2021 Cincinnati Bengals: Sewell or Bust!

[JaxRed]

In Mel Kiper's first mock draft, he has DeVonta Smith going #2 to the Jets and J'Marr Chase next to the Dolphins. Sewell falls to us. Also, Brett Favre thinks the Jags should draft DeVonta Smith #1 overall.

Is Favre still in concussion protocol?

[GAC]

Is Favre still in concussion protocol?

LMAO

Kiper is though!

[WVRed]

Kyle Pitts over Jamarr Chase:

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/nfl-mock-draft-6-jason-mcintyre

[Ohayou]

Kyle Pitts over Jamarr Chase:

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/nfl-mock-draft-6-jason-mcintyre

Kwity Paye 4, Micah Parsons 15, DeVonta Smith 16. Can't see it.

[WrongVerb]

I really would not mind if the Bengals traded down once or twice, and picked up additional day 2 picks. That's even if Sewell is on the board.

[KoryMac5]

I really would not mind if the Bengals traded down once or twice, and picked up additional day 2 picks. That's even if Sewell is on the board.

Trade down I could see a deal with Detroit if they can't make it up into the top 3 and a QB is sitting there when the Bengals pick...grab a 2nd rounder and move back 2 I would be fine with. Bengals are known to strike gold most of the time in round 2.

[Kingspoint]

So, Carolina with the #8 pick let it be known that they are going to be aggressive in getting a QB.

[KoryMac5]

So, Carolina with the #8 pick let it be known that they are going to be aggressive in getting a QB.

I think they are trying to get Watson but don't have the draft capital Miami and the Jets have...#5 might look attractive to both Detroit and Carolina come draft night, depends on how locked in the Bengals are and what they do in FA.

[RiverRat13]

It would be nice if an NFC team got Watson. Too many good young QBs in the AFC already.

[RichRed]

It would be nice if an NFC team got Watson. Too many good young QBs in the AFC already.

I'll take him in Washington if it makes everyone feel better.

[krm1580]

Don't see how anybody can pass on DeVonta Smith except for Lawrence

I like almost everything about DeVonta Smith and if he was in a Calvin Johnson - Julio Jones type frame I would 100% agree with you. The problem is he is listed at 170 lbs, (with a pretty good chance he is lighter than that) and a frame that does not look like its going to be able to add on a lot of weight.

I think there is a near zero chance of him being a bust, but I can see a very real possibility of him being relegated to an inside slot guy so he does not get tossed around by NFL corners. If that is the case, I like him, but not enough to be #2 overall pick in the draft.

[Redsfaithful]

I would not take a WR that small in the top 10, period, ever. I'm sure that would mean I'd miss on a guy here or there but I'm ok with some other team taking that risk. Health is a skill too, and good luck staying healthy as an NFL WR at 6'1 175.

[Bob Sheed]

...playing the Steelers twice a year.

[Ohayou]

I would not take a WR that small in the top 10, period, ever. I'm sure that would mean I'd miss on a guy here or there but I'm ok with some other team taking that risk. Health is a skill too, and good luck staying healthy as an NFL WR at 6'1 175.

If he does weigh 175 or more, then I wouldn't be too worried, but some people are saying 160ish and IDK where they're getting that info from lol. Probably his HS weight.

Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson, TY Hilton, Tyreek Hill, Brandin Cooks...all pretty light guys. Marquise Brown weighed 165 pre 2019 draft and is listed in the 180s now.

[Redsfaithful]

If he does weigh 175 or more, then I wouldn't be too worried, but some people are saying 160ish and IDK where they're getting that info from lol. Probably his HS weight.

Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson, TY Hilton, Tyreek Hill, Brandin Cooks...all pretty light guys. Marquise Brown weighed 165 pre 2019 draft and is listed in the 180s now.

Of course, with hindsight all of those guys would have returned good value for a top 10 pick, for sure, but like I said, I know that stance means I'd miss some good receivers. It's just too much risk for me. I do think he will be a very good NFL player.

[JaxRed]

Didn't see this mentioned but Smith declined being weighed at Senior Bowl.

[WVRed]

If he does weigh 175 or more, then I wouldn't be too worried, but some people are saying 160ish and IDK where they're getting that info from lol. Probably his HS weight.

Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson, TY Hilton, Tyreek Hill, Brandin Cooks...all pretty light guys. Marquise Brown weighed 165 pre 2019 draft and is listed in the 180s now.

Brandin Cooks and Hollywood Brown are the only first rounders are they were late first rounders, not top five picks.

I don’t think any receiver should be taken that high unless you are sure it’s AJ Green/Julio Jones return.

[redsfandan]

Didn't see this mentioned but Smith declined being weighed at Senior Bowl.

Odd, I wonder if his agent thought that was a good idea.

[Ohayou]

Brandin Cooks and Hollywood Brown are the only first rounders are they were late first rounders, not top five picks.

I don’t think any receiver should be taken that high unless you are sure it’s AJ Green/Julio Jones return.

I understand the hesitation, but DeVonta Smith also re-wrote record books while playing in the toughest conference in CFB. There's a reason why he's being considered a Top 5 pick and not just a 1st rounder. He's at the top of a lot of Dolphins, Eagles, Lions, and Giants fans draft wish lists, although with all these QBs on the move, that changes things obviously.

[Redsfaithful]

Expanding on previous thoughts, I'd encourage anyone to go to a training camp, where you can be 10 feet from NFL players. I really had no idea how huge these people are before doing that.

Can't really reiterate how much 6'1, 175 lbs is a normal human size vs. all of these other players who look like members of a different species. A good example? AJ Green, who looks slender on televison. The guy is seriously enormous. The kind of size where if you knew him in regular day to day life he would be about the biggest human being you'd ever met.

Again, Smith will be great, but he's going to get decleated at some point by some nobody linebacker who is nevertheless 6'2, 225 lbs and it's hard to imagine his body holding up to that over the years.

[WVRed]

I understand the hesitation, but DeVonta Smith also re-wrote record books while playing in the toughest conference in CFB. There's a reason why he's being considered a Top 5 pick and not just a 1st rounder. He's at the top of a lot of Dolphins, Eagles, Lions, and Giants fans draft wish lists, although with all these QBs on the move, that changes things obviously.

By comparison, John Ross was 5’11 and 188.

Obviously he didn’t have the accolades of Smith (or Chase) but he had a 4.22 40 which was a record at the time of the combine.

My concern is with both Chase and Smith is that receivers taken with similar profiles early in the first haven’t exactly panned out. For all the Jamarr Chase love, there is Justin Blackmon.

[RiverRat13]

Smith doesn't fit the profile of Bengals WRs. The Bengals typically take WRs who were the first option early in their college careers. Smith didn't dominate until he was 22, and you still have to wonder how much of his production would have been cut had Waddle stayed healthy all year. Chase dominated at age 19. That's right up the Bengals alley.

We were all worried that beating the Texans would cost Sewell. It's looking more and more that he will be there at 5 and that the Texans win will cost the Bengals a chance to get a bounty from the Lions or Broncos moving up to 3.

[WVRed]

Smith doesn't fit the profile of Bengals WRs. The Bengals typically take WRs who were the first option early in their college careers. Smith didn't dominate until he was 22, and you still have to wonder how much of his production would have been cut had Waddle stayed healthy all year. Chase dominated at age 19. That's right up the Bengals alley.

We were all worried that beating the Texans would cost Sewell. It's looking more and more that he will be there at 5 and that the Texans win will cost the Bengals a chance to get a bounty from the Lions or Broncos moving up to 3.

The Bengals aren’t in the business of making other teams better.

-Mike Brown

[RiverRat13]

The Bengals aren’t in the business of making other teams better.

-Mike Brown

The Bengals traded down three straight years (2017-19). Twice in the second round, and once in the first round. The also traded down the year they got Zeitler. While they obviously screwed up 20 years ago not trading out of the Akili pick, recent history shows they are more willing to do so than their reputation.

[Hillsdale87]

By comparison, John Ross was 5’11 and 188.

Obviously he didn’t have the accolades of Smith (or Chase) but he had a 4.22 40 which was a record at the time of the combine.

My concern is with both Chase and Smith is that receivers taken with similar profiles early in the first haven’t exactly panned out. For all the Jamarr Chase love, there is Justin Blackmon.

Blackmon didn't bust because of his physical profile. He couldn't stay clean.

Players at every position of every physical profile have busted. There is always risk with every pick. But if you combine Chase's age with his college production, he appears about as safe as can be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hillsdale87]

Expanding on previous thoughts, I'd encourage anyone to go to a training camp, where you can be 10 feet from NFL players. I really had no idea how huge these people are before doing that.

Can't really reiterate how much 6'1, 175 lbs is a normal human size vs. all of these other players who look like members of a different species. A good example? AJ Green, who looks slender on televison. The guy is seriously enormous. The kind of size where if you knew him in regular day to day life he would be about the biggest human being you'd ever met.

Again, Smith will be great, but he's going to get decleated at some point by some nobody linebacker who is nevertheless 6'2, 225 lbs and it's hard to imagine his body holding up to that over the years.

I rode in an elevator last year with Carson Palmer. He is of course very tall, but I couldn't believe how thick he was. You would have thought he had been a DE.

Same with Esaiason. I played in a charity flag football game where he was the QB a couple years ago. He came up behind me and bear hugged me, and it felt like he could have crushed my whole body. And that's just the QBs. Most of them look lanky on TV, but they're built like tanks, which makes sense if you're going to take the pounding that they do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redsfaithful]

I rode in an elevator last year with Carson Palmer. He is of course very tall, but I couldn't believe how thick he was. You would have thought he had been a DE.

Same with Esaiason. I played in a charity flag football game where he was the QB a couple years ago. He came up behind me and bear hugged me, and it felt like he could have crushed my whole body. And that's just the QBs. Most of them look lanky on TV, but they're built like tanks, which makes sense if you're going to take the pounding that they do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, exactly. It's not just height and muscle, it's things like wingspan, broadness of shoulders, etc. It truly doesn't come across watching on television or even from the stands if you're too far back.

It's actually mindblowing to me that these guys are all so huge and yet still so fast.

[WVRed]

Blackmon didn't bust because of his physical profile. He couldn't stay clean.

Players at every position of every physical profile have busted. There is always risk with every pick. But if you combine Chase's age with his college production, he appears about as safe as can be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But he does profile as a similar receiver to what Blackmon could have been.

I realize Blackmon and Ross aren’t the best comparisons but how many receivers have been taken in the top 10 that aren’t physical specimens (AJ, Julio, Megatron) that have panned out?

[Ohayou]

We were all worried that beating the Texans would cost Sewell. It's looking more and more that he will be there at 5 and that the Texans win will cost the Bengals a chance to get a bounty from the Lions or Broncos moving up to 3.

Wait, why would the Lions want to move up to 3? Chase/Smith? If they stay put at 7, I'm guessing Waddle or Parsons.

I have a question for everyone, how would you feel if Sewell/Chase are both on the board at 5, and the Bengals pick Chase?

[RiverRat13]

Wait, why would the Lions want to move up to 3? Chase/Smith? If they stay put at 7, I'm guessing Waddle or Parsons.

I have a question for everyone, how would you feel if Sewell/Chase are both on the board at 5, and the Bengals pick Chase?Assuming they want a young QB other than Goff. Which may be the wrong assumption. They may ride with Goff a season to see if they can turn him around and get a QB next year if he doesn't work out.

[Hillsdale87]

But he does profile as a similar receiver to what Blackmon could have been.

I realize Blackmon and Ross aren’t the best comparisons but how many receivers have been taken in the top 10 that aren’t physical specimens (AJ, Julio, Megatron) that have panned out?

Justin Blackmon would have been a superstar if he didn't have problems. He had a good rookie season with Blaine Gabbert and Chad Henne throwing to him.

There aren't a lot of examples of guys who aren't physical specimens being picked in the top 10. There also aren't any guys who ever had the season that Chase had, especially as a 19 year old sophomore. But he's not a scrub athlete either. Bruce Feldman listed him #19 in his annual College Football Freaks list. Justin Jefferson had an incredible rookie season, but Chase was significantly better even though he was two years younger. The odds are heavily in Chase's favor that he will be very good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[forfreelin04]

Expanding on previous thoughts, I'd encourage anyone to go to a training camp, where you can be 10 feet from NFL players. I really had no idea how huge these people are before doing that.

