2013 Bengals Playoff Edition Discussion (Part 4)

[Boss-Hog]

Please use this thread for continued discussion of the 2013 Bengals.

[WMR]

My father and I will be in section 134, hoping to see history made...

[OldRightHander]

Section 311 here.

[OldRightHander]

The last time I was at a Bengals playoff game was 1982 against the Jets. Forgettable game.

[LoganBuck]

My father and I will be in section 134, hoping to see history made...

I checked online yesterday, and I would have been in the same section. My wife then said I wasn't allowed to go. :thumbdown::duel:

[Sea Ray]

Let's hope this thread turns out to be a very long one...:thumbup:

[WMR]

I checked online yesterday, and I would have been in the same section. My wife then said I wasn't allowed to go. :thumbdown::duel:

Bengals.com or stubhub? How much were they gonna run you total?

We're in row 7, bought off stubhub, about $20.00 over face plus $10 fee... pretty happy with that price and location, cheaper than just about anything else even close to similar on stubhub.

[WMR]

The last time I was at a Bengals playoff game was 1982 against the Jets. Forgettable game.

2005 Kimo von Aholehoffen for me. What a miserable game that ended up being...

[medford]

FWIW, I've been checking ticketmaster.com for ticket availability. I won't be attending, but I was interested to see what the "best seat available" was. Its been altenating thru the day, going from top of the 3rd deck, 50 yard line, to section 151 (which is on the south endzone where the seats rise to a point) then back to top of the 3rd deck, but now on the 40 yard line section, back to section 151, but up a row, then back to top of the 3rd deck, 40 yard line.....

Seems like they're moving a decent chunk as the day progresses.

[LoganBuck]

Bengals.com or stubhub? How much were they gonna run you total?

We're in row 7, bought off stubhub, about $20.00 over face plus $10 fee... pretty happy with that price and location, cheaper than just about anything else even close to similar on stubhub.

Bengals.com I priced 3 tickets, would have been ~row 15, $317.

[LoganBuck]

Just looked again best available would be in 341 row 34, 3 tickets would run $288.

I am curious what did you have to spend for those tickets on Stubhub? $135?

[Benihana]

Wolverine Zoltan Mesko is the new Bengals punter

[Yachtzee]

Wolverine Zoltan Mesko is the new Bengals punter

ZOLTAN!

http://notshortfunsized.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/zoltan1.jpg

[OSUredsFAN]

I got section 345 row 6 yesterday. Can't wait!!!

[WMR]

Just looked again best available would be in 341 row 34, 3 tickets would run $288.

I am curious what did you have to spend for those tickets on Stubhub? $135?

Yep.

[medford]

So I did a check on ticketmaster this morning, under the "best 2 seats available" option, I was kicked into the lowest ticket option, which means they're making significant progress. It sounded like the Bengals believed they'd get a 1 day extension on the black out rule due to the New Year's holiday (similar to the Colts, though the colts had to sell out by yesterday originally).

All that aside, I thought Lance McCallister had an interesting point on his blog the other day; one apparently he made on his show so if you don't read his blog, you may have heard him discuss it on air. At any rate, his point was with the struggles to sell out in Indy (last I saw was 6,000 short a few days ago) and Green Bay (last I saw was 11,000 short yesterday) as well as the Bengals being 8,000 short as of yesterday evening that its clearly not a "fan base" or "team" problem, its an NFL problem. The NFL has dictated the price of tickets, and have given the teams no leeway in altering prices like they can during the regular season. By the time you pay parking, ticket fees and the tickets themselves, you're setting yourself back $200+ for 2 people for one of the worst seats in the house. With Christmas, Chaunaka (sp?), New Years and what not, on top of the economy in general, that prices a lot of people out of the market. The spot that was "best available" as of this morning, is normally $50 a game regular season. Is a playoff game really worth double the price of the regular season ticket? Is it worth sitting in the cold, potentially snowy weather? For some, obviously its well worth the cost of admission, however its obvious w/ the situation in Green Bay, Indy and Cincy that for many, that's just too steep a price to pay.

[LoganBuck]

I enjoy hearing from the Browns' fans on Facebook about how pathetic it is that the Bengals haven't sold out. I point out that people don't want to pay a $50 premium to sit in the snow, and then of course it is a question of your fandom. Sitting in the snow for more money does not make you a better fan, it means you have less money and are cold.

[cumberlandreds]

Will the wind chill be -40 for this game like in 1982?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoFiqLiWOLo&list=PL4sr7ihMpA53_ieBDE2BGcHFo7De062sb&index=8

[Yachtzee]

I have a feeling the tickets will get sold, even if the NFL has to quietly buy up tickets in Cincinnati, Indy, and Green Bay. There seems to be some backlash over NFL ticket prices and it won't look good for them to have 3 playoff games blacked out.

[bucksfan2]

I have a feeling the tickets will get sold, even if the NFL has to quietly buy up tickets in Cincinnati, Indy, and Green Bay. There seems to be some backlash over NFL ticket prices and it won't look good for them to have 3 playoff games blacked out.

The NFL can't let 3 out of 4 playoff games be blacked out, can they? Its ironic but the NFL is directly responsible for the decline in ticket demand. Things like NFL Sunday Ticket, the Redzone channel, billion dollar TV deals, have all made sitting on your couch watch a game much more enjoyable.

There are people who can't go to games, can't afford to go to games, or simply don't want to go to games that are going to be effected by the NFL. The NFL has created a must see TV environment but it has taken away from the game experience. Also not having to deal with vulgar drunken fans in 20 degree weather may sway people to stay at home.

[Yachtzee]

The NFL can't let 3 out of 4 playoff games be blacked out, can they? Its ironic but the NFL is directly responsible for the decline in ticket demand. Things like NFL Sunday Ticket, the Redzone channel, billion dollar TV deals, have all made sitting on your couch watch a game much more enjoyable.

There are people who can't go to games, can't afford to go to games, or simply don't want to go to games that are going to be effected by the NFL. The NFL has created a must see TV environment but it has taken away from the game experience. Also not having to deal with vulgar drunken fans in 20 degree weather may sway people to stay at home.

Apparently dealing with drunks is another issue.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nflnation&id=111127

[redsfan30]

Well, we should be hearing something soon (as in an hour ago??) about TV, no TV or was an extension granted?

[bucksfan2]

Apparently dealing with drunks is another issue.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nflnation&id=111127

I have season tickets with 4 of my buddies. The 5 of us usually tailgate or go to a local establishment for food a drinks. It has been a long time since any of us had been pretty drunk when we entered the game. The problem I have is inevitably there will be someone close by who has decided that he is going to consume as much alcohol as possible and voice his opinion on anything and everything. It has become a place where I would not take my daughter until she was in high school. Its a shame because I can vividly remember going to Bengals games with my grandparents.

[pedro]

Will the wind chill be -40 for this game like in 1982?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoFiqLiWOLo&list=PL4sr7ihMpA53_ieBDE2BGcHFo7De062sb&index=8

I was at that game.

[Yachtzee]

I have season tickets with 4 of my buddies. The 5 of us usually tailgate or go to a local establishment for food a drinks. It has been a long time since any of us had been pretty drunk when we entered the game. The problem I have is inevitably there will be someone close by who has decided that he is going to consume as much alcohol as possible and voice his opinion on anything and everything. It has become a place where I would not take my daughter until she was in high school. Its a shame because I can vividly remember going to Bengals games with my grandparents.

I used to have friends and family who were season ticket holders for the Browns and Bengals, so I used to go to both stadiums all the time. 10 years ago, Cleveland and Cincinnati were polar opposites as far as fans went. In Cleveland, drunk, rowdy behavior was the norm. This was the city infamous for throwing beer bottles on the field. Meanwhile, in Cincinnati, my sister was admonished by another Bengals fan for saying, "Man these guys suck." When I last went a few years ago, the difference between the two cities was negligible. It used to be that places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Philly were the problem cities in the NFL, but now it appears that mentality has become a league-wide problem. In fact, I no longer know any NFL season ticket holders, as my family and friends all gave up their tickets in favor of season tickets for College Football, which is more family friendly and cost effective.

[Reds Freak]

I used to have friends and family who were season ticket holders for the Browns and Bengals, so I used to go to both stadiums all the time. 10 years ago, Cleveland and Cincinnati were polar opposites as far as fans went. In Cleveland, drunk, rowdy behavior was the norm. This was the city infamous for throwing beer bottles on the field. Meanwhile, in Cincinnati, my sister was admonished by another Bengals fan for saying, "Man these guys suck." When I last went a few years ago, the difference between the two cities was negligible. It used to be that places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Philly were the problem cities in the NFL, but now it appears that mentality has become a league-wide problem. In fact, I no longer know any NFL season ticket holders, as my family and friends all gave up their tickets in favor of season tickets for College Football, which is more family friendly and cost effective.

My parents had Bengals season tickets from the mid-80s until the mid-2000s. They thought about giving them up every year in the '90s when the team couldn't crack the three-win mark but continued to renew partly because my dad and I got to spend such quality time together eight Sundays in the fall.

It seems backwards, but as soon as the Bengals became respectable again in the mid-2000s, they had enough and dropped their tickets and haven't been to a game since. We sat up in the cheap seats where the amount of unruly, drunk fans became too much to handle, especially for the Steelers and Browns games.

Unfortunately, our enjoyment of attending the games significantly decreased as the team's success increased. The last straw was a season when we had a game against the Kansas City Chiefs when the guy behind us spent the entire first quarter vomiting on himself and a game against the Steelers when two fans started to tussle on the Purple People Bridge and almost tossed one another overboard.

[MWM]

It's silly that a few thousand tickets at a playoff game is somehow some kind of indictment of an entire fanbase. I don't know about anyone else, but NFL football is the only sport other than golf that I just don't care to see in person. I'd much rather watch on TV.

