizmo]

down by contact(?), TD then fumble are what I saw.

[Brutus]

1. His knee was down before he ever got to the goal line, but

2. Even if it weren't, the ball broke the plane, but

3. Even if it didn't, the ground can't cause a fumble

Thus, that play is getting overturned one way or another

[Wonderful Monds]

1. His knee was down before he ever got to the goal line, but

2. Even if it weren't, the ball broke the plane, but

3. Even if it didn't, the ground can't cause a fumble

Thus, that play is getting overturned one way or another

Man, literally everything about that call was blown.

[Wonderful Monds]

Didn't work out, but I liked the call. Gotta execute better there.

[The Operator]

I'm pretty much over BJGE at this point.

Take the points, Marvin!

[Gizmo]

3 plays and can't get 1 yard....

[Stray]

I don't mind the call to go for it on 4th down there. Gotta be able to get that yard.

[Brutus]

I liked going for it there, but I didn't like the third down call. Should have made sure they got the first down on 3rd & 4th down then you'd still have four downs to punch it in the endzone from inside the one.

[The Operator]

The defense is firing on all cylinders right now.

1 total yard of offense for The Jets in the 1st quarter.

[Wonderful Monds]

I liked going for it there, but I didn't like the third down call. Should have made sure they got the first down on 3rd & 4th down then you'd still have four downs to punch it in the endzone from inside the one.

I wonder if maybe letting Peko have the ball on those plays once might work. He could probably muscle his way through without fumbling it.

[New York Red]

Eifert needs to catch that pass for a touchdown. Dalton couldn't have thrown it any better. Also, I'm not a fan of Peko being in the backfield. Drop the gimmicks and run a real play.

[Brutus]

I wonder if maybe letting Peko have the ball on those plays once might work. He could probably muscle his way through without fumbling it.

True. I actually think when you need inches, you're better off just letting the qb sneak it rather than giving the defense time to get penetration.

[Wonderful Monds]

Well, I guess we've been due for one of those.

[CTA513]

3 plays and can't get 1 yard....

Short yardage plays like that is why I would have liked them to keep a fullback on the roster instead of 4 TEs.

[New York Red]

Nobody can go from looking dominant to terrible as quickly as the Bengals can, haha.

[Wonderful Monds]

WHOA. Nasty hit by Rey there.

[New York Red]

The Jets can't do anything against the Bengals D. The 14 we have now might be enough to win this one.

[RiverRat13]

True. I actually think when you need inches, you're better off just letting the qb sneak it rather than giving the defense time to get penetration.

I don't know why teams don't just do it every time.

[RiverRat13]

So many developing weapons on this offense.

[Gizmo]

okiedoke defense. Used to seeing that from the Bengals, not against them.

[New York Red]

Dalton at 225 yards already, with 6:30 left in the first half. His passing 709 yards in the last two weeks were the most in the NFL.

[Brutus]

This is an impressive response drive... really, really need to punch it in the endzone, though.

[New York Red]

Marvelous Marvin!

[RiverRat13]

Hard to believe Marvin Jones was a 5th round pick.

[Wonderful Monds]

Maaaaaaaaybe a little offensive PI there, but hey. Nailed it.

[Brutus]

Jones has become a legitimate weapon, no doubt.

Great response, Cinci.

[Gizmo]

Biggest lead of the season? Hope they don't sit on it and watch it peter away in the 2nd half. A TD drive here to end the half and another to open the 2nd half could see the Jets back within a score before we touch the ball again. Gotta continue to play the game.

[Gizmo]

already looking less aggressive on defense.

[Stray]

Good to see Rey sit up under his own power. That was a violent hit.

[New York Red]

Tate!!

[Wonderful Monds]

Hey, Brandon Tate did something good!

[New York Red]

If we can just get three out of this, it would be huge. Especially momentum-wise heading into halftime.

[Gizmo]

No mercy!

[Gizmo]

two toes!

[Wonderful Monds]

Damn, what has gotten into Marvin Jones.

[New York Red]

What a day for Marvin Jones!!!

[Gizmo]

Megatron Jr.

[New York Red]

Andy Dalton's first half QB Rating: 121.0

He is on fire lately.

[nmculbreth]

Really impressive display by the offense. The Jets have been good defensively all season, but Dalton has picked them apart.

[Brutus]

I heart you, Marvin Jones

[New York Red]

This offense today is 1988-esque.