Can't really reiterate how much 6'1, 175 lbs is a normal human size vs. all of these other players who look like members of a different species. A good example? AJ Green, who looks slender on televison. The guy is seriously enormous. The kind of size where if you knew him in regular day to day life he would be about the biggest human being you'd ever met.

Again, Smith will be great, but he's going to get decleated at some point by some nobody linebacker who is nevertheless 6'2, 225 lbs and it's hard to imagine his body holding up to that over the years.

Totally agree. I was at Nada in Cincy once and Andy Dalton came in with Leon Hall. I wasn't star struck by seeing them, but I was baffled at how big they were.

Here's my take on Smith.

Desmond Howard was the last pure WR to win the Heisman. How'd that NFL career work out? He became something more successful as a return man than a wideout. 40He never broke 800 yards receiving in the NFL. Pretty low return for a guy that the Redskins traded up with our beloved Bengals to get the no 4 overall pick.

This is all kind of eerily similar to where Smith will probably fall 3-4-5. I watched in dismay when Smith torched the Buckeyes in the first half. What boggled my mind was how open he was in many situations and the Buckeyes would just completely lose sight of him. No one can deny he's got speed and good hands, but was he more of a product of a dominant offense run by Sarkisian?

I personally hope the Bengals stay away from Smith (wide receiver is not a glaring hole on this team). I could certainly eat crow. But I'm in the Sewell or trade back crowd. I also think taking Slater straight up at number 5 overall would be a mistake too. His last full season for NW he didn't even crack the Second Team All Big-Ten Team. He was an honorable mention. I don't get the hype there.

Finally, Chase at number 5? I'm skeptical. He has one full season starting and he was spectacular with Joe in 2019, but Tyler Boyd is a similar receiver, and I think he's great. We got him the second round. He topped 1,000 yards twice and would have easily a third year in a row if Burrow had played the whole season. Probably would have achieved a career high.

[Redsfaithful]

I would like to know how real this age stuff is - if it's legit that it's that meaningful that Chase was so good at 19 then I'm on board, I get that logic.

I do just hope the Bengals end up with Sewell, it seems like the biggest no brainer pick.

[Kingspoint]

The Bengals traded down three straight years (2017-19). Twice in the second round, and once in the first round. The also traded down the year they got Zeitler. While they obviously screwed up 20 years ago not trading out of the Akili pick, recent history shows they are more willing to do so than their reputation.

They for sure have proven they will trade down. What they won't do, is trade up in the 1st Rd. They won't target an impact player and get him if that might require trading up in the 1st Round, where impact players get taken.

[Hillsdale87]

Totally agree. I was at Nada in Cincy once and Andy Dalton came in with Leon Hall. I wasn't star struck by seeing them, but I was baffled at how big they were.

Here's my take on Smith.

Desmond Howard was the last pure WR to win the Heisman. How'd that NFL career work out? He became something more successful as a return man than a wideout. 40He never broke 800 yards receiving in the NFL. Pretty low return for a guy that the Redskins traded up with our beloved Bengals to get the no 4 overall pick.

This is all kind of eerily similar to where Smith will probably fall 3-4-5. I watched in dismay when Smith torched the Buckeyes in the first half. What boggled my mind was how open he was in many situations and the Buckeyes would just completely lose sight of him. No one can deny he's got speed and good hands, but was he more of a product of a dominant offense run by Sarkisian?

I personally hope the Bengals stay away from Smith (wide receiver is not a glaring hole on this team). I could certainly eat crow. But I'm in the Sewell or trade back crowd. I also think taking Slater straight up at number 5 overall would be a mistake too. His last full season for NW he didn't even crack the Second Team All Big-Ten Team. He was an honorable mention. I don't get the hype there.

Finally, Chase at number 5? I'm skeptical. He has one full season starting and he was spectacular with Joe in 2019, but Tyler Boyd is a similar receiver, and I think he's great. We got him the second round. He topped 1,000 yards twice and would have easily a third year in a row if Burrow had played the whole season. Probably would have achieved a career high.

Wide receiver is one of the biggest needs the Bengals have. They have Boyd, Higgins, and nothing else. Whether it be draft or FA, getting an impact WR is critical.

And Chase is nothing like Boyd. Boyd is a slot receiver with below average speed. He's awesome in the slot, but he can't play outside. Chase is a true #1 who can line up all over the place and dominate. That's what the Bengals need


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bob Sheed]

QBs like Burrow don't need elite WRs.

They do however, require their legs to not be broken.

That's why you take Sewell if he is on the board.

[WVRed]

QBs like Burrow don't need elite WRs.

They do however, require their legs to not be broken.

That's why you take Sewell if he is on the board.

This.

Ben Roethlisberger and Tom Brady have made lesser known WRs a lot of money.

[Kingspoint]

Mike Brown likes Top-10 LT's more than he likes Top-10 WR's. After going through the disappointment that was John Ross, it's even moreso now. It's going to be extremely difficult to convince Mike Brown, if he makes the final decision, on taking a WR with thw 5th overall pick.

[WVRed]

Mike Brown likes Top-10 LT's more than he likes Top-10 WR's. After going through the disappointment that was John Ross, it's even moreso now. It's going to be extremely difficult to convince Mike Brown, if he makes the final decision, on taking a WR with thw 5th overall pick.

So if Sewell is gone based on this, who’s the pick? Slater?

[krm1580]

Wide receiver is one of the biggest needs the Bengals have. They have Boyd, Higgins, and nothing else. Whether it be draft or FA, getting an impact WR is critical.

And Chase is nothing like Boyd. Boyd is a slot receiver with below average speed. He's awesome in the slot, but he can't play outside. Chase is a true #1 who can line up all over the place and dominate. That's what the Bengals need Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its one of those stupid things but I think 40 times will have a pretty big impact on who goes where. If Chase runs sub 4.40, I think he is going to be the first receiver picked.

DeVonta Smith, and this will sound weird, is a bit of a tweener to me. The guys with his body types who are successful in the NFL are blazers that create space with their speed and run very limited route trees. Smith's strengths though are precision routes and hands which are normally that hallmarks of bigger guys. I am not sure how the mismatch of his skills/body type is going to translate to the NFL. I think he will be a good NFL player, I am just not comfortable taking him in the top 5. In fact, I would not be surprised if Jaylen Waddle had a better NFL career even though he is not as polished a receiver.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[WrongVerb]

Shaq Barrett was all for signing with the Bengals — here’s why he didn’t (https://theathletic.com/2359855/2021/02/01/shaq-barrett-was-all-for-signing-with-the-bengals-heres-why-he-didnt/)


New Bengals coach Zac Taylor and the Bengals’ personnel staff liked what they’d seen out of Barrett in his sub-package, reserve role in Denver and envisioned a world he could be a great asset to a defense needing more pop in the pass rush.

They brought him to Cincinnati on a visit. They were his most aggressive pursuer. Things were going well. It appeared he might end up with the Bengals.

What happened next? Well, I asked Barrett what happened during his Zoom availability on Media Day for Super Bowl LV as the premier pass rusher for the dynamic Bucs defense and owner of 27.5 sacks the last two seasons.

Let’s let him tell it.

“They said I had something with my shoulder or something that — I don’t have anything with my shoulder,” Barrett said. “That’s when they pulled off, which had me pretty upset because I was putting all my eggs into that basket. I thought Cincinnati would have been the right move for me and they offered me a two-year contract and my agent was sure he could get me up a little bit more than what they offered so it would have been the most money I’d ever made with the most security. And that’s all I wanted was security and stability for my family. It was a gut shot once they pulled the contract offer, but I didn’t hear from anybody else about anything from the teams I visited about any shoulder injury because I never had a shoulder injury.”

Barrett instead signed a one-year, $4 million contract with the Bucs.

[Kingspoint]

Shaq Barrett was all for signing with the Bengals — here’s why he didn’t (https://theathletic.com/2359855/2021/02/01/shaq-barrett-was-all-for-signing-with-the-bengals-heres-why-he-didnt/)

Great negotiating tactic by the Bengals. "Let's create a reason to pay him less by making up a story about his potential health problems. Yeah, that will get him to meet our price."

Bungles Negotiating 101.

[Hillsdale87]

QBs like Burrow don't need elite WRs.

They do however, require their legs to not be broken.

That's why you take Sewell if he is on the board.

This is not true. Yes, a good OL is great, and I hope the Bengals get one. What they rolled out this year was unacceptable, and it needs to get better. So yeah, we need an OL that won't get Burrow pummeled. But if I had the choice between an elite OL and average WRs or average OL and elite WRs, I would take the WRs by a large margin. Look at the Chiefs this year. They've played most of the season with backup linemen almost across the board.

[Hillsdale87]

This.

Ben Roethlisberger and Tom Brady have made lesser known WRs a lot of money.

Lesser known maybe, but they still had elite WRs. Santonio Holmes was a first round pick, Antonio Brown was a late round pick but one of the best WRs in football for a long stretch. If the Bengals had a

Brady had the greatest coach in NFL history, and then he was throwing to Randy Moss, one of the greatest WRs of all time, Wes Welker, one of the greatest slot WRs of all time, and Rob Gronkowski, probably the greatest TE of all time. Yes, Brady probably made those guys better, but Moss and Gronk were elite players no matter what.

Elite QBs elevate the WRs, but elite WRs also elevate QBs.

[Betterread]

QBs like Burrow don't need elite WRs.

Well, Burrow had an elite year in 2019 as a collegiate and he did have elite WRs. Alabama also had Pro-track WRs and QB, but Burrow, Jefferson and Chase proved they were a higher level.
As a pro, Burrow shows great potential and looks like a QB to build around, but he has not produced “elite” numbers or wins yet. Let’s wait till he at least throws for 5,000 yards and 40 tds or get his team in a championship game situation before you put the “elite” tag in him.

[KoryMac5]

Shaq Barrett was all for signing with the Bengals — here’s why he didn’t (https://theathletic.com/2359855/2021/02/01/shaq-barrett-was-all-for-signing-with-the-bengals-heres-why-he-didnt/)

I think the majority of us were excited about signing Shaq as he was underutilized in Denver...Bengals always get cheap at the wrong time...Rule #1 of negotiating with Mike Brow never try to squeeze him for more $$.

[KoryMac5]

Hopefully the Bengals capitalize on their draft position.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bengals-could-winners-matthew-stafford-135843454.html

[Kingspoint]

So if Sewell is gone based on this, who’s the pick? Slater?

No idea. Haven't looked at the prospects at all. Just know that Sewell is a once in a generation LT, another Anthony Munoz.

[Kingspoint]

Burrow is going to have a Ty Higgins who has had a full season and, hopefully, a full training camp, instead of a Ty Higgins who had no off-season whatsoever, basically no training camp, and only a couple of games as a Rookie. He wasn't even starting for most of the time Burrow had to work with him. So, as far as I'm concerned, he already has a Top-10 1st Round brand new WR that he didn't have last season. Add that to Boyd and he has two exceptional WR's. We don't need another 1A WR or even a #2 option. A #3 option that can be added through Free Agency would be a perfect fit, while Uzomah should be a very good 4th option. We have RB's who can catch the ball, too. There are plenty of Receiver options for him,...more than he needs. What he doesn't have is an Offensive Line of quality. This he needs badly for a million reasons. If Sewell isn't there, trade down and turn the pick into multiple starters.

[Redsfaithful]

Burrow is going to have a Ty Higgins who has had a full season and, hopefully, a full training camp, instead of a Ty Higgins who had no off-season whatsoever, basically no training camp, and only a couple of games as a Rookie.

I agree with this, some of the WR talk I think isn't optimistic enough about the potential of Higgins.

It would be really nice if they could take a WR in the 3rd/4th rounds and hit on the pick like they have in the past with guys like Chris Henry/Mo Sanu/Marvin Jones.