[Hoosier Red]

So I did a check on ticketmaster this morning, under the "best 2 seats available" option, I was kicked into the lowest ticket option, which means they're making significant progress. It sounded like the Bengals believed they'd get a 1 day extension on the black out rule due to the New Year's holiday (similar to the Colts, though the colts had to sell out by yesterday originally).

All that aside, I thought Lance McCallister had an interesting point on his blog the other day; one apparently he made on his show so if you don't read his blog, you may have heard him discuss it on air. At any rate, his point was with the struggles to sell out in Indy (last I saw was 6,000 short a few days ago) and Green Bay (last I saw was 11,000 short yesterday) as well as the Bengals being 8,000 short as of yesterday evening that its clearly not a "fan base" or "team" problem, its an NFL problem. The NFL has dictated the price of tickets, and have given the teams no leeway in altering prices like they can during the regular season. By the time you pay parking, ticket fees and the tickets themselves, you're setting yourself back $200+ for 2 people for one of the worst seats in the house. With Christmas, Chaunaka (sp?), New Years and what not, on top of the economy in general, that prices a lot of people out of the market. The spot that was "best available" as of this morning, is normally $50 a game regular season. Is a playoff game really worth double the price of the regular season ticket? Is it worth sitting in the cold, potentially snowy weather? For some, obviously its well worth the cost of admission, however its obvious w/ the situation in Green Bay, Indy and Cincy that for many, that's just too steep a price to pay.

The other problem was that in order for Season ticket holders to buy playoff tickets, they had to buy for two games(even though the Colts and Bengals are unlikely to get a 2nd home playoff game.) If there was only one game, the price of the 2nd playoff game was credited to that season ticket holders season tickets for next year.(In other words, very rarely refunded.)

I know in Indianapolis, this led to fewer season ticket holders purchasing the playoff tickets which led to a larger pool of tickets needing to be sold.

[redsfan30]

According to the Bengals Facebook page, today was a strong day of sales (aided by help from a number of businesses) and an extension to tomorrow at 4:00 has been granted.

[Kingspoint]

According to the Bengals Facebook page, today was a strong day of sales (aided by help from a number of businesses) and an extension to tomorrow at 4:00 has been granted.

Yes. Many local area businesses have stepped up, and today Kroger did, too. Most of them will be donating their tickets to the armed forces. You need only show up with your military ID to get two free tickets.

That's good community support from the businesses.

:thumbup:

[redsfan30]

Thanks to a lot of corporate help, the blackout has been avoided and the game will be on local TV.

[Chip R]

Thanks to a lot of corporate help, the blackout has been avoided and the game will be on local TV.

I don't know if someone posted this on another thread but it looks like some people think that these blackout threats are basically a cry of wolf. They have heard this so many times and almost every time someone steps up and buys enough tickets to make it a sellout. After a while people aren't going to buy tickets when they hear the game may be blacked out because ultimately it won't.

[medford]

I'd say it would be a nice problem to have, but I wonder what the ticket situation would be should the Bengals win this week and @ New England next, while either KC or Indy knocks off Denver. Hopefully, I get a chance to see the Bengals push tickets one more time this season.

[WMR]

I'd say it would be a nice problem to have, but I wonder what the ticket situation would be should the Bengals win this week and @ New England next, while either KC or Indy knocks off Denver. Hopefully, I get a chance to see the Bengals push tickets one more time this season.

That would be a much harder ($$$) ticket to get.

EVERYONE would be ALL IN at that point...

[redsfan30]

If Cincinnati would host the AFC Championship game, there is zero chance we will replaying this scenario.

It would sell out in less than a day.

[Yachtzee]

A nice article on the Bengals.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000308596/article/marvin-lewis-cincinnati-bengals-producing-a-story-worth-telling

[bucksfan2]

I don't know if someone posted this on another thread but it looks like some people think that these blackout threats are basically a cry of wolf. They have heard this so many times and almost every time someone steps up and buys enough tickets to make it a sellout. After a while people aren't going to buy tickets when they hear the game may be blacked out because ultimately it won't.

Too many big companies have a vested interest in getting the game on TV. The game on Sunday, and each sequential playoff game will probably be the most watched TV show of the year. Channel 12 could go from the most eyeballs they will have all year to a bad movie or infomercial. The problem becomes that these local companies don't want to buy up tickets until it is almost certain that the game will not sell out without them.

[Chip R]

Too many big companies have a vested interest in getting the game on TV. The game on Sunday, and each sequential playoff game will probably be the most watched TV show of the year. Channel 12 could go from the most eyeballs they will have all year to a bad movie or infomercial. The problem becomes that these local companies don't want to buy up tickets until it is almost certain that the game will not sell out without them.

But that doesn't put any pressure on John Q. Fan to buy tickets. Every time he and his fellow fans hear that the Bengals game is going to be blacked out they aren't going to buy tickets since eventually they will be sold out. So he doesn't have to spend all that money for the game and sit out in the cold. I suppose the Bengals don't care who buys the tickets as long as someone does.

[Yachtzee]

But that doesn't put any pressure on John Q. Fan to buy tickets. Every time he and his fellow fans hear that the Bengals game is going to be blacked out they aren't going to buy tickets since eventually they will be sold out. So he doesn't have to spend all that money for the game and sit out in the cold. I suppose the Bengals don't care who buys the tickets as long as someone does.

Considering 3 teams needed extra time and help to get their tickets sold, I think this is an NFL problem rather than a Bengals problem. I think the NFL needs to figure a couple things out:

1) How to better manage ticket pricing and sales for playoff games. I think the big problem is that a lot of season ticket holders balked at league/team playoff ticket policies requiring them to buy tickets to two playoff games for teams playing in wild card games when it's likely they'll only play one game at home. To get the second home game, the Bengals have to win at home, win on the road, and hope someone knocks off Denver. Indy needs to win at home and on the road, then hope San Diego knocks off both the Bengals and the Pats. They're already charging a premium for the game, so why force season ticket holders to pay for a second game that isn't guaranteed to happen?

2) How to improve the stadium experience. There have been a lot of complaints, not just here, but in other NFL cities as well, that fan behavior at games is becoming intolerable for many people. So many people would rather watch at home or the bar than deal with idiots at the stadium.

[Chip R]

Considering 3 teams needed extra time and help to get their tickets sold, I think this is an NFL problem rather than a Bengals problem.

Agreed. I'm not necessarily trying to blame the Bengals, just the policy they have to live with.


I think the NFL needs to figure a couple things out:

1) How to better manage ticket pricing and sales for playoff games. I think the big problem is that a lot of season ticket holders balked at league/team playoff ticket policies requiring them to buy tickets to two playoff games for teams playing in wild card games when it's likely they'll only play one game at home. To get the second home game, the Bengals have to win at home, win on the road, and hope someone knocks off Denver. Indy needs to win at home and on the road, then hope San Diego knocks off both the Bengals and the Pats. They're already charging a premium for the game, so why force season ticket holders to pay for a second game that isn't guaranteed to happen?

Again, it's NFL policy and the Bengals have to go with it but it's a money making deal. It's similar to what MLB teams do for their playoff games. You buy the playoff ticket package and if they don't win, they apply it to next year's season tickets unless you ask for the money back.


2) How to improve the stadium experience. There have been a lot of complaints, not just here, but in other NFL cities as well, that fan behavior at games is becoming intolerable for many people. So many people would rather watch at home or the bar than deal with idiots at the stadium.

That is a problem that many people have. Personally, I was at a Bengals game earlier this year and didn't have any problems. But it is a problem. As others have said, they have done such a good job with the TV experience that it may be hurting their stadium attendance. I know they have done some things like showing locker room stuff before the game that you can't see at home but is that really something you would go to a game for?

I really think that if Bengals fans were seriously worried about the game(s) being sold out, they would sell it out days in advance. They know someone will step up and buy the remaining tickets.

[Stray]

I hope the snow holds off for the game. Cold temps will help us, but playing in a snow storm will level the playing field imo. We're better than they are and I'd rather not see a sloppy game due to terrible conditions.

[Stray]

If we have a balanced offense we'll win easily.

[Reds Freak]

I know it's a loser mentality but I hate so many people are picking the Bengals to win today. My mind goes to the worst possible scenarios. Good Andy never showing up. Two TDs called back by Gresham holds. Burfict being ejected in the first quarter after a hit on Rivers. Brandon Tate muffing a punt at the 1. I've been rooting for this team too long.

[Yachtzee]

I know it's a loser mentality but I hate so many people are picking the Bengals to win today. My mind goes to the worst possible scenarios. Good Andy never showing up. Two TDs called back by Gresham holds. Burfict being ejected in the first quarter after a hit on Rivers. Brandon Tate muffing a punt at the 1. I've been rooting for this team too long.

All the hype makes me nervous. There has been a lot of talk about how much talent the Bengals have, but the NFL playoffs have been littered with more talented teams losing to less talented ones. But I'm still optimistic.

[Roy Tucker]

Interesting Paul Daugherty column about Mike Brown in the Enquirer today and the change in mentality about managing the Bengals.

One nugget was that Mike wanted to draft Colin Kaepernick and Jay Gruden wanted Andy Dalton when they were both available in round 2 of the 2011 draft. Brown deferred to Gruden.

Count me in as one of the people that don't go to NFL games now because of drunk and rowdy fans. I like a beer as much as the next guy and I'll stand up and hoot and holler, but too many folks seem to think an NFL game is carte blanche to get drunk out of their minds and act like asses. Plus my problem is that I don't tolerate that very well and will let people know about it.

Hope we see good Andy and for the Bengals win. Watch out for SD running backs getting thrown to and yards after catch.

[Wonderful Monds]

Whisenhunt to Detroit so Zimmer is safe from there.

[Stray]

Whisenhunt to Detroit so Zimmer is safe from there.

We're definitely a better team with Zimmer, but a lot of me hopes he gets a HC job just because he's so deserving of one.

[Gizmo]

Our defense just got punched in the mouth. I still think this was the worst matchup we could have gotten out of the teams fighting for the 6 seed the final week.