[Redsfaithful]

PFF gave the Bengals the #1 most productive rookie class in the NFL in 2020:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-most-productive-2020-rookie-draft-classes

[WVRed]

Lesser known maybe, but they still had elite WRs. Santonio Holmes was a first round pick, Antonio Brown was a late round pick but one of the best WRs in football for a long stretch. If the Bengals had a

Brady had the greatest coach in NFL history, and then he was throwing to Randy Moss, one of the greatest WRs of all time, Wes Welker, one of the greatest slot WRs of all time, and Rob Gronkowski, probably the greatest TE of all time. Yes, Brady probably made those guys better, but Moss and Gronk were elite players no matter what.

Elite QBs elevate the WRs, but elite WRs also elevate QBs.

None of the receivers you listed were top 5 or even top 10 picks.

Then again Brady was a 6th round pick so it kinda throws the argument out the window either way.

[Betterread]

None of the receivers you listed were top 5 or even top 10 picks.

Then again Brady was a 6th round pick so it kinda throws the argument out the window either way.

Wow! No love for Randy Moss from a West Virginian. He is probably the best athlete ever from your state. Unless you think Jerry West or Marylou Reston can run faster or jump higher (maybe MaryLou can jump higher).

[Hillsdale87]

None of the receivers you listed were top 5 or even top 10 picks.

Then again Brady was a 6th round pick so it kinda throws the argument out the window either way.

But that's a different argument. You were saying that great QBs don't need great WRs. And the point is that great QBs do need elite WRs, which doesn't mean that they were necessarily drafted high (although Moss would have been a top pick if not for character concerns). Elite players have been found from 1st round to undrafted, but they're most likely to be found at the top.

The Bengals need a significant upgrade at WR. I don't think that they necessarily need an elite WR, but they should be targeting a viable, good 1B opposite Higgins. But if they don't get an elite WR, they had better get an elite OL, whether that's in FA, or Sewell/Slater. One of those positions needs to be upgraded with a long-term, elite level talent.

[Betterread]

PFF gave the Bengals the #1 most productive rookie class in the NFL in 2020:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-most-productive-2020-rookie-draft-classes

I would agree. Four teams had two draftees that became starters with good PFF Grades (Wash, TB, Min and Cin) but with quality starters at QB and WR, Cin. Had the two starters at more key positions than the other teams.

[Betterread]

But that's a different argument. You were saying that great QBs don't need great WRs. And the point is that great QBs do need elite WRs, which doesn't mean that they were necessarily drafted high (although Moss would have been a top pick if not for character concerns). Elite players have been found from 1st round to undrafted, but they're most likely to be found at the top.

The Bengals need a significant upgrade at WR. I don't think that they necessarily need an elite WR, but they should be targeting a viable, good 1B opposite Higgins. But if they don't get an elite WR, they had better get an elite OL, whether that's in FA, or Sewell/Slater. One of those positions needs to be upgraded with a long-term, elite level talent.

QBs need Wrs who can get consistently get open and catch the ball. Wrs need QBs who can consistently deliver the ball on time and on target.
In the pros just about all QBs and Wrs are talented enough to some of those things some of the time. Great ones are the ones who consistently meet positional requirements, and that includes staying healthy or at least playing well through injury. Players that get hurt can’t perform.

[Kingspoint]

Tee Higgins is an elite WR. It's why they took him, instead of addressing other needs. He is Green's replacement. Boyd is a WR1. We're set at WR and there's no need to use a 1st or 2nd Round pick this year on one. None whatsoever. Would be a wasted pick to use either on a WR this year.

[WrongVerb]

Tee Higgins is an elite WR. It's why they took him, instead of addressing other needs. He is Green's replacement. Boyd is a WR1. We're set at WR and there's no need to use a 1st or 2nd Round pick this year on one. None whatsoever. Would be a wasted pick to use either on a WR this year.

Slightly disagree. The Bengals could use a good slot guy, a smaller receiver who can work the middle. Or else someone like Tyreek Hill...a Jack of all trades. The team also needs a move TE. But both of those can be had later in the draft. Don't expend an early picks on a WR, but if the right TE value is there, the team should take him.

[Hillsdale87]

Slightly disagree. The Bengals could use a good slot guy, a smaller receiver who can work the middle. Or else someone like Tyreek Hill...a Jack of all trades. The team also needs a move TE. But both of those can be had later in the draft. Don't expend an early picks on a WR, but if the right TE value is there, the team should take him.

Tyler Boyd is that slot guy.

Higgins is very good. He may end up elite, but he is not elite yet. Right now the Bengals have a promising 2nd year WR, a good slot guy, and a mediocre receiving TE coming off a torn Achilles. They don't need a WR at 5 necessarily, but they need one either at 37 or FA. If FA, I hope they can get Curtis Samuel. He's likely within their budget but with a lot of upside


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ohayou]

There's a good chance that Burrow's other LSU WR, Terrace Marshall, is there at 37.

[Bob Sheed]

There's a good chance that Burrow's other LSU WR, Terrace Marshall, is there at 37.

The Bengals have been known to prioritize player's opinions of ex-collegiate teammates.

They did it with TJ via Chad Johnson's recommendation. That worked out very well.

I remember I think they did it with Peter Warrick's WR teammate in college and that did not work out as well. I can't remember his name now. Really big WR, but really slow, so he contributed to the defense stacking the box because no one respected his speed not even a little bit. I think he stone hands like a TE too. I'm going to have to look him up now, lol.

It would be hilarious if they took both LSU WRs with their #1 and #2 picks. That would probably be the most Bengals thing ever, regardless of how it ended up working out.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Dugans :rolleyes: That guy...

[forfreelin04]

What about Surtain Jr if Sewell isn't there?

Let William Jackson walk. Spend the freed up dollars on FA O-line, defensive end, and a WR3. Could also lock up Lawson long term.

[KoryMac5]

What about Surtain Jr if Sewell isn't there?

Let William Jackson walk. Spend the freed up dollars on FA O-line, defensive end, and a WR3. Could also lock up Lawson long term.

If Jackson walks out the door you have 0 CB depth...Taylor said he wants him back but I think it depends on price.

[Redsfaithful]

The Bengals have been known to prioritize player's opinions of ex-collegiate teammates.

They did it with TJ via Chad Johnson's recommendation. That worked out very well.

I remember I think they did it with Peter Warrick's WR teammate in college and that did not work out as well. I can't remember his name now. Really big WR, but really slow, so he contributed to the defense stacking the box because no one respected his speed not even a little bit. I think he stone hands like a TE too. I'm going to have to look him up now, lol.

It would be hilarious if they took both LSU WRs with their #1 and #2 picks. That would probably be the most Bengals thing ever, regardless of how it ended up working out.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Dugans :rolleyes: That guy...

You'll enjoy this, it's about Peter Warrick, but Dugans comes up:

Dorktown: Appreciating the first couple years of Peter Warrick’s career

https://www.sbnation.com/secret-base/21565475/peter-warrick-cincinnati-bengals-akili-smith-jon-kitna-dorktown

[RiverRat13]

Saw an exchange on Twitter between Lindsay Patterson and Jake Liscow about the biggest unknown in 2021. Liscow posted the following:

CB2
3-tech 1
RG
RT
ZWR (assuming Higgins is the XWR)
SCB
C
LG

That is a lot of holes to fill in one offseason. I think it is also assuming Lawson is re-signed.

[Bob Sheed]

You'll enjoy this, it's about Peter Warrick, but Dugans comes up:

Dorktown: Appreciating the first couple years of Peter Warrick’s career

https://www.sbnation.com/secret-base/21565475/peter-warrick-cincinnati-bengals-akili-smith-jon-kitna-dorktown

Yep, I remember reading about the Warrick statistical anomalies years ago.

Those were some comically awful Bengals seasons.

[Kingspoint]

Nobody ran more miles going nowhere than Peter Warrick. Add in that babyhands couldn't throw a 5-yd pass accurately or lead him so he wouldn't get killed mafe things worse.

That was some awful, "we'll go with what we got years", and that was better than Snoslet and Klinkler.

[WrongVerb]

Why do I have this sinking feeling that the Bengals are going to take Fitts at 5?

[UKFlounder]

A feeling in the Pitts of your stomach?



Why do I have this sinking feeling that the Bengals are going to take Fitts at 5?

[Kingspoint]

Food for thought regarding all positions and filling a need through Free Agency:

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

The Athletic's Rich Hammond floats RT Rob Havenstein as a potential cap casualty for the Rams. With Matthew Stafford's contract joining Jared Goff and Todd Gurley's dead money in a year where the salary cap is plunging, the Rams are really up against it. Havenstein boasts the team's eighth highest cap hit at $8.33 million. The 28-year-old had an awful 2019 before bouncing back in a big way in 2020. The Rams have learned the hard way the paramount importance of keeping the quarterback upright, and moving on from Havenstein would not be the best way to welcome in Stafford. But at some point, the numbers will be the numbers for cap-strapped teams this offseason. There will be more than one Havenstein to lose their job.

SOURCE: The Athletic

[membengal]

The Draft Network article Slater v. Sewell:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/penei-sewell-rashawn-slater-ot1-2021-nfl-draft

[KoryMac5]

Why do I have this sinking feeling that the Bengals are going to take Fitts at 5?

I don't see it as they love CJ Uzomah...they may take a TE later though. Pitts is a unique talent though.

[WVRed]

Why do I have this sinking feeling that the Bengals are going to take Fitts at 5?

I like Pitts as a trade down option. He’s very athletic for a TE in the games I’ve watched him in the SEC this year. That alone would make him an enticing toy for Burrow but my concern has been his ability to stay healthy. The last thing we need is to invest a draft pick into Tyler Eifert 2.0.

That said there are more pressing needs than TE.

[Redsfaithful]

If you could guarantee me Pitts is Travis Kelce, then I could see it, but that's a tough ask. You'd like to get someone with a high floor in addition to high ceiling and TEs are constantly injured.

[WVRed]

If you could guarantee me Pitts is Travis Kelce, then I could see it, but that's a tough ask. You'd like to get someone with a high floor in addition to high ceiling and TEs are constantly injured.

At one point I was hoping Drew Sample would be George Kittle.

[RiverRat13]

The Draft Network article Slater v. Sewell:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/penei-sewell-rashawn-slater-ot1-2021-nfl-draft

Thanks for the link.

If the Bengals were picking at 15, you could talk me into the more sure technician. At 5, give me the upside guy.

[membengal]

Thanks for the link.

If the Bengals were picking at 15, you could talk me into the more sure technician. At 5, give me the upside guy.

<nods in agreement>

[WVRed]

Thoughts on this draft I keep generating?

1.Penei Sewell (OT-Oregon)
2.Azeez Ojulari (EDGE-Georgia)
3.Tommy Togiai (DT-Ohio State)
4.Dyami Brown (WR-UNC)

5-7 is pretty interchangeable but I’m pretty high on the defensive players with possibly losing Lawson and Geno being a likely cap casualty. Dyami Brown would be a steal in the 4th.

[Bob Sheed]

Watching Mahommes in the Super Bowl last night, he reminded me of someone.

1. Pure talent at QB
2. No time in the pocket, running for his life
3. Taking some very hard shots, sometimes to the head.
4. Circus throws, scrambling
5. Poor performance

I'll bet Burrow had some deja vu last night too.

[RedTeamGo!]

Watching Mahommes in the Super Bowl last night, he reminded me of someone.

1. Pure talent at QB
2. No time in the pocket, running for his life
3. Taking some very hard shots, sometimes to the head.
4. Circus throws, scrambling
5. Poor performance

I'll bet Burrow had some deja vu last night too.

Last night was proof how important a good O-line is. This is why you absolutely must draft a potentially elite OT alike Sewell if you’re the bengals. The chiefs are absolutely loaded at the skill positions and have one of the best QBs in the history of football. They were down their OTs and they got completely destroyed and couldn’t score a TD. Mahomes could not do anything. I can’t imagine watching the bengals in 2020 and then Mahomes last night and being like “the Bengals should draft a TE in the first round” lol.

[Hillsdale87]

Watching Mahommes in the Super Bowl last night, he reminded me of someone.

1. Pure talent at QB
2. No time in the pocket, running for his life
3. Taking some very hard shots, sometimes to the head.
4. Circus throws, scrambling
5. Poor performance

I'll bet Burrow had some deja vu last night too.

That Chiefs OL performance had to be worse than anything the Bengals OL put together this year. I thought they would struggle but didn't expect that level of dominance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WVRed]

Last night was proof how important a good O-line is. This is why you absolutely must draft a potentially elite OT alike Sewell if you’re the bengals. The chiefs are absolutely loaded at the skill positions and have one of the best QBs in the history of football. They were down their OTs and they got completely destroyed and couldn’t score a TD. Mahomes could not do anything. I can’t imagine watching the bengals in 2020 and then Mahomes last night and being like “the Bengals should draft a TE in the first round” lol.

Hey the Chiefs have Travis Kielce!

They drafted him in the third round but nevermind that.

[Redsfaithful]

Not a fan of seeing Brady winning another ring, but I'm glad that lesson was reinforced for the Bengals last night. They have to get the line right - really lineS, they are super deficient with the pass rush too.

I'm convinced failing to resign Lawson would be as disastrous as any other mistake they could make this offseason.

[Wonderful Monds]

Yeah they really need to trade up for Sewell honestly, fill other holes through free agency if you need to. They need a foundational lineman though.

[RiverRat13]

Last night was proof how important a good O-line is.

Last night showed how detrimental a terrible line is. You don't need an elite offensive line if you have elite weapons, but you certainly need at least a competent one. What was crazy was the Chiefs rolling out the same gameplan as if they had both starting tackles. They basically gave zero help to those guys all night.

[membengal]

More Sewell and Slater stuff---Brandon Thorn always worth it when it comes to reading about line prospects:

https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1358821061589106697?s=20

[RiverRat13]

More Sewell and Slater stuff---Brandon Thorn always worth it when it comes to reading about line prospects:

https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1358821061589106697?s=20

Probably need to keep Bobby Hart around if they take Sewell, according to Thorn's evaluation. Interesting that he doesn't list the Bengals as best fit for either guy.

[membengal]

Probably need to keep Bobby Hart around if they take Sewell, according to Thorn's evaluation. Interesting that he doesn't list the Bengals as best fit for either guy.

Just because he claims Sewell needs vets to accelerate his development. As luck would have it, Joe Thuney and Daryl Williams can do that...

[Todd Gack]

Last night was proof how important a good O-line is. This is why you absolutely must draft a potentially elite OT alike Sewell if you’re the bengals. The chiefs are absolutely loaded at the skill positions and have one of the best QBs in the history of football. They were down their OTs and they got completely destroyed and couldn’t score a TD. Mahomes could not do anything. I can’t imagine watching the bengals in 2020 and then Mahomes last night and being like “the Bengals should draft a TE in the first round” lol.

Getting a good OL was never a secret. The worst part about our Offensive Line is that we weren't even an "average" OL. We weren't looking to 'upgrade' an already average line. Our line was arguably THE WORST to end 2019. That's what's mostly frustrating. Mahomes made some incredible throws after getting absolutely zero protection and running for his life.

[oregonred]

Watching Mahommes in the Super Bowl last night, he reminded me of someone.

1. Pure talent at QB
2. No time in the pocket, running for his life
3. Taking some very hard shots, sometimes to the head.
4. Circus throws, scrambling
5. Poor performance

I'll bet Burrow had some deja vu last night too.

100% right on. Thinking the same thing all game was like watching Burrow against Philly 2nd half and OT earlier this year running for his life

Seriously the penalty on the hit to Mahomes could have been career altering or ending. I have no idea how he wasn't seriously hurt on that play

Guard FA and Sewell in Round 1 is more important than ever

[Kingspoint]

That Chiefs OL performance had to be worse than anything the Bengals OL put together this year. I thought they would struggle but didn't expect that level of dominance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which should tell you why the Bengals should target LT with their first pick and forget that idiotic WR talk. Kelce, Hill, Lehaire and Mahomes are far superior than anything the Bengals could ever dream of having, and they were all totally useless without a good O-Line (in a Super Bowl, and on the way to it, you'll face elite Defenses, so anything less than good, rather than the mediocre highbar of those proposing WR in the 1st, won't get it done).

Sewell or bust.

[oregonred]

If he's available, how do you not take Devonta Smith?

Not a fit with the AFC North (size) and Bengals first round bad luck... Chase is younger, just as fast and 40 lbs bigger. All in for Chase or Sewell at #5

Admittedly scarred by John Ross and Peter Warrick

LOL, sorry Hokie for some reason was showing as the latest post...

[Kingspoint]

Opinions on this one?

https://www.nfl.com/news/three-round-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-jets-trade-out-of-no-2-overall-pick

Pick 5 Cincinnati Bengals Florida Junior

Kyle Pitts · TE

"Pitts is the top pass catcher in the draft. With Penei Sewell off the board, Cincinnati will wait until Rounds 2 and/or 3 to get Joe Burrow some help on the offensive line. If the Bengals go with the Florida product, it would be the third time in the past 12 drafts that they selected a tight end in the first round (Jermaine Gresham in 2010, Tyler Eifert in '13)."


Pick 38 Cincinnati Bengals LSU Junior

Jayson Oweh · Edge rusher


Pick 69 Cincinnati Bengals Oklahoma Junior

Wyatt Davis · OG

[WVRed]

Opinions on this one?

https://www.nfl.com/news/three-round-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-jets-trade-out-of-no-2-overall-pick

Would be pissed if Pitts was the pick with Chase or Smith still on the board.

Would likely turn in my fan card if O-line isn’t addressed before the third round.

In short, this mock sucks.

[membengal]

Opinions on this one?

https://www.nfl.com/news/three-round-2021-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-jets-trade-out-of-no-2-overall-pick

I hate it with fiery burning intensity of 1000 suns...

[Kingspoint]

Just because he claims Sewell needs vets to accelerate his development. As luck would have it, Joe Thuney and Daryl Williams can do that...

As can the return of a very good Offensive Line Coach. Can't help but look forward to what he'll accomplish.

[Kingspoint]

Like seeing three rounds with mock trades. A lot of this made some sense, though, hate it or not. They certainly looked at each team and tried to really think about what they would do, not what they should do.

[membengal]

The bengals are not taking pitts in that guy’s scenario. That’s just dumb.

[Kingspoint]

The bengals are not taking pitts in that guy’s scenario. That’s just dumb.

He called him the best Receiver in the Draft,...better than any WR.

[RiverRat13]

The Bengals need an outside threat who can stretch the field. If they take Pitts at 5, then they either had to have signed a deep threat in FA or would still have to take one in the 3rd or 4th round.

[membengal]

He called him the best Receiver in the Draft,...better than any WR.

He's insane. Anyone can type anything. That's ****ing stupid.

[Bob Sheed]

Anyone who thinks we should take a TE with the 5th pick should probably watch the Bengals/WFT game from last season again.

[WVRed]

For anyone doing the mock draft generators, check out this PFN’s.

You can do trades for free. After Sewell and Chase were both gone i sent the 5th and a third rounder to the Patriots for their first, second, and a first rounder in 2022.

Here’s what I ended up with:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210210/0782ac282e223af532687089a8aae22b.jpg

[membengal]

PFFs engine also has trades on their free sim if you want another one to play with.

[Kingspoint]

Hobson has been past senile status for years now.

It's tough when the people responsible for getting information to their fans is senile.

(Blazers have it worse,...before Paul Allen died he fired everyone who had a personal opinion that didn't lie about the true state of the team,...and they are still here.)

While Jets and Giants fans may have had some tough seasons, they at least aren't fed BS by the City's "reporters" (you can't get away with that in NYC, anyway).

[KoryMac5]

If Sewell is on the board the Bengals will run to the podium if he isn't it gets interesting quick...

I think the only other player they consider at 5 is Chase.

Trade down if neither are avail and try and grab Slater who will play for 10 seasons.

[Bob Sheed]

Hobson has been past senile status for years now.

It's tough when the people responsible for getting information to their fans is senile.

(Blazers have it worse,...before Paul Allen died he fired everyone who had a personal opinion that didn't lie about the true state of the team,...and they are still here.)

While Jets and Giants fans may have had some tough seasons, they at least aren't fed BS by the City's "reporters" (you can't get away with that in NYC, anyway).

To be fair, Hobson does work for Mike Brown.

What you are speaking of (media not holding anyone's feet to the fire, softball questions etc), in my opinion, is a direct result of Marvin Lewis basically neutering local media via the banning of Dustin Dow, former Enquirer reporter.

Dow asked some tough questions. Marvin basically said Dow is no longer welcome. So there wasn't much for him to do anymore since that was pretty much his job with the Enquirer. So that was that.

After that, it was all, "so coach, even though you lost 50-3, the defense had some bright spots, doncha think?"


Hobson though? He's been writing that same nonsense since the Lost Decade. You should have heard him talk up guys like Jeff Query or Sean Brewer.

[RiverRat13]

If Sewell is on the board the Bengals will run to the podium if he isn't it gets interesting quick...

I think the only other player they consider at 5 is Chase.

Trade down if neither are avail and try and grab Slater who will play for 10 seasons.

Maybe it changes if they make moves in free agency, but for now I 100% agree with your take. I still think 3 QBs go in the top 4, so the Bengals will have an easy choice of taking whichever of Sewell or Chase is still there.

[Ohayou]

The first four picks in McShay's new mock draft are all QBs.

[Hillsdale87]

If Sewell is on the board the Bengals will run to the podium if he isn't it gets interesting quick...

I think the only other player they consider at 5 is Chase.

Trade down if neither are avail and try and grab Slater who will play for 10 seasons.

I think it'll be interesting to see how the Bengals approach this draft. There are top tier WRs and OLs available in FA. It's almost certain that Chase or Sewell will be there at 5, but likely not both. So without knowing who will be there at 5, it complicates the FA plan. Say they sign Moton, but they Chase goes to the Dolphins at 3, what do they do? They could take Sewell and have a stacked OL, which is good, but then they'd be very deficient at WR. Or, they could sign one of the bigger name WRs, but then what happens if Sewell goes before #5? It's a bit of an interesting chess match.

The ideal scenario would be that the Bengals sign both a good WR and OL in FA, and so then they have more flexibility at 5, but I'm not confident that they'll pull that off.

[Rdirtypirates]

He's insane. Anyone can type anything. That's ****ing stupid.

Not at 5 but he would be a great weapon for Burrow. Dude is a beast.

[membengal]

Not at 5 but he would be a great weapon for Burrow. Dude is a beast.

The bengals are NOT taking pitts at five over chase and sewell. That's lunacy.

I also seriously question that Pitts would be used right in this offense.

Just, no.

[Kingspoint]

Maybe it changes if they make moves in free agency, but for now I 100% agree with your take. I still think 3 QBs go in the top 4, so the Bengals will have an easy choice of taking whichever of Sewell or Chase is still there.

When Brewer was signed, Hobson posted the Bengals' "official" press release on drafting Brewer and within an hour I posted where it was copy-and-pasted from (an SI article on potential draft prospects) on bengalsjungle. In other words, the Bengals picked Brewer without having a Scout ever having seen him and they didn't even have their own information on him they could release in case they drafted him.

Absolutely pathetic.

[Kingspoint]

The first four picks in McShay's new mock draft are all QBs.

Yeah, saw that. The Carolina trade allowing the Jets to take a QB at #8 and get extra pick(s).

[Kingspoint]

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Vikings hired ex-Raiders DC Paul Guenther as a senior defensive assistant. Guenther was fired as the Raiders' DC before the end of this past season but now links back up with coach Mike Zimmer after the two spent 2008-13 together with the Bengals. Guenther actually replaced Zimmer as the Bengals' DC when Zimmer was hired in Minnesota, so the two know each other well. It should be a seamless transition for Guenther.

[Hillsdale87]

New mock drafts today. Matt Miller's has Pitts going 4 to Atlanta, and Dane Brugler's has Pitts going to the Bengals. It would appear that evaluators think much more highly of Pitts than people here do.