[RiverRat13]

He's missed a couple of throws but that TD pass was a nice play by Dalton.

[Stray]

Great drive

[GAC]

Whisenhunt to Detroit so Zimmer is safe from there.

He is scheduled to be interviewed by Minnesota.

Solid drive. 7-7. Bengals will start playing looser now.

[RiverRat13]

Beautiful ball there by Dalton and a great catch by Jones.

[Stray]

Doesn't the spike take the review out of play?

[Gizmo]

He had that longer than Bernard, this better stand.

[Stray]

I have no idea what is going on.

[RiverRat13]

I have no idea what is going on.

Are you Jeff Triplett?

[Stray]

Are you Jeff Triplett?

LOL I think he did get both reviews right though. Had the clock been stopped on Gresham's pass when he went out of bounds it would have been incomplete, but since the kept the clock rolling that means the official called his forward progress stopped in bounds when he still had control of the ball.

Bernard's was close but no way to reverse it.

[Yachtzee]

Whew. If they would have ruled that an incompletion and Bernard's a fumble, I think they would need a rule change. Bernard didn't have enough time to pull the ball in when he was hit. Gresham had pulled it into his chest and secured it, but only stuck the ball out to get out of bounds. I didn't know that rule that the clock runs if they go out of bounds backwards.

[Stray]

Whew. If they would have ruled that an incompletion and Bernard's a fumble, I think they would need a rule change. Bernard didn't have enough time to pull the ball in when he was hit. Gresham had pulled it into his chest and secured it, but only stuck the ball out to get out of bounds. I didn't know that rule that the clock runs if they go out of bounds backwards.

It's only because he never made progress up the field first, and even then it's an official's judgment call on whether his forward progress was stopped in bounds...I think.

What is and isn't a catch is pretty complicated to be honest.

[Brutus]

It was a great call for what otherwise is an awful rule. The fact is the clock continued to run because forward progress was stopped, so I think it's intellectually consistent to say it's a catch if progress was stopped and that is what took him to the ground.

The rule itself has to change. I'm fine with having possession to the ground, but if you have two feet in bounds then step out, that right there should end the play. What you do out of bounds should have no bearing on the play.

Also like what I see out of the Bengals despite the sluggish start. Dalton is playing really well and the defense played better the last few drives after being blown off the ball early.

[Yachtzee]

It's only because he never made progress up the field first, and even then it's an official's judgment call on whether his forward progress was stopped in bounds...I think.

What is and isn't a catch is pretty complicated to be honest.

Personally I think if you have control of the ball with one hand or two, it should be a catch. Of course if a call is an incompletion that benefits the Bengals, I won't complain.

[Joseph]

So there was the curse of the goat in Chicago, what are we calling ours?

[Roy Tucker]

Dalton gets flustered a little too easily.

[KoryMac5]

The team is down and SD has the momentum, going to need a big turnover and some pressure on Rivers or the streak will continue.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

So there was the curse of the goat in Chicago, what are we calling ours?

With Chicago, it's just the Cubs. The whole city of Cincinnati seems to be cursed by something.

[Roy Tucker]

Defense has to sac up

[KoryMac5]

You look at the body language this team is putting out and it has L written all over it.

[GAC]

Dalton gets flustered a little too easily.

He tries to put too much on himself.

There's still plenty of time left, so there's no reason to panic, but I did say this on the other thread as the only way the Bengals could lose....


Dalton is going to have to be on his game. He can't make bad nor bone-head decisions, putting to much pressure on himself, trying to force the issue.

C'mon Bengals!!!

[Joseph]

With Chicago, it's just the Cubs. The whole city of Cincinnati seems to be cursed by something.

The curse of chili?

[Yachtzee]

Defense is not looking like the #3 defense.

[Stray]

Nice hold. We'll win the 4th quarter

[GAC]

It ain't the defense as much as it's the offense. At home the Bengals allow the opponent 16 pts/game. SD now has 17, with 2 minutes left in the 3rd.

I guess credit, up to this stage, has to be given to SD's defense.

[GAC]

Dalton throws an INT that SD runs back inside the 5. Geez!

[UKFlounder]

Dalton!

This is why they are the Bungles

[Yachtzee]

The offensive line is just playing like garbage like now.

[Brutus]

It ain't the defense as much as it's the offense. At home the Bengals allow the opponent 16 pts/game. SD now has 17, with 2 minutes left in the 3rd.

I guess credit, up to this stage, has to be given to SD's defense.

The defense has been getting blown off the ball all day long.

And Dalton is being given absolutely NO TIME to throw.

[dougdirt]

Andy Dalton is the worst quarterback in the playoffs. I was hoping our weapons could let it get by. It didn't.

[Roy Tucker]

Dumb play by Harrison

[Brutus]

Andy Dalton is the worst quarterback in the playoffs. I was hoping our weapons could let it get by. It didn't.

Oh come on, you cannot possibly blame this on Dalton. He doesn't have time to sneeze back there.

[GAC]

The Bengal's O-line is just not giving Dalton much protection/time. He's been under a lot of pressure. And from pressure comes bad decision-making.

[RiverRat13]

The defense has been getting blown off the ball all day long.

And Dalton is being given absolutely NO TIME to throw.

They are definitely getting beat up front, but those are two terrible turnovers by Dalton.

[dougdirt]

Oh come on, you cannot possibly blame this on Dalton. He doesn't have time to sneeze back there.

I can blame two turnovers on him. He fumbled a play where no one touched him. Then he threw into double coverage for an easy pick. Yes, he had no time to throw it, but throw it out of bounds or at someones feet. Both of those are on him.

[Brutus]

They are definitely getting beat up front, but those are two terrible turnovers by Dalton.

You're right, I guess he should just hold on to the ball and take a sack every play.

#That'llHelp

The fumble wasn't a terrible turnover. He was being aggressive trying to get a first down for his team. It happens.

[Brutus]

Nevermind. I shouldn't be surprised. People have been irrational in pinning everything on Dalton all year long despite his success. Not sure why I should expect any differently now.

[RiverRat13]

You're right, I guess he should just hold on to the ball and take a sack every play.

#That'llHelp

The fumble wasn't a terrible turnover. He was being aggressive trying to get a first down for his team. It happens.

Blindly throwing the ball is better than taking a sack? You're being irrational in your defense of Dalton now.

[Stray]

Gotta get points on this drive and protect dalton. Not sure what happened to our line at halftime. Getting the ball to our best player wouldn't hurt

[dougdirt]

Nevermind. I shouldn't be surprised. People have been irrational in pinning everything on Dalton all year long despite his success. Not sure why I should expect any differently now.

How many interceptions did he have this year? I am not being irrational by saying he is the worst quarterback in the playoffs. Who is he better than?

[KoryMac5]

QB's get the majority of credit for wins and get hit hard after a loss. Dalton wears this L. Time to start looking for a new QB 0-3 in the playoffs with a loss at home.

[Yachtzee]

I can blame two turnovers on him. He fumbled a play where no one touched him. Then he threw into double coverage for an easy pick. Yes, he had no time to throw it, but throw it out of bounds or at someones feet. Both of those are on him.

Why was he running on the fumble play? Because he got flushed from the pocket. He hasn't had much of a pocket to pass from all second half and the penetration by the D is taking away the screen pass. The San Diego D made some adjustments at the half and the Bengals' O line has yet to handle it. Meanwhile, the vaunted front 7 of the Bengals' D isn't doing much. If they're going to pull of a win, the play on the lines needs to pick up their game.

[RedTeamGo!]

How many interceptions did he have this year? I am not being irrational by saying he is the worst quarterback in the playoffs. Who is he better than?

Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Alex Smith

[dougdirt]

Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Alex Smith

I would take every one of those guys over Dalton. I will openly admit to being a big Alex Smith fan, but would anyone else take Dalton over Newton or Kaepernick?

[KoryMac5]

Time to play hurry up as SD can eat a ton of clock.

[GAC]

Nevermind. I shouldn't be surprised. People have been irrational in pinning everything on Dalton all year long despite his success. Not sure why I should expect any differently now.

C'mon. There isn't a person in this discussion that wouldn't acknowledge that the Bengals wouldn't be playing today if not for Dalton.

But those two turnovers, right now, are the difference in this game as SD has capitalized (gotten points) off both.

Dalton looks frustrated.

[Joseph]

The defense doesn't deserve this offense.

[dougdirt]

Why was he running on the fumble play? Because he got flushed from the pocket. He hasn't had much of a pocket to pass from all second half and the penetration by the D is taking away the screen pass. The San Diego D made some adjustments at the half and the Bengals' O line has yet to handle it. Meanwhile, the vaunted front 7 of the Bengals' D isn't doing much. If they're going to pull of a win, the play on the lines needs to pick up their game.

I don't care why he was running. He fumbled the ball 8 yards past the line of scrimmage when no one touched him. That is no ones fault but his.

[paintmered]

Sorry to interrupt "Dalton sucks/no he doesn't XLVIII", but the Bengals are driving.

[Joseph]

Time for Dalton to go.

[Boston Red]

Dalton wasn't rushed on that throw.

[RedTeamGo!]

I would take every one of those guys over Dalton. I will openly admit to being a big Alex Smith fan, but would anyone else take Dalton over Newton or Kaepernick?

I watched every Panthers game this year and I have never seen a qb struggle with screen passes as much as Newton. He has absolutely no touch. Granted, he is an explosive runner and playmaker, but with regards to who is a better qb right now, it is easily Dalton.

[KoryMac5]

That will do it folks. Killer pick, no defense of this QB anymore debate over!

[Ohayou]

See you next season.

[RedFanAlways1966]

I don't care why he was running. He fumbled the ball 8 yards past the line of scrimmage when no one touched him. That is no ones fault but his.

And throws another easy pick to SD. UGH. I am so fed up with Dalton...

[paintmered]

Okay, he sucks. That pick was all on him.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Groundhog Day!

[dougdirt]

Are we going to defend that one too? Was that someone elses fault too? How many turnovers does he need to make before it is his fault? 30? Maybe he will have that many by the end of the game.

[Stray]

Ugh

[Red in Chicago]

Sorry to interrupt "Dalton sucks/no he doesn't XLVIII", but the Bengals are driving.

not any longer

[GAC]

Another Dalton INT.

But it wasn't his fault! ;)

Then Bengal's Collins gets a 15 yd personal foul tacked on after the play! Geez!

[Yachtzee]

Now that was a bad pass by Dalton. Finally moving the ball and makes a huge mistake. That is a killer.

[KoryMac5]

Been saying all yr it was time to start looking for a different QB in the draft, that seals it. Guy can't win a big game to save his life. Crumbles in pressure.

[Brutus]

Are we going to defend that one too? Was that someone elses fault too? How many turnovers does he need to make before it is his fault? 30? Maybe he will have that many by the end of the game.

You sound awfully happy to play the blame game. Goodness.

Yes, that absolutely was on him unlike the other one.

[RedTeamGo!]

Terrible play by Dalton - no question. And now football in Ohio is officially over until next year :(

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Nothing will change.

[Brutus]

People here take more joy in talking about how bad they think Dalton is than celebrating when he makes plays.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Terrible play by Dalton - no question. And now football in Ohio is officially over until next year :(

Next season... or later this year! ;)

[GAC]

I gotta turn my cellphone off. I just know that my Bengal fan younger brother ("Marvin Lewis has never won a play-off game") is gonna try and call me. LOL

[dougdirt]

You sound awfully happy to play the blame game. Goodness.

Yes, that absolutely was on him unlike the other one.

I'm glad we aren't addressing fumbling the ball when no one touched him. The guy has three turnovers and you are defending him. But yeah, I am the unreasonable one.

[Stray]

Need a big play. Too bad we put ourselves in this position with the weather late in the game.

[GAC]

People here take more joy in talking about how bad they think Dalton is than celebrating when he makes plays.

Not at all. But this is a very important game. The loser is done. And Dalton has been terrible this half. It can't all be blamed on the O-line.

[RedTeamGo!]

This just in - bengals will have ball with 8 minutes left down by 10 - it's not over yet - even though I just stated it was.

[RiverRat13]

Still have a chance.

[Reds4Life]

The Bengals always find new ways to lose in big games, nobody should be surprised.

[Stray]

We haven't lost yet guys. We'll have plenty of time to blame everyone if we do.

[KoryMac5]

Cardinal sin in playoff games don't turn the ball over. Dalton has 3, Rivers has 0, ballgame right there. You can't continue to turn the ball over at the rate this kid does and expect to win. San Diego played vanilla offense all day because they knew Andy would cough it up.

[GAC]

And Rivers hasn't shined in this game either.

But he has also, yet, to make any costly mistakes at QB.

[Stray]

Cardinal sin in playoff games don't turn the ball over. Dalton has 3, Rivers has 0, ballgame right there. You can't continue to turn the ball over at the rate this kid does and expect to win. San Diego played vanilla offense all day because they knew Andy would cough it up.

Plus the gio fumble. Can't win like that.

[GAC]

We haven't lost yet guys. We'll have plenty of time to blame everyone if we do.

Darn right it an't over!

[RiverRat13]

C'mon A.J.

[GAC]

Ya gotta catch that one AJ!!!!!

[Stray]

That was a good throw

[RedTeamGo!]

Perfect, beautiful throw by dalton - completely AJ Green's fault.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Green is not a big game WR.

[dougdirt]

Good defense by the safety. AJ has to go up and get that.

[RedTeamGo!]

Good defense by the safety. AJ has to go up and get that.

Gotta catch that. AJ has to step up.

[KoryMac5]

AJ has those lapses in concentration every so often that drive you nuts.

[RedTeamGo!]

Terrible play/throw

[RiverRat13]

LOL on 4th and 3.

[Ohayou]

What in the...hell.

[dougdirt]

4th and 3 and you throw it 40 yards down field.

Sigh.

[RedTeamGo!]

What in the wide world of sports was that play? Wow. It's official now.

[Yachtzee]

Ugh. You need three yards on fourth down. Get the three yards.

[Stray]

That was stupid

[dougdirt]

I just don't understand.

[RedTeamGo!]

Cinci loses to worst team in the playoffs. Well, I guess that makes cinci the worst team in the playoffs.

[New York Red]

If you're still defending Andy Dalton after today, I have to question where your allegiance lies.

[UKFlounder]

You haven't watched this franchise long enough. In aFew years you'll understand that's how this team rolls


I just don't understand.

[Stray]

Gonna be a long off-season. I may just tune it out. Frustrating that this keeps happening.

[dougdirt]

You haven't watched this franchise long enough. In aFew years you'll understand that's how this team rolls

I understand that they are Murphys Law.... but I don't understand why.

[RedTeamGo!]

Is there anything more frustrating than being a fan of a team that loses in the first round of the playoffs every year? The regular season had fun moments, but then you realize your draft pick will be late in the first round so it will be difficult to improve much.

[Redhook]

If you're still defending Andy Dalton after today, I have to question where your allegiance lies.

Who's the backup? Can he play the last few minutes?

[Stray]

A lot on dalton today. Other parts of the offense didn't exactly play well either tho.

Defense has played ok. Offense locked up in second half.

[Yachtzee]

Is there anything more frustrating than being a fan of a team that loses in the first round of the playoffs every year? The regular season had fun moments, but then you realize your draft pick will be late in the first round so it will be difficult to improve much.

Honestly it, was more frustrating watching them lose game after game, get a high first round draft pick, and blow it on the likes of Kijana Carter and Akili Smith.

[RiverRat13]

A lot on dalton today. Other parts of the offense didn't exactly play well either tho.

Defense has played ok. Offense locked up in second half.

Offensive line got manhandled.

[Stray]

Get a few yards for a fg and give us a chance

[RiverRat13]

Honestly it, was more frustrating watching them lose game after game, get a high first round draft pick, and blow it on the likes of Kijana Carter and Akili Smith.

No doubt. If the options are being the Minnesota Twins of football or going through 1991-2003 again, I'll take being the Twins.

[Stray]

Drop by Bernard. We'd have had a fg then an onside kick. Total meltdown.

[Red in Chicago]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[MWM]

Group effort today. Dalton bad, Gio's fumble, AJ's drop.

But when you score 10 at home against a bad defense, something is wrong with your gameplan. Gruden was awful today too.

SD dominated second half. That tells me the Bengals were out-coached, but that's what has happened in the playoffs each of the last 3 years. I'm a Marvin fan, but his teams have not been prepared in the playoffs. That's disappointing.

[Stray]

Completely different team after halftime. Not sure what the answer is at this point, but it's not all on dalton. The team can look like a deer in headlights when the heat is on...all of them.

[GAC]

Out scored 20-0 in the second half. I would have never thunked it.

[paintmered]

The Bengals melt when the bright lights come on. Time and time again.

They're basically the team version of Peyton Manning.

[Todd Gack]

Said by Todd Gack after Steelers debacle:

I can tell you exactly what's going to happen because this is the way the NFL works: The Bengals will win the division by winning their next two games (rather convincingly too) at home. They're either going to be the 2 or 3 seed and no matter what, they're going to lose their first game in the playoffs. It's just how things work in the NFL and in Cincinnati.

[RiverRat13]

The thing is, I didn't see anyone say it was all on Dalton. The Dalton discussion devolved once someone tried to defend his first two turnovers, which I (and others) thought were indefensible. It was pretty obvious they got beat up front on both sides, which is terribly disappointing. And Gio picked a bad time to look like a rookie.

[Yachtzee]

So those who want a new QB, who do you honestly think is going to be available when the Bengals pick? I think the Bengals need to look at shoring up the interior of the offensive line. If there is a sleeper QB you can groom to take over for Dalton, sure, go for it. But in the meantime, work on Dalton and his decision making and get linemen who can help with the pass protection/run game.

[Roy Tucker]

Boy, what an egg the Bengals laid today. Really awful.

[dougdirt]

So those who want a new QB, who do you honestly think is going to be available when the Bengals pick? I think the Bengals need to look at shoring up the interior of the offensive line. If there is a sleeper QB you can groom to take over for Dalton, sure, go for it. But in the meantime, work on Dalton and his decision making and get linemen who can help with the pass protection/run game.

Knowing that Dalton isn't the answer doesn't mean I have the answer. I wish I did. I want someone who can throw a deep ball.

[Stray]

Prolly frustration, but I think the team needs a new identity at head coach. Getting there is cool and all, but the team looked mentally unprepared each time.

[RiverRat13]

So those who want a new QB, who do you honestly think is going to be available when the Bengals pick? I think the Bengals need to look at shoring up the interior of the offensive line. If there is a sleeper QB you can groom to take over for Dalton, sure, go for it. But in the meantime, work on Dalton and his decision making and get linemen who can help with the pass protection/run game.

The better plan is to take a QB somewhere in the 2nd-4th rounds and hope they eventually beat Dalton out, not just hand a draftee the job from Day 1. Like SF did with Colin K when they already had Alex Smith.

I'm still predicting Mike Brown hands Dalton a Cutler-like contract this season, though.

[kaldaniels]

So those who want a new QB, who do you honestly think is going to be available when the Bengals pick? I think the Bengals need to look at shoring up the interior of the offensive line. If there is a sleeper QB you can groom to take over for Dalton, sure, go for it. But in the meantime, work on Dalton and his decision making and get linemen who can help with the pass protection/run game.

Shameis for Jameis?

[Stray]

The better plan is to take a QB somewhere in the 2nd-4th rounds and hope they eventually beat Dalton out, not just hand a draftee the job from Day 1. Like SF did with Colin K when they already had Alex Smith.

I'm still predicting Mike Brown hands Dalton a Cutler-like contract this season, though.