[KoryMac5]

New mock drafts today. Matt Miller's has Pitts going 4 to Atlanta, and Dane Brugler's has Pitts going to the Bengals. It would appear that evaluators think much more highly of Pitts than people here do.

Reminds me of Weller from Oakland...good route runner, great catch radius, not a great blocker (but you are not drafting him for that). I get cautious about drafting a TE that high as they usually don't work out. If they trade back it would be an option to consider.

I have always thought they could convert Tate to TE as he possesses similar skill set.

[membengal]

New mock drafts today. Matt Miller's has Pitts going 4 to Atlanta, and Dane Brugler's has Pitts going to the Bengals. It would appear that evaluators think much more highly of Pitts than people here do.

If the evaluators could point me to one top 10 TE in the last (checks notes) EVER who had multiple Pro Bowls, that would be swell...

Here's your draft history TE list for all-time (every draft on here):

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/te

Best ever TE picks in first round of the common/modern draft era? Kellen Winslow Sr (13th overall in 1979), Tony Gonzalez (13th overall in 1997), Jeremy Shockey (14th overall in 2002), Ozzie Newsome (23rd overall 1978), Dallas Clark (24th overall 2003). That's it, that's the list.

First round TE in top 10 in common/modern draft era?

TJ Hockenson, Eric Ebron, Vernon Davis, Kellen Winslow Jr., Rickey Dudley, Kyle Brady, Junior Miller, Ken MacAfee, JV Cain, Charlie Young, Riley Odoms, Steve Zabel, Ted Kwalick. (Mike Ditka was taken #5 overall in 1960 - but that was before the bengals existed and before the common draft era...)

And only one of THOSE guys was picked as high as 5 overall...Riley Odoms (other than Ditka).

I mean, just, yeesh. Kyle Pitts is gonna be the one to be the exception? For sure? Because, in top 5, everyone better be damn sure. Play around with it on the link I dropped. I guess I could be convinced, but it is gonna take awhile. Trade back and take him? OK. Stay put and take him over Chase or Sewell if they are there? Or even over Waddle? Hells no.

[Hillsdale87]

I'm not saying I'd advocate taking Pitts at 5, because I really didn't watch Florida this year and mostly only saw his plays in highlights, which were impressive. From what I know I would prefer Chase and Sewell. But I think the discussion of Pitts as just a TE is underselling him. Pitts is 6'6", 240, and will likely run in the 4.4s. That means he's taller, heavier, and faster than Tee Higgins.

Yes, the history of taking TEs in the 1st round isn't great, but I think TE, more than most positions, is scheme dependent, and so a TE can get lost if not used well. But guys like Kelce, Kittle, Waller, and of course Gronk in his prime, are elite players who are just as valuable as the top WRs. So taking Pitts in the top 5 would require some trust that Taylor will know how to use him. I think Taylor did a pretty good job maximizing the offensive talent last year, so I think I'll feel pretty comfortable with whoever they take at 5.

This is Daniel Jeremiah's writeup on Pitts (he has Pitts as the #3 overall prospect and Chase as #2):
Pitts is a long, lean tight end prospect with excellent speed, ball skills and production. He has lined up inline, flexed in the slot and split out wide. He runs routes like a wideout. The former Gator has burst off the line, sets up defenders and explodes out of the break point. He beat upper-echelon SEC cornerbacks on a weekly basis. He builds speed to separate down the seam and tracks the ball naturally down the field. Pitts has an enormous catch radius. He uses his speed to pile up yards after the catch. He showed tremendous improvement as a blocker in 2020. He fits up, doing his best to wrestle and stay attached. He will fall off at times, but the effort is there. Overall, Pitts is a unique talent with the ability to take over a game. He is the definition of a mismatch player.

[membengal]

That's fine, DJ can write what he wants. They all can. And then I can look at the history of first round TEs and raise both eyebrows. Pitts between 10 and 15? Ok. Pitts at five over Chase and/or Sewell like a few of them are currently mocking? LOL, NO.

And, while we are here, before they try and sell me on "he's really just best thought of as a big WR" - well--- he didn't play "big WR" in college, did he? He played TE. No way on god's green earth do I rank him above Chase, Waddle, or Smith at the position of "WR" no matter what they say.

[Ohayou]

I see Pitts falling to Arizona. Maybe the Cowboys or Giants, though both have more pressing needs.

[Todd Gack]

That's fine, DJ can write what he wants. They all can. And then I can look at the history of first round TEs and raise both eyebrows. Pitts between 10 and 15? Ok. Pitts at five over Chase and/or Sewell like a few of them are currently mocking? LOL, NO.

And, while we are here, before they try and sell me on "he's really just best thought of as a big WR" - well--- he didn't play "big WR" in college, did he? He played TE. No way on god's green earth do I rank him above Chase, Waddle, or Smith at the position of "WR" no matter what they say.

The issue isn't that we shouldn't draft Pitts at 5. If we knew Shockey, Kelce, Gronk, etc were going to be that good, a lot of teams would've drafted them at 5.

The biggest issue is that we trust the same guys who decided to draft Drew Sample in the 2nd round the same expertise in drafting another TE.

[membengal]

Kelce, Gronk, were not first round TEs. THAT's the point. If you look at my post and read it, restricting it to JUST first round TEs, there are only a handful, EVER who have justified being a first round pick who were taken in the first round (and not a ONE of those taken before pick 13). Maybe Pitts is one of those. MAYBE. but, I don't want to be the team gambling on it, and not at 5.

[Hillsdale87]

Kelce, Gronk, were not first round TEs. THAT's the point. If you look at my post and read it, restricting it to JUST first round TEs, there are only a handful, EVER who have justified being a first round pick who were taken in the first round (and not a ONE of those taken before pick 13). Maybe Pitts is one of those. MAYBE. but, I don't want to be the team gambling on it, and not at 5.

I don't think that past TE busts should keep a team from drafting a TE in the first round though. TEs are probably more valuable today than they ever have been at any point in the history of the NFL. The game has changed significantly even just in the past 10 years. And Pitts, if he tests like people expect, will probably be in the 95th+ percentile from an athletic standpoint of TEs that have ever been in the draft.

A TE who lines up on the line of scrimmage would not excite me at 5. But Pitts is a receiver first, lining up in the slot and out wide. If you watch his highlights, he's beating SEC CBs deep and outrunning them to the end zone. I'd still rather have Chase or Sewell at 5, but I don't think I would freak out if Pitts was drafted (again, assuming he tests well and runs in the 4.4s).

[Ohayou]

TBF, Gronk probably would have been a 1st round TE had he not missed his last year in college due to back surgery.

[Hillsdale87]

And, while we are here, before they try and sell me on "he's really just best thought of as a big WR" - well--- he didn't play "big WR" in college, did he? He played TE. No way on god's green earth do I rank him above Chase, Waddle, or Smith at the position of "WR" no matter what they say.

He did primarily play big WR in college though. Watch these highlights. He's rarely on the line of scrimmage. He's in the slot or out wide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnnT2QcZ8g8&ab_channel=InAllKindsOfWeather

- - - Updated - - -


TBF, Gronk probably would have been a 1st round TE had he not missed his last year in college due to back surgery.

Yeah, would have been nice if he would have been healthy so the Bengals could have taken him instead of Gresham.

[membengal]

Then he's still behind Chase, Smith and Waddle.

[Todd Gack]

Kelce, Gronk, were not first round TEs. THAT's the point. If you look at my post and read it, restricting it to JUST first round TEs, there are only a handful, EVER who have justified being a first round pick who were taken in the first round (and not a ONE of those taken before pick 13). Maybe Pitts is one of those. MAYBE. but, I don't want to be the team gambling on it, and not at 5.

First, I thought you ignored me? Second, I read your posts. The point of my post is that if we knew Pitts was going to be as good as Kelce/Gronk/etc, would you draft him at 5? Absolutely. If you find someone like that, he's even more valuable than a top wide receiver.

Either way, this staff is better off just going with the "safest" pick because we're terrible at prognosticating or developing anyone who needs a lot of development.

[Kingspoint]

They could also sign Terrell Williams for cheap as a deep Receiver. Would step in as the fastest WR on the team immediately and he has good hands, unlike Ross. Injuries have derailed his last couple of seasons. He's out of Monmouth, Oregon from a teacher's college, and only NE sent a scout to look at him before the draft. I was calling on here for the Bengals to sign him as a UDFA, but only San Diego offered him that (maybe NE did, but these guys pay for their own flights and San Diego is a lot closer, and warmer, than Foxboro). He won a job, then was a starting job when Keenan Allen got hurt and responded with 1035 yards on 69 catches. They drafted Mike Williams and Allen returned, sending him to 6th or 7th on the pass-catching depth chart behind their RB's and TE's. He signed for two years, $21M with OAK, but foot injuries his first year and then a torn labrum last year (and two 1st Rd WR's taken by Las Vegas) prevented him from doing anything. He's still a burner, he's hungry to prove himself, and he was released today so the Raiders could save $10M cap space. He'd be cheap. And, as with all NFL contracts, or most anyways, very little is gauranteed if he doesn't make the club. He's still got blazing speed with excellent hands.

[WrongVerb]

If Sewell isn't there, the Bengals ought to trade down until they can take Darrisaw.

[Kingspoint]

Most in-depth article I've ever seen anyone write on team needs. Never seen anyone ever go into this much detail before.

https://www.nbcsports.com/edge/article/offseason-team-previews/2021-bengals-offseason-preview

[Kingspoint]

If Sewell isn't there, the Bengals ought to trade down until they can take Darrisaw.

Very wise. Way too many needs to settle and not take extra picks if Sewell isn't there.

[redsfandan]

Most in-depth article I've ever seen anyone write on team needs. Never seen anyone ever go into this much detail before.

https://www.nbcsports.com/edge/article/offseason-team-previews/2021-bengals-offseason-preview

I'm impressed. I wish everything they did was this thought out.

[Kingspoint]

I'm impressed. I wish everything they did was this thought out.

Yes. Nobody has to agree with them, but they clearly put in a lot of effort and as a result touched on a lot of important ideas. What if got out of it the most is the reality of how many needs the team has, which only makes sense as you don't pick 1st and then 5th (only because they won two meaningless games at the end, otherwise they would pick 3rd) without being left with a ton of needs.

[membengal]

I'm impressed. I wish everything they did was this thought out.

That site has pivoted to gambling - so a lot more in-depth stuff is coming.

[Kingspoint]

That site has pivoted to gambling - so a lot more in-depth stuff is coming.

The really good ones understand how important it is to pay attention to the Offensive and Defensive Lines. We all saw what happened to the Chiefs minus two O-Line Starters. Couldn't even recognize who they were, while the Bucs D-Line dominated the game.

[Bob Sheed]

A dozen teams are interested in signing JJ Watt, released last week by the Texans. The Bengals aren’t among them. Imagine that.

[RiverRat13]

https://twitter.com/Tucker_TnL/status/1361079778657370112?s=20

[Bob Sheed]

https://twitter.com/Tucker_TnL/status/1361079778657370112?s=20

I saw this too. Thought about posting it but didn't want to post two negative things in a row.

It's basically data suggesting the Bengals are the worst team in regard to draft pick results over the past 10 years. Ravens scored the best.

[RiverRat13]

It's amazing how much PFF likes Lawson, WJIII and Bates and how bad the defense as a whole was last year.

[RedTeamGo!]

PFF seems like mostly nonsense to me

[Kingspoint]

PFF seems like mostly nonsense to me

30 NFL teams disagree.

But, to your credit, it was two years ago when the NFL decided not to let the public have the same PFF information that the NFL teams are receiving. We were getting it up until then.

[Todd Gack]

https://twitter.com/Tucker_TnL/status/1361079778657370112?s=20

Doesn't it pretty much confirm we're better off just going with the absolute safest pick because our scouts/coaches are garbage? We lucked in Burrow and then we Bengalized him last year. Let's hope it doesn't end up being a lifetime thing.

[RedTeamGo!]