Years and total dollars don't matter, just the guaranteed money. A lot of deals like that are easier on the cap.

[Joseph]

Completely different team after halftime. Not sure what the answer is at this point, but it's not all on dalton. The team can look like a deer in headlights when the heat is on...all of them.

That's on leadership.

[MWM]

Shameis for Jameis?

Please no. I will never root for him.

[Yachtzee]

The Bengals melt when the bright lights come on. Time and time again.

They're basically the team version of Peyton Manning.

Manning eventually won a Super Bowl. Keep making the playoffs and eventually they'll get over the hump. But you can't win playoff games if you don't make the playoffs.

[Reds4Life]

For those that think it's not on Dalton, in 3 playoff games he's only thrown for 1TD, and 7 INT's. But yeah, he's awesome.

[Wonderful Monds]

I'm done with the Bengals. Can't take this crap anymore.

[Stray]

For those that think it's not on Dalton, in 3 playoff games he's only thrown for 1TD, and 7 INT's. But yeah, he's awesome.

It's not all on dalton, but he has his share of the blame.

[Todd Gack]

Manning eventually won a Super Bowl. Keep making the playoffs and eventually they'll get over the hump. But you can't win playoff games if you don't make the playoffs.

Manning had absolutely zero, I mean ZERO defense with his teams in Indy.

He literally had to carry the team by himself. Not to mention, he still had decent numbers in the playoffs.

[Yachtzee]

Shameis for Jameis?

Just say no to Heisman QBs.

[Ohayou]

Knowing that Dalton isn't the answer doesn't mean I have the answer. I wish I did. I want someone who can throw a deep ball.

You keep saying that, but it's literally the most overrated aspect of quarterback evaluation.

[Reds4Life]

It's not all on dalton, but he has his share of the blame.

Should be the lions share. His stat line in post season games is absolutely horrific.

[Stray]

Marvin will get fired before dalton loses his job. Doubt either will happen.

Feels like the reds...know we're good enough to make it and bad enough to lose every time.

No easy answers.

[Wonderful Monds]

So those who want a new QB, who do you honestly think is going to be available when the Bengals pick? I think the Bengals need to look at shoring up the interior of the offensive line. If there is a sleeper QB you can groom to take over for Dalton, sure, go for it. But in the meantime, work on Dalton and his decision making and get linemen who can help with the pass protection/run game.
Literally anyone who isn't Andy Dalton, who may be the NFL's worst starting QB.

[Stray]

Should be the lions share. His stat line in post season games is absolutely horrific.

Turnovers no doubt. The late drop by aj and the fumble by Bernard hurt our offense just as much tho.

Good players making bad plays when we can't afford them. Story of the Bengals it seems.

[powersackers]

That was painful. What's new?

[texasdave]

SOB - Same Old Bengals.

[dougdirt]

You keep saying that, but it's literally the most overrated aspect of quarterback evaluation.

I know that you can teach some touch. You can't teach 20 extra yards on a long ball so AJ Green has to slow up and let the DB's catch up to him.

[sonny]

So when is Marvin signing his 5 year extension?

[dougdirt]

That was painful. What's new?

I was dumb enough to believe we should have easily won this game. At least in the past I had a thought we could lose.

[dougdirt]

So when is Marvin signing his 5 year extension?

Wednesday.

[Stray]

I'll take an off-season of zim getting promoted to head coach, Marvin taking front office job and hue Jackson getting promoted to oc when gruden takes a hc job.

One can dream right?

[Ohayou]

Literally anyone who isn't Andy Dalton, who may be the NFL's worst starting QB.

Eli Manning
RG3
Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Mike Glennon
Carson Palmer
Sam Bradford
Geno Smith
Ryan Tannehill
EJ Manuel
Joe Flacco
Chad Henne
Vikings/Browns/Titans/Texans/Raiders QB

I'm not Dalton's biggest fan, either, but be reasonable...

[Falcon7]

Terrible play by Dalton - no question. And now football in Ohio is officially over until next year :(

Ohio post season football: 0 for 6! From Mt. Union (Stagg Bowl) to the Bungles. Pretty pathetic Ohio.

Marvin's post season record is still O-fer.

[Yachtzee]

Literally anyone who isn't Andy Dalton, who may be the NFL's worst starting QB.

Dalton isn't even the worst starting QB in the division. I'm sure the Browns would have been happy to have a QB with Dalton's numbers.

And for all the bluster about getting rid of Marvin Lewis, realize that all the players they currently have are the result of scouting by Lewis and his coaching staff. Fire Marvin after a playoff season and I doubt you see Zimmer stick around. He's already a candidate for the Vikings job. If he has a choice between working for a team that has some good players but needs some work and a team that fires the coach that took the team from misery to regular playoff team after an 11-5 season, I think you question whether the owner is going to give you the support you need. If the Bengals lose both Lewis and Zimmer in the off-season, I shudder to think who they get to replace them. I have no confidence that lightning will strike twice in the Mike Brown coach hiring department. I'd rather have Lewis stick around and keep bringing in good players until Mike Brown hands over the reigns to Katie Blackburn.

[WMR]

Been saying all yr it was time to start looking for a different QB in the draft, that seals it. Guy can't win a big game to save his life. Crumbles in pressure.

What a sorry ass effort by Dalton and the offensive line.

Gotta draft a qb.

Something that really stuck out watching dalton in person is just how bad his tunnel vision is. Even when he has ample time he rarely goes through a progression.

Marvin now 0-5 in the playoffs. About time for another extension from Mikey.

[Stray]

We were a good team this year, and dalton isn't a bad qb. But we play our worst games in the playoffs and that has to be a reflection of the head coach after a while.

To be honest I'm not even sure I want us to fire Marvin, I'd love for him to get a fo job on the team.

Who knows how to fix it, but I agree with the person who said it's a leadership thing.

[kaldaniels]

I will help you out Bengals fans assuming you don't want to tank.

Grab Mettenberger in the second or third round (don't let someone else grab him) next year and give him a year to learn.

[Redhook]

I really thought this year was different. I thought there was just too much talent on the Bengals roster to lose in the 1st round. I actually believed they would then go to NE and beat them. Boy, was I wrong. I'm so disappointed.

The OL stunk today and the game plan was mediocre at best, but Dalton is really the complete opposite of the phrase, "the cream rises to the top." He is so bad in these big games. It's unreal.

[Roy Tucker]

I wouldn't want to be Dalton now. He's going to get absolutely hammered in the media and by fans.

[reds1869]

We were a good team this year, and dalton isn't a bad qb. But we play our worst games in the playoffs and that has to be a reflection of the head coach after a while.

To be honest I'm not even sure I want us to fire Marvin, I'd love for him to get a fo job on the team.

Who knows how to fix it, but I agree with the person who said it's a leadership thing.

I would love for Marvin to take over as GM and hire Zimmer as the head coach.

[WMR]

People here take more joy in talking about how bad they think Dalton is than celebrating when he makes plays.

Oh yeah. Sitting in the rain watching the Bengals piss away another playoff season, I just couldn't wait to get back to RZ and talk about Dalton sucking. Believe me, nothing would have made me happier than seeing Good Andy miraculously reappear.

[Joseph]

I wouldn't want to be Dalton now. He's going to get absolutely hammered in the media and by fans.

I'd trade paychecks with him in a heartbeat.

But he likely deserves every bit of anything spewed his direction, as far as criticism anyway.

[texasdave]

Charles Dickens was right. It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.

Bengals have been to the playoffs four of the past five years.
Reds have been to the playoffs three of the past four years.

Nothing out of seven.

[dougdirt]

Charles Dickens was right. It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.

Bengals have been to the playoffs four of the past five years.
Reds have been to the playoffs three of the past four years.

Nothing out of seven.

While completely accurate.....

To soon.

[Stray]

Sooner or later one of them is bound to do something in the playoffs. I dunno how many more years of this I can take lol.

[RiverRat13]

And for all the bluster about getting rid of Marvin Lewis, realize that all the players they currently have are the result of scouting by Lewis and his coaching staff.

Yep. While I think a different coach might get this talented group over the top, it would be a major roll of the dice that a different coach would be as good as evaluating talent as Lewis.

[Yachtzee]

I would love for Marvin to take over as GM and hire Zimmer as the head coach.

Never going to happen while Mike Brown is in charge. Now if Mike were to hand the reigns to Katie this off-season, who knows?

[KoryMac5]

I just don't see Marvin pulling the plug on Dalton anytime soon. Mike Brown may have to be the one to put some pressure on Marvin in that regards.

[WebScorpion]

Bernard's fumble may have been the turning point, but it was not his fault. He was stripped. Dalton fumbled without anyone touching him and the 2 picks were just stupid throws. Dalton may not get shaken by his own mistakes but not making them in the first place would be nice. Any quarterback who didn't turnover the ball would have won that game for the Bengals. :thumbdown:

[Yachtzee]

I just don't see Marvin pulling the plug on Dalton anytime soon. Mike Brown may have to be the one to put some pressure on Marvin in that regards.

I think the more likely scenario is to bring in a quality backup to see how Dalton responds. Either that or bring in an experienced vet to mentor Dalton.

[Benihana]

Man, does it get any more disappointing than that? I'm not sure what stings more - the loss itself or knowing Mike Brown was right (and Jay Gruden was WRONG) in wanting Kaepernick over Dalton.

The good news is the problem is mainly restricted to two people:
The bad news is those two people probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon thanks to Mikeyboy Brown.

Consider these lifetime stats in the playoffs: Marvin Lewis is 0-5. Andy Dalton has 1 TD and 7 INT.

Dan O'Shaughnessy was right. Those are the only two positions that matter when it comes to the playoffs. You can have a great team but if you are below average at either of those two positions, you'll always have a ceiling. You'll never go all the way. The Bengals are 0-for-both of them. As long as that continues to be the case, we'll never succeed when it counts the most.