Curious how much bengals fans would hate this:

Bengals get:

Deshaun Watson

Texans get:

Joe Burrow

[Wonderful Monds]

Curious how much bengals fans would hate this:

Bengals get:

Deshaun Watson

Texans get:

Joe Burrow

If I thought the Bengals were a more complete team that could make a Super Bowl run with a healthy QB, I might be able to consider it. But as it is, they still need major overhauls to both lines, the defense, and at least one top tier receiver. Probably a tight end as well. I think they need Burrow and his cheap rookie contract to be able to make all those things realistically possible for the Bengals.

[Bob Sheed]

Curious how much bengals fans would hate this:

Bengals get:

Deshaun Watson

Texans get:

Joe Burrow

Cincinnati would explode. Or implode. Something. :lol:

I don't think it's that crazy of an idea if multiple draft picks were involved. But you'd be selling low right now, no question. That's also a Cincinnati Sports thing, so who knows...

It is the Bengals though. I doubt the Front Office is even thinking about football right now. The younger portion probably skiing or whatever, the older portion, probably napping.

[WVRed]

Curious how much bengals fans would hate this:

Bengals get:

Deshaun Watson

Texans get:

Joe Burrow

Considering Joe Burrow is expected to be in the Cincinnati lore of Barry Larkin and Pete Rose, yes it wouldn’t be very well received.

I’m not saying Burrow is having that impact currently but he has the potential to do so as long as the Bengals take care of him. He’s a semi-local kid who fans will rally behind. Plus it would likely cost the no 5 pick in addition to Burrow to get Watson. Hard pass.

[RedTeamGo!]

Considering Joe Burrow is expected to be in the Cincinnati lore of Barry Larkin and Pete Rose, yes it wouldn’t be very well received.

I’m not saying Burrow is having that impact currently but he has the potential to do so as long as the Bengals take care of him. He’s a semi-local kid who fans will rally behind. Plus it would likely cost the no 5 pick in addition to Burrow to get Watson. Hard pass.

I’m sorry but crowning him a hall of famer/legend at this point is absurd. He could just as easily go Carson Wentz than be an all-pro type. He wasn’t even the best rookie QB in his class.

[WVRed]

I’m sorry but crowning him a hall of famer/legend at this point is absurd. He could just as easily go Carson Wentz than be an all-pro type. He wasn’t even the best rookie QB in his class.

I don’t disagree, but Cincinnati really favors the hometown story narrative. I said he has the potential to be that in Cincinnati, not that he will be. Plus we would have to give up more than Burrow to acquire Watson anyways.

[Hoosier Red]

Reminds me of Weller from Oakland...good route runner, great catch radius, not a great blocker (but you are not drafting him for that). I get cautious about drafting a TE that high as they usually don't work out. If they trade back it would be an option to consider.

I have always thought they could convert Tate to TE as he possesses similar skill set.

I like that idea. Whether we name them TE or WR, an inside Receivers are always a combination of Big/Strong/Slow(relatively) who create matchup problems by being too fast for LB's and too big for Safeties, or they're Small/Quick guys who can outrun LB's and Safeties but probably don't have the size to play more than 50% of the snaps.

[RiverRat13]

I’m sorry but crowning him a hall of famer/legend at this point is absurd. He could just as easily go Carson Wentz than be an all-pro type. He wasn’t even the best rookie QB in his class.I believe you overlooked the word "expected" in his reply. Or you ignored it.

[Kingspoint]

Two viable Receiver options for the Bengals in FA that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg who showed well (Corey Davis) really well (Jonnu Smith) last season with Ryan Tannehill.

From NBC Sports w/ NBC Sports comments:

Titans general manager Jon Robison indicated Jonnu Smith and Corey Davis might sign elsewhere this offseason. Both Smith and Davis are unrestricted free agents who should see interest from several teams in the coming weeks and months. The uber-athletic Smith made the most of his limited opportunity in the run-heavy Tennessee offense, turning in his most productive season in 2020 (41 receptions and eight touchdowns). In a more pass-happy offense, Smith could finally become an every-week fantasy starter rather than a strictly touchdown-dependent option. Davis disappointed down the stretch in 2020 after a hot start -- mostly due to A.J. Brown being sidelined with a knee injury. Davis did, however, post a career high in yards per reception (15.1) last year while missing two games. Davis in no way profiles as a team's WR1. "We’ll see what we can figure out," Robinson said. "But at the end of the day, if they choose to capitalize on free agency and the market, I wish them nothing but the best. They’ve done everything we’ve asked them to do.”

SOURCE: ProFootballTalk.com

[Kingspoint]

PFF seems like mostly nonsense to me

Forgot to mention that I wouldn't give a penny for what they offer the public now when I used to have a subscription two to five years ago.

[RedTeamGo!]

I believe you overlooked the word "expected" in his reply. Or you ignored it.

It was moreso in response to the many bengals fans I see saying stuff like that on social media

[Kingspoint]

It was moreso in response to the many bengals fans I see saying stuff like that on social media

That's how so many Bengals' fans roll...continually ignoring the fact that they sucked last season and the year before, and sucked badly, so badly, that only a myriad of talent infusion is going to make them good enough to even "talk about playoffs". Another 1st Round WR is the very last thing this team needs...very last thing. They need to address the meat and potatoes before adding some garnish, easily added in the later rounds for what the Bengals need.

[WVRed]

That's how so many Bengals' fans roll...continually ignoring the fact that they sucked last season and the year before, and sucked badly, so badly, that only a myriad of talent infusion is going to make them good enough to even "talk about playoffs". Another 1st Round WR is the very last thing this team needs...very last thing. They need to address the meat and potatoes before adding some garnish, easily added in the later rounds for what the Bengals need.

Add to that Deshaun Watson would not improve the wins on this team. He couldn’t even carry the Texans by himself and the Bengals aren’t much better and play in a tougher division.

[RedTeamGo!]

Add to that Deshaun Watson would not improve the wins on this team. He couldn’t even carry the Texans by himself and the Bengals aren’t much better and play in a tougher division.

Yeah, Watson sucks for not playing defense!

The dude had 4,900 passing yards, a 70.2 comp%, 33 TD, 7 INT

He’s elite.

[WVRed]

Yeah, Watson sucks for not playing defense!

The dude had 4,900 passing yards, a 70.2 comp%, 33 TD, 7 INT

He’s elite.

What was the Texans record last season?

[RiverRat13]

I'd be pleased if Burrow gets to Watson's level. The team who is crazy for not going after him is the Dolphins. They have the juice to get him and he would instantly make them a contender for the next five years. I'd trade both of their 1st round picks, one of their second round picks this year, and their 2022 and 2023 first round picks for Watson without thinking twice.

[RedTeamGo!]

What was the Texans record last season?

And we are blaming this on Watson because....?

[Bob Sheed]

And we are blaming this on Watson because....?

I think he said Watson can't carry the team by himself, as evidence by the Texans W/L record. Doesn't matter if he threw 100 TDs and 10k yards. The win is the only barometer here. Anything else is just glamour points.

These types of disconnects remind me of another forum here...

[RedTeamGo!]

It’s not a disconnect, I get his point, however I think the Bengals have a much better defense and situation than Houston. Bengals fans are upset about their organization, I get it, but the toxicity and disfunction in Houston makes the Bengals look like the Patriots.

[Kingspoint]

Available as a Free Agent: Marvin Jones, Jr.

Kenny Golladay is not the only Lions wide receiver headed to free agency, but the team won't be as hard-pressed to retain Jones, who will be 31 years old before the 2021 league year begins on March 17. Jones has been incredibly consistent, grading between 71.0 and 76.0 (his 73.6 in 2020 ranked 47th out of 127 WR's...for perspective, Green was 78th at 66.3, something Jones has never been since he was last in Cincinnati, and Higgins was 75.9 and Boyd was 75.8) in each of his last six seasons. We'd be adding a player equal to what Boyd and Higgins provided the team last season and who is more consistent than either of them.

Jones is still a capable Z wide receiver on the outside opposite a true X, but he has also seen his snaps from the slot increase steadily each season, which could perhaps make him more attractive to potential suitors if there are concerns about his game not aging well, so he could interchange with Boyd, who is also a capable Z Receiver. Having them play two positions interchangeably gives the team more flexibility should either miss a game for any reason. Jones has solid hands (only dropped more than four passes once in a season) and some juice after the catch. He should still be a capable addition to a lot of receiving corps in the league. He isn't a true mismatch weapon or a No. 1 receiver, but he can still provide a lot of value.

Note the important stat of Jones never having had more than 4 drops in any season....ever. Combine that with Burrow and you have the perfect weapon opposite Higgins with Boyd in the Slot and the Starting TE tbd. Jones should be affordable as one of many pieces the Bengals have to invest in as they have a plethora of team needs that must be addressed in FA. Keeping WR down to under $5M, which is what Jones should cost, saves them $27M to address CB, G and at least two other needs, with one possibly being another G or a C.

Marvin Jones spent most of the last six seasons running his routes against opposing CB1's, so his consistent ratings of between 71.0 and 76.0 with never more than 4 drops in a single season makes his career even more impressive.

[Kingspoint]

It’s not a disconnect, I get his point, however I think the Bengals have a much better defense and situation than Houston. Bengals fans are upset about their organization, I get it, but the toxicity and disfunction in Houston makes the Bengals look like the Patriots.

We're not the sad sack of the NFL right now. Last season's FA spending proved that. This season's acquisition of a real Offensive Line Coach, admitting their mistake proves it more. Letting Green go (and likely Geno) proves it more. If we could hold onto WJIII or Alexander, this would help a lot to the additions of Waynes and Reader.

[WVRed]

It’s not a disconnect, I get his point, however I think the Bengals have a much better defense and situation than Houston. Bengals fans are upset about their organization, I get it, but the toxicity and disfunction in Houston makes the Bengals look like the Patriots.

Honest question.

If you replace Watson with Burrow on the roster currently as is, how many wins do you think the Bengals net?

Factor in not having a first round pick because that’s likely going bye bye to acquire Watson in addition to Burrow.

[Kingspoint]

Honest question.

If you replace Watson with Burrow on the roster currently as is, how many wins do you think the Bengals net?

Factor in not having a first round pick because that’s likely going bye bye to acquire Watson in addition to Burrow.

Fewer wins because we lose that 1st Round pick.

With Burrow and the picks we keep, we can probably shoot for 7 or 8 wins, but without those picks, probably about 5 or 6 wins. It would be a complete disaster for the franchise and all fans should pack it in if they ever did anything so stupid as to trade Burrow for Watson.

[RedTeamGo!]

Honest question.

If you replace Watson with Burrow on the roster currently as is, how many wins do you think the Bengals net?

Factor in not having a first round pick because that’s likely going bye bye to acquire Watson in addition to Burrow.

That wasn’t the hypothetical, though. It was burrow for Watson.

Burrow is not going to be healthy this year. I know he will be back at some point, but it’s going to take time to fully recover. I think with Watson the Bengals might be a playoff team in 2021 (if they fix the o-line, of course). Also, Watson is a better QB right now. In 2 years, burrow might be better, I don’t know.

I would personally roll the dice with Burrow, but it would be fascinating if they did it.

[Kingspoint]

It’s not a disconnect, I get his point, however I think the Bengals have a much better defense and situation than Houston. Bengals fans are upset about their organization, I get it, but the toxicity and disfunction in Houston makes the Bengals look like the Patriots.

HOU was 30th in passing EPA and 31st in rushing EPA. Their Defense, even with Watt, wasn't bad...it was worst in the NFL.

[Kingspoint]

So, the Bengals have Alexander and WJIII hitting FA, but the Bengals also have top-seven FA money than most of the teams don't have (Hobson will explain how this translates into bottom-seven).

CB is ranked as the 4th strongest need because of the losses of these two players (they are no longer here any more than a CB from another team is here).

Competition for CB's in FA is strong. Just looking at the worst 10 teams in the league last year, three have CB as the 2nd biggest need, three have CB as the 4th biggest need, two have CB listed as the 2nd AND 4th biggest needs (because they need a Slot CB in addition to an outside CB), one has CB listed as the 5th biggest need, and only one of the ten doesn't have CB listed as a pressing need.

With Nickel and Dime personnel being run more than 60% of the time in the NFL (it rises every year), having three quality CB's is imperative or the weak-link just gets picked on play after play.