My plan would be, seriously, to draft a QB in Rounds 2 or 3. It used to be an NFL death knell. Now it's the path for success. Don't go all-in on a franchise guy (unless he is truly a franchise, top of the draft type of guy like Luck). Instead draft a talented winner with some flaws that can push or challenge an incumbent QB on a winning team. Think the Niners with Kaepernick, the Seahawks with Wilson, the Eagles with Foles, and going back a bit farther, the Broncos with Cutler. Not a guy that needs to start right away and not a guy that your franchise will tank if he doesn't work out, but a guy that COULD work out, and COULD challenge the status quo. Take the best OL or CB available in the first round. Maybe the 2nd too, if the QB is not there. But no way should the Bengals get through the first two days of the Draft without acquiring a QB.

My prediction: Unfortunately they will not follow that path, but Mikeyboy will push all-in on Dalton and Marvin, giving one or both a big extension. The Bengals will take a major step back in 2014, much like the Texans did this year (although not as bad), and Marvin will step down or get fired after the season. We will have a new head coach in 2015, but I don't think it will be Gruden or Zimmer. And I'm ok with that - especially Gruden, who I think is wildly overrated. Today was proof - our offensive gameplan absolutely sucked. For the third year in a row. Sure there were protection problems, but we put up 10 points, on the weak Chargers D, at home. That's just inexcusable.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's my feeling. Another year, another heartbreak, and there is no reason for optimism that things will be better next year so long as there's no change at QB or HC.

[Wonderful Monds]

Eli Manning
RG3
Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Mike Glennon
Carson Palmer
Sam Bradford
Geno Smith
Ryan Tannehill
EJ Manuel
Joe Flacco
Chad Henne
Vikings/Browns/Titans/Texans/Raiders QB

I'm not Dalton's biggest fan, either, but be reasonable...

Are you serious? You think RG3, Cutler, Flacco and Stafford are better than Dalton? That's the most delusional thing I've read all day, and that's REALLY saying something. And I would even take Carson, Bradford, and Manuel over Dalton. AND EVEN THEN, I still don't think he's significantly better than the rest of that list. He is hot garbage.

[Sea Ray]

This city is in the midst of a playoff curse that hard to fathom. Not only do we lose in the playoffs; we completely forget how to play. Both the Reds and the Bengals have failed to advance at all in the playoffs since 1995 and more often than not, they're completely blown away. This curse goes well beyond the Bengals.

As for next year, we'll just go 'round again. I'm not worried about this game affecting 2014. It's just one game. We've got a lot of young players so I expect us to be playoff contenders for many years to come.

As an old hardened Bengal fan, I know not to give my heart to this team. You can't count on them for anything. Enjoy whatever wins you can get out of them but don't ever have expectations of winning anything. As soon as you do, they'll break your heart

[Joseph]

The Chili Curse.

[fearofpopvol1]

Should Lewis be fired?

[Wonderful Monds]

Should Lewis be fired?

Moved to GM. Gruden should be fired. Dalton should be cut.

[puca]

Dalton is nothing special. He isn't good, he isn't bad. He has the physical ability but in my opinion is lacking in the intangibles. Decision making is spotty at best, especially on the fly. But I think his biggest issue is that he doesn't command the offense. He just doesn't give off the 'lead into battle' vibe.

[Yachtzee]

Man, does it get any more disappointing than that? I'm not sure what stings more - the loss itself or knowing Mike Brown was right (and Jay Gruden was WRONG) in wanting Kaepernick over Dalton.

The good news is the problem is mainly restricted to two people:
The bad news is those two people probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon thanks to Mikeyboy Brown.

Consider these lifetime stats in the playoffs: Marvin Lewis is 0-5. Andy Dalton has 1 TD and 7 INT.

Dan O'Shaughnessy was right. Those are the only two positions that matter when it comes to the playoffs. You can have a great team but if you are below average at either of those two positions, you'll always have a ceiling. You'll never go all the way. The Bengals are 0-for-both of them. As long as that continues to be the case, we'll never succeed when it counts the most.

My plan would be, seriously, to draft a QB in Rounds 2 or 3. It used to be an NFL death knell. Now it's the path for success. Don't go all-in on a franchise guy (unless he is truly a franchise, top of the draft type of guy like Luck). Instead draft a talented winner with some flaws that can push or challenge an incumbent QB on a winning team. Think the Niners with Kaepernick, the Seahawks with Wilson, the Eagles with Foles, and going back a bit farther, the Broncos with Cutler. Not a guy that needs to start right away and not a guy that your franchise will tank if he doesn't work out, but a guy that COULD work out, and COULD challenge the status quo. Take the best OL or CB available in the first round. Maybe the 2nd too, if the QB is not there. But no way should the Bengals get through the first two days of the Draft without acquiring a QB.

My prediction: Unfortunately they will not follow that path, but Mikeyboy will push all-in on Dalton and Marvin, giving one or both a big extension. The Bengals will take a major step back in 2014, much like the Texans did this year (although not as bad), and Marvin will step down or get fired after the season. We will have a new head coach in 2015, but I don't think it will be Gruden or Zimmer. And I'm ok with that - especially Gruden, who I think is wildly overrated. Today was proof - our offensive gameplan absolutely sucked. For the third year in a row. Sure there were protection problems, but we put up 10 points, on the weak Chargers D, at home. That's just inexcusable.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's my feeling. Another year, another heartbreak, and there is no reason for optimism that things will be better next year so long as there's no change at QB or HC.

Do you mean Dan Shaughnessy, the Boston Globe columnist who promoted the whole "Curse of the Bambino" myth to explain the Red Sox' problems in the playoffs? Maybe if the Bengals were a Boston team he could cook up some metaphysical hokum to explain the Bengals' playoff problems.

I'd say the place for optimism is that we get Hall and Atkins back on Defense and that most of our big players are still young. The only areas beside interior offensive line that are a concern are in the defensive secondary, where Terence Newman and Chris Crocker are getting long in the tooth.

As far as Lewis goes, I think he improved his game management this year. He did a lot better at challenging plays and there weren't nearly as many bad timeout calls that they've had in the past.

[Sea Ray]

Marvin will get fired before dalton loses his job. Doubt either will happen.

Feels like the reds...know we're good enough to make it and bad enough to lose every time.

No easy answers.

The issue with Dalton is a salary cap one. Do they give him Cutler-like money this off season or let him play out his contract next year? I think I let him do the latter and take my chances

[Sea Ray]

Should Lewis be fired?
I would. It's time for a change at the top

[UKFlounder]

I expect them to re- sign Dalton before they re-sign Green, though I think Green is the better player. Mikey Boy lives the QB position and I think he'll be gphappy with Dalton, like he was with Palmer


The issue with Dalton is a salary cap one. Do they give him Cutler-like money this off season or let him play out his contract next year? I think I let him do the latter and take my chances

[redsfanmia]

Moved to GM. Gruden should be fired. Dalton should be cut.

You want to cut A quarterback who lead you to 3 straight playoff appearances?

[Benihana]

Man, does it get any more disappointing than that? I'm not sure what stings more - the loss itself or knowing Mike Brown was right (and Jay Gruden was WRONG) in wanting Kaepernick over Dalton.

The good news is the problem is mainly restricted to two people:
The bad news is those two people probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon thanks to Mikeyboy Brown.

Consider these lifetime stats in the playoffs: Marvin Lewis is 0-5. Andy Dalton has 1 TD and 7 INT.

Dan O'Shaughnessy was right. Those are the only two positions that matter when it comes to the playoffs. You can have a great team but if you are below average at either of those two positions, you'll always have a ceiling. You'll never go all the way. The Bengals are 0-for-both of them. As long as that continues to be the case, we'll never succeed when it counts the most.

My plan would be, seriously, to draft a QB in Rounds 2 or 3. It used to be an NFL death knell. Now it's the path for success. Don't go all-in on a franchise guy (unless he is truly a franchise, top of the draft type of guy like Luck). Instead draft a talented winner with some flaws that can push or challenge an incumbent QB on a winning team. Think the Niners with Kaepernick, the Seahawks with Wilson, the Eagles with Foles, and going back a bit farther, the Broncos with Cutler. Not a guy that needs to start right away and not a guy that your franchise will tank if he doesn't work out, but a guy that COULD work out, and COULD challenge the status quo. Take the best OL or CB available in the first round. Maybe the 2nd too, if the QB is not there. But no way should the Bengals get through the first two days of the Draft without acquiring a QB.

My prediction: Unfortunately they will not follow that path, but Mikeyboy will push all-in on Dalton and Marvin, giving one or both a big extension. The Bengals will take a major step back in 2014, much like the Texans did this year (although not as bad), and Marvin will step down or get fired after the season. We will have a new head coach in 2015, but I don't think it will be Gruden or Zimmer. And I'm ok with that - especially Gruden, who I think is wildly overrated. Today was proof - our offensive gameplan absolutely sucked. For the third year in a row. Sure there were protection problems, but we put up 10 points, on the weak Chargers D, at home. That's just inexcusable.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's my feeling. Another year, another heartbreak, and there is no reason for optimism that things will be better next year so long as there's no change at QB or HC.

And if you think I'm "doomsdaying", consider next year's schedule features the Patriots, Broncos, Colts, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, and of course 2x vs. Ravens and Steelers. I wouldn't count on a return to the playoffs unless there is a DRAMATIC improvement from Dalton.

[Stray]

The issue with Dalton is a salary cap one. Do they give him Cutler-like money this off season or let him play out his contract next year? I think I let him do the latter and take my chances

I think you resign him long term and backload the contract. It will be cap friendly, and you wouldn't need to guarantee that much money to him I wouldn't think.

[Stray]

And if you think I'm "doomsdaying", consider next year's schedule features the Patriots, Broncos, Colts, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, and of course 2x vs. Ravens and Steelers. I wouldn't count on a return to the playoffs unless there is a DRAMATIC improvement from Dalton.

We had Green Bay, New England, San Diego, Indianapolis, Pitt x2, Baltimore x2, and Detroit this year. On paper the schedule looked tough.