Since it's very difficult to get three quality CB's and the fact that injuries happen to the quality CB's, too, a team will get exposed if it isn't knee-deep in at least serviceable CB's.

They may not be able to afford WJIII, but they need to try to keep Alexander. It's still debatable how much Waynes will help. Clearly he'll help, but he's not a lockdown CB at this point in his career...not even close...he's above average coming off an major injury, while having never played in this system.

[RedTeamGo!]

HOU was 30th in passing EPA and 31st in rushing EPA. Their Defense, even with Watt, wasn't bad...it was worst in the NFL.

I have no idea what EPA is, seems like it’s useless when the Qb on the team led league in passing yards with a 33/7 TD/INT ratio and 70% comp%.

[membengal]

Burrow is not going to be healthy this year.

The hell you say. Keep on pretending that is so.

[RedTeamGo!]

The hell you say. Keep on pretending that is so.

Just to be clear: I hope he is fully recovered by game 1. He’s a great guy and I hope he lights it up this year. That injury was nasty, though.

[Kingspoint]

I have no idea what EPA is, seems like it’s useless when the Qb on the team led league in passing yards with a 33/7 TD/INT ratio and 70% comp%.

Those are Defensive stats from www.footballoutsiders.com often quoted by NFL analysts as one of the better measurements of a defensive performance by a team related to the rest of the league. It's more relevant when there are at least four games played for comparison purposes, otherwise the sample-size tends to be too small and more dependent upon specific matchups.

It supported what you were saying that the Bengals' Defense (which actually had a good Secondary against the pass, but no pass rush) was better than Houston's. It wasn't much better, but it was better.

[RedTeamGo!]

Ah, I misunderstood!

[texasdave]

EPA stands for Endzone Protection Associates. In other words, the defense. And Houston's stunk on ice.

[Kingspoint]

Guess the idea of adding Marvin Jones is done...

From NBC Sports w/ NBC Sports comments:

Marvin Jones said he wants to sign with a Super Bowl contender this offseason. That takes a return to Detroit off the table for the veteran wideout. An unrestricted free agent this spring, Jones will likely sign with a team that has something resembling a shot at a championship. “At this point in my career, that’s what I want,” Jones said. Jones, who will be 31 next month, doesn't profile as any team's No. 1 receiver, but could be an undervalued fantasy producer in the right offense. He posted a very respectable 76-978-9 line last year in an abysmal Detroit offense.

SOURCE: Freep.com

If I were Marvin, I'd do whatever necessary to sign with the Packers.

[Bob Sheed]

A healthy Burrow attracts free agents. Especially WRs.

But he's the only shiny object the Bengals have in a sea of red flags for a potential FA. ...And he's hurt.

Of course, everyone can't sign with Tamba Bay, Green Bay, etc. But the Bengals will have to wait their turn at the very least.

[Kingspoint]

A healthy Burrow attracts free agents. Especially WRs.

But he's the only shiny object the Bengals have in a sea of red flags for a potential FA. ...And he's hurt.

Of course, everyone can't sign with Tamba Bay, Green Bay, etc. But the Bengals will have to wait their turn at the very least.

I think Pollack is an attractive reason why a FA O-Lineman would want to come here. I think our Defensive Coordinator is an attractive reason. He's well-liked. Just look at the high-end Defensive Players we were able to attract last season. Reader and Waynes will make the impact this year we didn't get to see last year.

[Hillsdale87]

A healthy Burrow attracts free agents. Especially WRs.

But he's the only shiny object the Bengals have in a sea of red flags for a potential FA. ...And he's hurt.

Of course, everyone can't sign with Tamba Bay, Green Bay, etc. But the Bengals will have to wait their turn at the very least.

If the Bengals are willing to spend, they're not going to have to wait. Guys generally go with whoever offers the most money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingspoint]

If the Bengals are willing to spend, they're not going to have to wait. Guys generally go with whoever offers the most money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the best off-season ever to go shopping....very little cap money available out there with a whole lot of quality FA's to add to your team. Won't be hard to outbid someone this year.

[Kingspoint]

...

[Bob Sheed]

If the Bengals are willing to spend, they're not going to have to wait. Guys generally go with whoever offers the most money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Generally, this is true.

But, and this is purely anecdotal, I have heard more players this offseason insinuate they just want a championship. And the money, albeit important, is secondary.

Part of it is the Brady effect. Part of it is covid contemplation on what is truly important. Just a guess on my part.

Pre 2020, if you asked most players if they would rather have x million dollars or x million dollars divided by 2 plus a championship, most would have said "the most money, period."

Now, I'm not so sure.

[Hillsdale87]

Generally, this is true.

But, and this is purely anecdotal, I have heard more players this offseason insinuate they just want a championship. And the money, albeit important, is secondary.

Part of it is the Brady effect. Part of it is covid contemplation on what is truly important. Just a guess on my part.

Pre 2020, if you asked most players if they would rather have x million dollars or x million dollars divided by 2 plus a championship, most would have said "the most money, period."

Now, I'm not so sure.

I'm sure. Guys at the end of their career who have already made their money may be willing to take a discount on a 1 year deal, but young guys who are signing their first big contracts are not taking discounted 5 year deals for the chance to win a championship. Sure, if the offers are the same, a player is more likely to go to the Bucs than the Bengals, but if the Bengals have the best offer, they'll get most of the guys they want.

[redsfandan]

I'm sure. Guys at the end of their career who have already made their money may be willing to take a discount on a 1 year deal, but young guys who are signing their first big contracts are not taking discounted 5 year deals for the chance to win a championship. Sure, if the offers are the same, a player is more likely to go to the Bucs than the Bengals, but if the Bengals have the best offer, they'll get most of the guys they want.

Wish I was that confident. Probably depends on how much more they're willing to pay.

[KoryMac5]

I would imagine come FA time the Bengals go after Thuney...home town kid makes sense as the line needs help and I think the Bengals will pay him enough to make him consider coming.

Some rumors from twitter:


WJ III is as good as gone...he will get overpaid as not many CB's on the market. Bengals have a number on him after 1 great and 2 good seasons...

Bengals have talked about franchising Lawson which means they want to get a contract done with him.

If they cut Hart...I think you see them go heavy after a Tackle in FA as there is no guarantee they would get Sewell at #5

[Kingspoint]

Sign two mid-range FA Guards. That shouldn't cost much and would be a huge upgrade.

[RiverRat13]

Dehner floated trading a third for Rob Havenstein of the Rams to play RT.

[RiverRat13]

Tyler Dragon is reporting that Hopkins will be ready to go by camp.

[texasdave]

Trivia: In three games against the Bengals, Bo Jackson carried the ball 27 times for a total of 353 yards. That's an average of 13+ yards per carry. :eek:

[Kingspoint]

Trivia: In three games against the Bengals, Bo Jackson carried the ball 27 times for a total of 353 yards. That's an average of 13+ yards per carry. :eek:

In 33 (32 Starts) games at Arlington Stadium (not the BP Arlington, where he had 11 PA's) he OPS'd 1.023 over 136 PA's w/ 29 RBI's and 25 Runs. Project that out to a full season, and he'd have 175 RBI's and 150 Runs (65 HR's). Texas fans saw the very best of Bo.

[WVRed]

Kyle Rudolph, former UC Bearcat and Cincinnati native released by the Vikings.

Yay or nay?

[Kingspoint]

Kyle Rudolph, former UC Bearcat and Cincinnati native released by the Vikings.

Yay or nay?

Not a chance. He's so not as good as he thinks he is. Don't need that attitude in camp or around a young QB. They released him because he was whining about not being thrown the ball enough in the Redzone last year. They preferred to give it to guy's named Adam Thielen (caught 17 of 23 w/ 13 TD's), Justin Jefferson (caught 8 of 14 w/ 4 TD's), Irv Smith (caught 8 of 12 w/ 5 TD's), a RB (Cook and Abdullah caught a combined 5 of 6 w/ 2 TD's), or someone else (5 of 8 w/ 3 TD's), while Rudolph only caught 2 of 5 w/ 1 TD. Oh, and handing it off to Cook was also a very, very good idea [68 rushing attempts in the Redzone (most in the NFL) w/ 13 TD's]. In Rudolph's Defense, they did hand it to Mattison too often (26 times w/ only 2 TD's, but Rudolph would not be an option even here as Irv Smith is a better TE).

Rudolph's career has been over for a few years. MIN hung onto him too long as it was.

[Kingspoint]

Now,...if you want to add Jared Cook, who got released today, then absolutely, yes.

https://www.nbcsports.com/edge/football/nfl/player/10930/jared-cook/stats

Would be a great addition at a very, very cheap cost. Burrow could use him.

[Boss-Hog]

Kyle Rudolph, former UC Bearcat and Cincinnati native released by the Vikings.

Yay or nay?Kyle Rudolph is a Cincinnati guy but went to Notre Dame instead of UC. I'd be somewhat interested but probably not at a price he'd be interested in. The Bengals have too many other needs to throw much money at a declining TE in an offense that is so 3 WR heavy.

[bucksfan2]

Kyle Rudolph is a Cincinnati guy but went to Notre Dame instead of UC. I'd be somewhat interested but probably not at a price he'd be interested in. The Bengals have too many other needs to throw much money at a declining TE in an offense that is so 3 WR heavy.

Interesting choice of words, went to ND instead of UC.

Anyway, I was thinking about this and it seemed like a Bengals type of signing. Rudolph is pretty involved in the local community, he signs a year or so deal with the Bengals and then lays the groundwork for a career after football in the area.

It reminds me somewhat of what the Bengals did with AJ Hawk.

[Boss-Hog]

Interesting choice of words, went to ND instead of UC.

Anyway, I was thinking about this and it seemed like a Bengals type of signing. Rudolph is pretty involved in the local community, he signs a year or so deal with the Bengals and then lays the groundwork for a career after football in the area.

It reminds me somewhat of what the Bengals did with AJ Hawk.I didn't mean anything by that as if the two are apples to apples. I was just stating that he went to Notre Dame and not UC, as was previously mentioned.

[WVRed]

Either way, I stand corrected. Thought he was a UC product but I may have been thinking of Travis Kelce.

[membengal]

For the Sewell truthers, Matt Miller mock today:

5. Cincinnati Bengals—OT Penei Sewell, Oregon

Get used to this one. You’ll see Sewell predicted here all the way to April 29 given the intel available. I was hearing from league sources in December that Sewell was already locked in as the Bengals’ target in Round 1

[Kingspoint]

For the Sewell truthers, Matt Miller mock today:

5. Cincinnati Bengals—OT Penei Sewell, Oregon

Get used to this one. You’ll see Sewell predicted here all the way to April 29 given the intel available. I was hearing from league sources in December that Sewell was already locked in as the Bengals’ target in Round 1

Never before has there been so little intel available.

Not one whiff of Watt to Arizona. Stafford to the Rams was a surprise.

Nobody knows anything.

[Kingspoint]

Never pay league-average or better for a Guard. Never ever. It's a complete waste of resources.

Never draft a Guard in the first four rounds. Never ever. It's a complete waste of resources.

There is no argument that can justify it that I can't completely blow out of the water.

[RiverRat13]

Never pay league-average or better for a Guard. Never ever. It's a complete waste of resources.

Never draft a Guard in the first four rounds. Never ever. It's a complete waste of resources.

There is no argument that can justify it that I can't completely blow out of the water.

I'd rather sign two guys who are still average guards like Zeitler and Norwell for the same money it would take to sign a Thuney. If the Bengals could roll out a line of Sewell, Norwell, Hopkins, Zeitler, Williams, it wouldn't be a top 5 line but we wouldn't have to worry about Joe getting killed.

[Bob Sheed]

Never before has there been so little intel available.

Not one whiff of Watt to Arizona. Stafford to the Rams was a surprise.

Nobody knows anything.

In-person presence vs Zoom chats, that's why.

Reporters can't really get to know anyone on the inside any longer. As if they needed another nail in that career-choice coffin.

You'd get better intel from Google Trends than most reporters will get you these days.

[Rdirtypirates]

https://nfltraderumors.co/bengals-release-ol-b-j-finney/

BJ Finney was released. This gives them another 3.2 in cap money.