I have no doubts about our ability to navigate through a regular season and position ourselves for the playoffs. I also have no doubts about Dalton and Co. having a good regular season next year.

The question for Dalton, and everyone else on the team for that matter is when in the world are they going to play well in a playoff game? We weren't as bad as we played today. We've all watched all year and know that. It's no longer a coincidental bad game is all, it's a trend.

[Benihana]

Do you mean Dan Shaughnessy, the Boston Globe columnist who promoted the whole "Curse of the Bambino" myth to explain the Red Sox' problems in the playoffs? Maybe if the Bengals were a Boston team he could cook up some metaphysical hokum to explain the Bengals' playoff problems.

I'd say the place for optimism is that we get Hall and Atkins back on Defense and that most of our big players are still young. The only areas beside interior offensive line that are a concern are in the defensive secondary, where Terence Newman and Chris Crocker are getting long in the tooth.

As far as Lewis goes, I think he improved his game management this year. He did a lot better at challenging plays and there weren't nearly as many bad timeout calls that they've had in the past.

Yes, I do. I'm not championing the man's baseball wits, or even overall wits, but noting that he had the Bengals pegged absolutely right. Sure we get Geno and Hall back, and that's good. But that's true for everyone - the Colts get Wayne back, the Pats get Gronk, Mayo and Wilfork back, the Broncos get Miller et al back, etc. This, I believed at least in my mind, was the Bengals year because EVERYBODY was down. Everybody was beatable, certainly by us, and especially at home. Of course as it turns out, as always, the Bengals let us down, and proved our faith wrong.

We have four defensive starters who are almost eligible for social security. Guys who were on their last leg, last year. MJ is a goner. Dre Kirkpatrick is an absolute bust, the biggest in the Marvin era. He should be released tomorrow, and I'm not exaggerating. The fact that he was the first round pick in the same year Burfict went undrafted is unbelievable.

We need a new RB to complement Gio. Law Firm is no good. Whitworth had a courageous year, but he too is mortal and getting (Very) long in the tooth. The Hippo is turning back into the Hippo, and Zeitler seemed to fall off as the year went on. The Bengals o-line has too many holes, as today's game showed, that they'll need to spend at least two top 40 picks to bolster those forces, just as they'll need to spend at least two top 40 picks to bolster the secondary. Problem is, we have only 1 of those top 40 picks this offseason, and we all know what the Bengals philosophy with regards to free agency is. And this doesn't even address what is by far the two biggest weaknesses on the team - the quarterback and the head coach.

I actually think the Bengals have a pretty good team all around except for the quarterback and the head coach. Unfortunately those are by far the two most important positions. And next year will be no different.

[Kingspoint]

Disheartening.

The same gut-wrenching feeling I had after the last four playoff appearances by Marvin Lewis.


There's so many, I've lost count. Is that five losses without a win for Marvin or four losses (in the playoffs)?

[Kingspoint]

Yes, I do. I'm not championing the man's baseball wits, or even overall wits, but noting that he had the Bengals pegged absolutely right. Sure we get Geno and Hall back, and that's good. But that's true for everyone - the Colts get Wayne back, the Pats get Gronk, Mayo and Wilfork back, the Broncos get Miller et al back, etc. This, I believed at least in my mind, was the Bengals year because EVERYBODY was down. Everybody was beatable, certainly by us, and especially at home. Of course as it turns out, as always, the Bengals let us down, and proved our faith wrong.

We have four defensive starters who are almost eligible for social security. Guys who were on their last leg, last year. MJ is a goner. Dre Kirkpatrick is an absolute bust, the biggest in the Marvin era. He should be released tomorrow, and I'm not exaggerating. The fact that he was the first round pick in the same year Burfict went undrafted is unbelievable.

We need a new RB to complement Gio. Law Firm is no good. Whitworth had a courageous year, but he too is mortal and getting (Very) long in the tooth. The Hippo is turning back into the Hippo, and Zeitler seemed to fall off as the year went on. The Bengals o-line has too many holes, as today's game showed, that they'll need to spend at least two top 40 picks to bolster those forces, just as they'll need to spend at least two top 40 picks to bolster the secondary. Problem is, we have only 1 of those top 40 picks this offseason, and we all know what the Bengals philosophy with regards to free agency is. And this doesn't even address what is by far the two biggest weaknesses on the team - the quarterback and the head coach.

I actually think the Bengals have a pretty good team all around except for the quarterback and the head coach. Unfortunately those are by far the two most important positions. And next year will be no different.

Couldn't agree more, accept I would add that O.C. needs to be replaced. There were a lot of bone-headed moments this season by Gruden, and his play-calling today was below-average, at best.

[Benihana]

We had Green Bay, New England, San Diego, Indianapolis, Pitt x2, Baltimore x2, and Detroit this year. On paper the schedule looked tough.

I have no doubts about our ability to navigate through a regular season and position ourselves for the playoffs. I also have no doubts about Dalton and Co. having a good regular season next year.

The question for Dalton, and everyone else on the team for that matter is when in the world are they going to play well in a playoff game? We weren't as bad as we played today. We've all watched all year and know that. It's no longer a coincidental bad game is all, it's a trend.

Agreed that it's hard to evaluate a schedule in the offseason on paper and agreed that they *may* be OK in the regular season.

However, I think that with this QB/HC combo they'll never get over the hump in the postseason (which is what matters) and moreover, I think that every year there is at least one -and frequently more than one- playoff team that totally regresses, and no one really sees it coming. Houston and Atlanta both did it this year, partially due to injuries, but partially due to their flaws being completely exposed (think Matt Schaub, think Andy Dalton). I fear that same fate with the 2014 Bengals. They just don't seem that real, especially at the two most important positions in the game.

And as much as we all talk about Dalton and Lewis in the clutch, where the hell has AJ Green been in the most important games? If you're going to be a premier, top 3 player at your position, you have to shine in those opportunities, not totally disappear like he's done in three straight playoff games. He's not the problem for sure, but unfortunately he hasn't been the answer you need from your premier players.

[Stray]

Agreed that it's hard to evaluate a schedule in the offseason on paper and agreed that they *may* be OK in the regular season.

However, I think that with this QB/HC combo they'll never get over the hump in the postseason (which is what matters) and moreover, I think that every year there is at least one -and frequently more than one- playoff team that totally regresses, and no one really sees it coming. Houston and Atlanta both did it this year, partially due to injuries, but partially due to their flaws being completely exposed (think Matt Schaub, think Andy Dalton). I fear that same fate with the 2014 Bengals. They just don't seem that real, especially at the two most important positions in the game.

And as much as we all talk about Dalton and Lewis in the clutch, where the hell has AJ Green been in the most important games? If you're going to be a premier, top 3 player at your position, you have to shine in those opportunities, not totally disappear like he's done in three straight playoff games. He's not the problem for sure, but unfortunately he hasn't been the answer you need from your premier players.

Dalton had a good regular season this year. He deserves the heat for his playoff performances, but in the regular season I trust him over 16 games to get us in position.

Agreed about AJ. I know he's a great receiver, but he's also played poorly in the playoffs. Also, in the division Ike Taylor and Joe Haden know how to cover him. That's 4 games each year.

I don't think we can just point at Dalton and/or Green for the playoffs tho. Across the board the team plays tight in these games. As much as I like what Marvin has done here, that tightness has to be coming from something he is or isn't doing. I don't think we just happened to get all of the players who lock up in the pressure games.

[Yachtzee]

Yes, I do. I'm not championing the man's baseball wits, or even overall wits, but noting that he had the Bengals pegged absolutely right. Sure we get Geno and Hall back, and that's good. But that's true for everyone - the Colts get Wayne back, the Pats get Gronk, Mayo and Wilfork back, the Broncos get Miller et al back, etc. This, I believed at least in my mind, was the Bengals year because EVERYBODY was down. Everybody was beatable, certainly by us, and especially at home. Of course as it turns out, as always, the Bengals let us down, and proved our faith wrong.

We have four defensive starters who are almost eligible for social security. Guys who were on their last leg, last year. MJ is a goner. Dre Kirkpatrick is an absolute bust, the biggest in the Marvin era. He should be released tomorrow, and I'm not exaggerating. The fact that he was the first round pick in the same year Burfict went undrafted is unbelievable.

We need a new RB to complement Gio. Law Firm is no good. Whitworth had a courageous year, but he too is mortal and getting (Very) long in the tooth. The Hippo is turning back into the Hippo, and Zeitler seemed to fall off as the year went on. The Bengals o-line has too many holes, as today's game showed, that they'll need to spend at least two top 40 picks to bolster those forces, just as they'll need to spend at least two top 40 picks to bolster the secondary. Problem is, we have only 1 of those top 40 picks this offseason, and we all know what the Bengals philosophy with regards to free agency is. And this doesn't even address what is by far the two biggest weaknesses on the team - the quarterback and the head coach.

I actually think the Bengals have a pretty good team all around except for the quarterback and the head coach. Unfortunately those are by far the two most important positions. And next year will be no different.

I'm confident Lewis and his team will do fine at finding quality players to fill needs in the off-season, as he has done every year. Every team has draft day busts, but Lewis seems to find quality players every year so that the entire draft comes out with some measure of success, unlike the pre-Lewis days when entire draft classes were wasted. I saw a stat at the last draft that no one has drafted more pro bowlers over the past 3-4 years than Marvin Lewis. Add Burfict to that as an undafted free agent and it's a pretty good track record.

If the Bengals had followed the advice of some of the posters here over that period, with the demands to fire Lewis and trade up to draft this guy or that, I think the Bengals would be like the Washington Redskins under Dan Snyder.

[Kingspoint]

The only goal is to win a Super Bowl.....ever.

With that in mind, Andy Dalton gives this team it's best chance in the 2014/15 Winter Season next year.

But, Dalton has not progressed enough from his first to his second or his second to his third season to believe anything other than....it's time to find his replacement. A "legitimate" replacement needs to be drafted next season to begin grooming him to surpass Dalton on the depth chart. Dalton's job should not be safe.

I'm ready to move on from Jay Gruden, too. He hasn't proven to me to be able to command enough leadership in the front office to produce the results needed on the field, along with leaving the play-calling to be full of head-scratchers throughout his third season.

The only reason we made the playoffs in the first place was because of a fluke injury to our LG, which forced Whitworth to Guard and Collins to LT, along with a fluke injury to RG, which forced Pollack to take over the deteriorating play of Kevin Zeitler.

[MWM]

It's easy to peg a team like the Bengals the way Shaughnessy did. It doesn't take any kind of insight or acumen to say those things. They are articles that write themselves without any thought going into them. They didn't know anything that anyone else doesn't know. Those things are said all the time about a lot of teams, and in many cases they wind up being true.....until they aren't any more. Plenty of teams with that label have broken through at some point and I see no reason why the Bengals can't. It's not like it's been 10 years of it. It's been 3 football games.

[reds1869]

Are you serious? You think RG3, Cutler, Flacco and Stafford are better than Dalton? That's the most delusional thing I've read all day, and that's REALLY saying something. And I would even take Carson, Bradford, and Manuel over Dalton. AND EVEN THEN, I still don't think he's significantly better than the rest of that list. He is hot garbage.
I'm pretty sure the poster meant that Dalton is better than every QB on that list.

[Wonderful Monds]

I'm pretty sure the poster meant that Dalton is better than every QB on that list.

Yes, that's what I was arguing against.

[reds1869]

Yes, that's what I was arguing against.

Got you. That's what I get for only reading the first few sentences of your post and responding.

[Benihana]

It's easy to peg a team like the Bengals the way Shaughnessy did. It doesn't take any kind of insight or acumen to say those things. They are articles that write themselves without any thought going into them. They didn't know anything that anyone else doesn't know. Those things are said all the time about a lot of teams, and in many cases they wind up being true.....until they aren't any more. Plenty of teams with that label have broken through at some point and I see no reason why the Bengals can't. It's not like it's been 10 years of it. It's been 3 football games.

Except that it HAS been 10 years of Lewis!!!! And he has never won a playoff game. What other coach in the history of the league has kept his job for 10 years without winning a playoff game?

Don't get me wrong - I very much appreciate how Lewis changed the culture here, and I think he has a lot of skill in personnel evaluation. The Bengals have drafted well, especially over the last few years. HOWEVER, that doesn't dispel the notion that his team can NEVER win the big game. Once can be a fluke, two a mere coincidence, thrice a trend is starting, four times, it is manifested, and five times it is confirmed.

Just like with Dusty, it is time for another coach to take this team to the next level. Just making the playoffs isn't enough, not with this talent. But alas, I don't think that Mike Brown has the guts.

[WMR]

Name me another team in the NFL that would keep a coach who had been there for 11 years without winning a SINGLE playoff game...

[Wonderful Monds]

Best case scenario at this point is hoping that a lack of interest and a bunch of blackouts next year forces actual changes.

[Yachtzee]

Except that it HAS been 10 years of Lewis!!!! And he has never won a playoff game. What other coach in the history of the league has kept his job for 10 years without winning a playoff game?

Don't get me wrong - I very much appreciate how Lewis changed the culture here, and I think he has a lot of skill in personnel evaluation. The Bengals have drafted well, especially over the last few years. HOWEVER, that doesn't dispel the notion that his team can NEVER win the big game. Once can be a fluke, two a mere coincidence, thrice a trend is starting, four times, it is manifested, and five times it is confirmed.

Just like with Dusty, it is time for another coach to take this team to the next level. Just making the playoffs isn't enough, not with this talent. But alas, I don't think that Mike Brown has the guts.

You can't really compare the situation with a baseball manager to that of a football coach. Baseball managers aren't involved in the drafting and development of players. With the Bengals, Lewis is akin to the manager, director of player personnel, and scouting director, as well as having some of the duties of a GM. Pretty much the only GM role he doesn't have is that he doesn't negotiate the contracts.

I would say that few coaches have had Lewis' record of getting his team to the playoffs. And IIRC, Tony Dungy's playoff record was pretty poor before the Colts won the Super Bowl. But he kept getting them to the playoffs and eventually they got off the schnide and won one. And he had the benefit of having Peyton Manning. Apparently Dalton is a terrible QB for some, yet Lewis has been able to get the Bengals to the playoffs with him at the helm. The key is keep getting your team to the playoffs.

[Wonderful Monds]

You can't really compare the situation with a baseball manager to that of a football coach. Baseball managers aren't involved in the drafting and development of players. With the Bengals, Lewis is akin to the manager, director of player personnel, and scouting director, as well as having some of the duties of a GM. Pretty much the only GM role he doesn't have is that he doesn't negotiate the contracts.

I would say that few coaches have had Lewis' record of getting his team to the playoffs. And IIRC, Tony Dungy's playoff record was pretty poor before the Colts won the Super Bowl. But he kept getting them to the playoffs and eventually they got off the schnide and won one. And he had the benefit of having Peyton Manning. Apparently Dalton is a terrible QB for some, yet Lewis has been able to get the Bengals to the playoffs with him at the helm. The key is keep getting your team to the playoffs.

I think this is all pretty dismissive of the fact that Dalton has 1 TD and 6 INT + more fumbles in the playoffs. He is not a playoff QB.

[Yachtzee]

Best case scenario at this point is hoping that a lack of interest and a bunch of blackouts next year forces actual changes.

If that were to happen, I'd be fine with the Bengals moving. A city that does that to a team that's been to the playoffs 3 years in a row doesn't deserve a team.

[Wonderful Monds]

If that were to happen, I'd be fine with the Bengals moving. A city that does that to a team that's been to the playoffs 3 years in a row doesn't deserve a team.

Making the playoffs means less than nothing. A team with a losing record can make the playoffs. The Bengals are a mediocre team at best, whether or not they go one and done in the playoffs every year.

[Benihana]

It's pretty simple: the Bengals don't need wholesale changes per se. They just need to bring in someone to challenge Dalton, or to get a new head coach. No sweeping personnel changes, no major front office restructuring, no major system changes, that's it.

I do realize changing one or both of those positions can have collateral effects on the areas I mentioned, but its not like they are rotten to the core. They are just rotten in the two areas where it matters most.

[Ohayou]

Literally anyone who isn't Andy Dalton, who may be the NFL's worst starting QB.


Are you serious? You think RG3, Cutler, Flacco and Stafford are better than Dalton? That's the most delusional thing I've read all day, and that's REALLY saying something.

...?

[Benihana]

You can't really compare the situation with a baseball manager to that of a football coach. Baseball managers aren't involved in the drafting and development of players. With the Bengals, Lewis is akin to the manager, director of player personnel, and scouting director, as well as having some of the duties of a GM. Pretty much the only GM role he doesn't have is that he doesn't negotiate the contracts.

I would say that few coaches have had Lewis' record of getting his team to the playoffs. And IIRC, Tony Dungy's playoff record was pretty poor before the Colts won the Super Bowl. But he kept getting them to the playoffs and eventually they got off the schnide and won one. And he had the benefit of having Peyton Manning. Apparently Dalton is a terrible QB for some, yet Lewis has been able to get the Bengals to the playoffs with him at the helm. The key is keep getting your team to the playoffs.

Fair enough, then Marvin is Wayne Krivsky AND Dusty Baker all rolled into one. Good talent evaluator, likeable players' coach, restored a once proud franchise back to respectability including multiple playoff appearances, but DOESN'T HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO GET THE TEAM TO THE NEXT LEVEL.

Tony Dungy had won a playoff game before the Colts won the SB. Again, its not like we are talking about the Bengals are getting really close but just not winning The Championship- THEY ARE NOT WINNING A SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME! EVER!! IN DECADES!!!

Just like with Krivsky and Dusty, it's time to (seriously) thank him for all that he has done for the organization (and it has been a LOT) and bring in someone who knows how to have his team ready for the big game. If he wants to retain a front office and (quasi-)GM role, I'd be fine with that. He's just not a winning head coach. His 90-90-1 (as well as 0-5) record over the last 11 years proves it. And I mean winning when it counts.

[Yachtzee]

It's pretty simple: the Bengals don't need wholesale changes per se. They just need to bring in someone to challenge Dalton, or to get a new head coach. No sweeping personnel changes, no major front office restructuring, no major system changes, that's it.

I do realize changing one or both of those positions can have collateral effects on the areas I mentioned, but its not like they are rotten to the core. They are just rotten in the two areas where it matters most.

Marvin is the system and a large part of the front office, and it took years for him to win Mike Brown's trust to give him those powers. Get rid of him and you get a strong likelihood that Mike Brown starts retaking an active role as GM and starts getting involved in drafting and acquisition of players. So maybe the first year head coach makes it to the playoffs with Marvin'e players, but after that I think the crash comes and the Bengals end up starting over from ground zero.

[Benihana]

Marvin is the system and a large part of the front office, and it took years for him to win Mike Brown's trust to give him those powers. Get rid of him and you get a strong likelihood that Mike Brown starts retaking an active role as GM and starts getting involved in drafting and acquisition of players. So maybe the first year head coach makes it to the playoffs with Marvin'e players, but after that I think the crash comes and the Bengals end up starting over from ground zero.

No, MB is too old to do that. Read the Daughtery interview. Ironically though, it was MB that really wanted to draft Kaepernick. It was Marvin's staff (Gruden) that insisted on Dalton.

[dabvu2498]

Name me another team in the NFL that would keep a coach who had been there for 11 years without winning a SINGLE playoff game...

The Indianapolis Colts hired a man with that exact resume.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/MoraJi0.htm

[Benihana]

The New Orleans Saints.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/MoraJi0.htm

Playoffs?

[MWM]

I'm scared to think what the Bengals would be like without Marvin Lewis.