[redsfandan]

The Panthers are expected to franchise tag OT Taylor Moton. That'll be one less good offensive lineman available in free agency.

[Kingspoint]

I'd rather sign two guys who are still average guards like Zeitler and Norwell for the same money it would take to sign a Thuney. If the Bengals could roll out a line of Sewell, Norwell, Hopkins, Zeitler, Williams, it wouldn't be a top 5 line but we wouldn't have to worry about Joe getting killed.

The Offensive Line Free Agency is flooded this time. The opportunities to get two good Guards for a total of $10M over two years ($2.5M per Guard per season) is there for the pickings, especially with very few teams having much money to spend. What little money they do have isn't going to be spent on Guards. For the Bengals to overpay, they'd have to bid against themselves, which of course, they've done several times in the past.

Also, from NBC Sports w/ NBC Sports' comments:

Bengals released C B.J. Finney. The move saves $3.3 million against the salary cap. Cincinnati acquired Finney in the trade that sent Carlos Dunlap to Seattle. Finney played just one game for the Bengals in 2020. The Bengals, as usual, are among the teams with the most cap space headed into free agency.

SOURCE: Paul Dehner, Jr. on Twitter

[Kingspoint]

In-person presence vs Zoom chats, that's why.

Reporters can't really get to know anyone on the inside any longer. As if they needed another nail in that career-choice coffin.

You'd get better intel from Google Trends than most reporters will get you these days.

Yes. It's why I hate texts, I don't like phone calls, and I don't like emails. It's why there are so many stupid arguments on this website and others, because with only words to look at, very little of the message's original meaning is understood. Then it gets compounded with dolts trying to tell someone what they said (instead of listening to what they are saying now) by posting words from a previous post, as if that's proof of the meaning. It's tough enough when you are face-to-face, but it's nearly impossible in any social media communication.

[Ohayou]

New uniforms leaked?

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1368662384508866565?s=20

[WVRed]

New uniforms leaked?

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1368662384508866565?s=20

Did they borrow the Reds number script?

[Ohayou]

The eternal optimist in me wants to believe the Dolphins trading peanuts for Isaiah Wilson takes them out of the Sewell sweepstakes, but I'm probably wrong.

[WrongVerb]

So what are the odds that the Bengals end up franchise tagging nobody?

[membengal]

Considering relative disadvantages of using the tag, 50/50.

[Wonderful Monds]

New uniforms leaked?

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1368662384508866565?s=20

I was hoping for a more minimalist design, but honestly I think this is a little too minimalist. Just looks kinda plain instead.

[RiverRat13]

I think they will tag Lawson but won't be surprised if they don't.

[Sea Ray]

I think they will tag Lawson but won't be surprised if they don't.

Paul Dehner is reporting that they aren't franchising anyone. I think I would have tagged Lawson. This is risky on their part

https://twitter.com/pauldehnerjr/status/1369394500498558983?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[Kingspoint]

Bengals signed Brandon Allen to a 1-yr contract.

Good, inexpensive (hopefully) FA move. I assume we keep Finley, too, with a 17-game season and our Franchise player for the next 10 years coming off of major surgery. Nobody new to learn the system, but there's a ton to learn as it is for a number of reasons (hopefully, a revamped Offensive Line).

[RiverRat13]

There are a lot of solid OL on the market.

[Kingspoint]

There are a lot of solid OL on the market.

And that market continues to get added to every day.

[Bob Sheed]

I'm just waiting for Hobson to report "we're almost at the cap, with just enough money left over for the rookie pool."

[WVRed]

And that market continues to get added to every day.

Thoughts on Andrew Norwell?

[membengal]

He's awesome. He would be a massive upgrade. Have the Jags cut him yet?

Whether he hits the FA pool or not, the G depth is DEEP.

[WVRed]

He's awesome. He would be a massive upgrade. Have the Jags cut him yet?

Whether he hits the FA pool or not, the G depth is DEEP.

I thought they had but after rereading it they are asking him to take a pay cut or trade.

[RiverRat13]

Daryl Williams re-signs with Buffalo. Looking more and more like the best option is to hope Sewell makes it to 5. Need to sign a deep threat WR (or two) along with a couple of IOL.

[Tony Cloninger]

Finney or Dinner as my phone keeps typing for me just resigned with his original team the Steelers. Now you are telling me an organization as smart as them sign him while a stupid organization like the Bengals could not see fit to play him much after trading for him? Which one is it.

[WrongVerb]

Los Angeles Chargers
@Chargers

we've released Trai Turner and Malik Jefferson.

→ chrg.rs/3qB57Hi
11:53am · 12 Mar 2021

Jefferson is a former Bengals draft pick. And Turner immediately becomes a top candidate for an OG signing.

[JaxRed]

I thought they had but after rereading it they are asking him to take a pay cut or trade.

In his recent press conference Urban Meyer said he loved Norwell and wants him with organization. Maybe they are asking him to cut pay, but he didn't sound like a guy getting ready to ship him off.

[Hillsdale87]

Finney or Dinner as my phone keeps typing for me just resigned with his original team the Steelers. Now you are telling me an organization as smart as them sign him while a stupid organization like the Bengals could not see fit to play him much after trading for him? Which one is it.

There was an ESPN article explaining that Finney was never in shape last season. His contract wasn't guaranteed for injury, so he didn't work out heavily in the offseason to make sure to stay healthy and get paid. He came in out of shape and never got into shape, which is why he didn't see the field for Seattle or Cincy.

So makes sense that the Steelers would sign him since they have history with him, but also makes sense that a team with no history wouldn't want to bring him back


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tony Cloninger]

There was an ESPN article explaining that Finney was never in shape last season. His contract wasn't guaranteed for injury, so he didn't work out heavily in the offseason to make sure to stay healthy and get paid. He came in out of shape and never got into shape, which is why he didn't see the field for Seattle or Cincy.

So makes sense that the Steelers would sign him since they have history with him, but also makes sense that a team with no history wouldn't want to bring him back


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you. I did not know that. Why would you want someone that lazy.

[RiverRat13]

https://twitter.com/Jason_OTC/status/1371167451875016704?s=19

[KoryMac5]

Looks like the tweet was taken down...

[membengal]

Bengals bring back Lawson on a 4 yr deal...

What? I am not seeing that anywhere.

[KoryMac5]

What? I am not seeing that anywhere.

Looks like someone jumped the gun...it was on twitter this AM and removed moments later...

[membengal]

Looks like someone jumped the gun...it was on twitter this AM and removed moments later...

Beware fake account season...

[KoryMac5]

Beware fake account season...

I thought it was too early (830a) but then I saw Zeitler signed with the Ravens...and figured the Bengals woke from their nap. The Zeitler contract is 3 yrs 22 million which is very reasonable.

[WrongVerb]

Report: 49ers willing to give Williams $20 million per year (https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/nfl-rumors-49ers-willing-pay-trent-williams-20-million-season)

[WrongVerb]

My "Sports Outlets" Twitter list: https://twitter.com/i/lists/1230258600225886208

That list is curated so only verified outlets (and a few unverified but quite reliable outlets) are listed. Check there for any news or rumors.

[WrongVerb]

Thuney to the Chiefs. 5/80

[KoryMac5]

Thuney to the Chiefs. 5/80

Bengals have too many holes to blow through 25 percent of the budget on 1 guy...they need to walk away with seven to eight players out of FA. Thuney or Zietler would have been nice though.

[Bob Sheed]

Bengals have the 5th most cap space according to everyone not named Hobson, yet they are still sitting on their hands.

Thurney to the Chiefs because they saw what happens when you don't protect your QB.

The Bengals saw what happens when you don't protect your QB also. And yet... nothing.

I mean, they'll obviously have to sign some free agents, just to get to the cap floor. But here we are again, the music on the record player stops and as usual, the Bengals are the ones without a chair to sit on.

[RedTeamGo!]

Bengals have the 5th most cap space according to everyone not named Hobson, yet they are still sitting on their hands.

Thurney to the Chiefs because they saw what happens when you don't protect your QB.

The Bengals saw what happens when you don't protect your QB also. And yet... nothing.

I mean, they'll obviously have to sign some free agents, just to get to the cap floor. But here we are again, the music on the record player stops and as usual, the Bengals are the ones without a chair to sit on.

Didn’t FA start a couple hours ago, lol?

I am not a Bengals fan, before you call me an apologist or whatever, but why would someone pick the Bengals over the chiefs for that kind of cash?

[KoryMac5]

Bengals have the 5th most cap space according to everyone not named Hobson, yet they are still sitting on their hands.

Thurney to the Chiefs because they saw what happens when you don't protect your QB.

The Bengals saw what happens when you don't protect your QB also. And yet... nothing.

I mean, they'll obviously have to sign some free agents, just to get to the cap floor. But here we are again, the music on the record player stops and as usual, the Bengals are the ones without a chair to sit on.

We all thought they would do nothing last year and they walked away with several players....you can get good players day 2. I will be more upset if they do nothing and lose Lawson and WJIII as well. They need 8 solid signings

[RedTeamGo!]

John Johnson was a great pickup by the Browns

[Tony Cloninger]

Bengals have the 5th most cap space according to everyone not named Hobson, yet they are still sitting on their hands.

Thurney to the Chiefs because they saw what happens when you don't protect your QB.

The Bengals saw what happens when you don't protect your QB also. And yet... nothing.

I mean, they'll obviously have to sign some free agents, just to get to the cap floor. But here we are again, the music on the record player stops and as usual, the Bengals are the ones without a chair to sit on.

Your an obtuse broken record. FA barely began today and the Bengals are supposed to blow that much money on 1 player. They are not that close to even being in the playoffs. Not just missing a piece for a SB. You probably complained when they signed Reader and the 2 CBs last year.

[KoryMac5]

John Johnson was a great pickup by the Browns

Bates is going to get paid...

[Ohayou]

Didn’t FA start a couple hours ago, lol?

I am not a Bengals fan, before you call me an apologist or whatever, but why would someone pick the Bengals over the chiefs for that kind of cash?

Yeah, Thuney isn't taking less money to play on a re-build team over a Super Bowl team.

Larry Warford/Trai Turner are both still available. Oday Aboushi is an under-the-radar name at G. Kyle Long announced his return to the NFL last week, and he's old and made of glass, so he should be available for a cheap 1-year deal...Mike Brown will love him lol.

I don't care about WJ3 leaving, but if they fail to bring back Lawson, that one will sting.

[WrongVerb]

Jets, Vikings, Browns, Bengals Interested In DE Trey Hendrickson (https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/03/jets-vikings-browns-interested-in-de-trey-hendrickson)


With Shaquil Barrett off the board after his re-signing with Tampa Bay the group of free agent pass-rushers took a hit, but there are still plenty of quality options available. One of those options is the Saints’ Trey Hendrickson, and we now have details on what the bidding for his services looks like.

The Bengals are also interested in Hendrickson, per Anderson (on Twitter). Cincinnati did not place its franchise tag on Carl Lawson, running the risk of letting the emerging pass rusher defect in free agency. It will be interesting to see the prices for Hendrickson and Lawson. The former broke out in 2020, while the latter has been a producer for a bit longer.

[KoryMac5]

If I was going to be disappointed in the Bengals I would look at the lack of creativity in contracts...TB was capped out and still found a way to sign Shaq...KC has a QB making close to half a billion dollars and they found a way to get Thuney...why they have mastered the cap...Bengals need to get a capologist.

[RiverRat13]

Not getting one of Thuney, Zeitler, Linsley, or Feiler is unforgivable. The Chargers did what they had to do to protect their franchise QB. The Bengals now absolutely have to use a Day 2 pick at OG and pray that no team Ragnows them by taking Sewell before 5. They better sign some defense and a WR in free agency because the draft has to be about the offensive line. And that's a huge gamble to rely on multiple rookies to protect Burrow coming off his injury.

[Danny Serafini]

Lawson to the Jets, 3 years/$47.4M, $30M guaranteed

[WVRed]

Asleep at the wheel. This franchise is sickening.

[RiverRat13]

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1371627905256722440?s=19