Bengals vs Jets - 1st Playoff win in 19 years...yeah right

[Deepred05]

Chad should have had that td. revis is tough....

[KoryMac5]

FG gets us with in a TD, need a miracle though to stop the Jets three and out.

[Joseph]

dagger

[nate]

How do you miss that?

How?

How?

[Deepred05]

Are you kidding me?

[forfreelin04]

Graham misses a gimme field goal. He should be released tomorrow.

[forfreelin04]

I don't think I've ever been more upset at a player in my life.

[Reds4Life]

A 28 yard miss. That is just pathetic. I think I could make a 28 yard field goal.

Disgusting.

[Deepred05]

How close do you have to be for this lump can hit a field goal???????????????

[KoryMac5]

Well, not much left to say. Have a good night folks and try not to kick your dogs or your spouses too hard.

[UKFlounder]

Oh, wow. This is a special kind of lousy.

[forfreelin04]

Jets about to punt.... they didn't bother to try and score. 3:35 left.

[Deepred05]

Well, not much left to say. Have a good night folks and try not to kick your dogs or your spouses too hard.

My dogs are already hiding under the bed. I guess I will take them for their nightly walk, anything is better that watching this horse****

[Joseph]

No timeouts left, down two scores.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

I turned the tv off at halftime...glad i did... so Graham has left 9 points on the field??....Lewis and his clock management/coaching challenges and Graham should be fired tomorrow....Seriously is it just me or for all of eternity whoever the field goal kicker is for the Bengals misses a fg with the game on the line?

[forfreelin04]

Game is over. A team of Covert Ops is placed at Shayne Graham's house tonight.

[Oxilon]

**** GRAHAM

[KoryMac5]

Years ago I remember a kicker for Buffalo who played so poorly he decided to walk home. He was beaten up by some fans who happened to be passing him on the highway. Shayne Graham should think about walking home.

[redsfanmia]

Very bad performance but an over all good season for the Bengals.

[Reds4Life]

Isn't Marvin's contact up?

[CTA513]

Time to target a new kicker and at least 1 or 2 WRs this offseason.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

So much for "Golden" Graham. It is really sad that through all the hardships of a grueling football season(deaths for the Bengals, injuries,etc...) that it comes down to a guy not being able to kick a fg to save his life.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

Did Kemo Von Oelhafen(Sp?) invisibly tackle Graham at some point during the game?

[sonny]

Isn't Marvin's contact up?

I think he's got 2 more years after an extension he recieved after the 8-8 season in 2006.

[sonny]

on the bright side, 40 days till pitchers and catcher's report!

[UKFlounder]

Good by Bengal standards, but 4-7 in out of division games, and 1-4 in the last 5 games of the years are not good at all.

Still, I'm afraid Mike & Marvin will view it as a success


Very bad performance but an over all good season for the Bengals.

[yab1112]

I know none of the receivers were getting open consistently but what was up with Palmer? All his passes were way off target. You can draft a stud receiver in the first round but it won't mean much if the ball isn't thrown close enough to him to make a catch.

I just don't get it.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

When is the thread name being changed?

[Dom Heffner]

Vick knew what to do at playoff time, generally. Pretty important.

Vick is .500 in the playoffs, and the reason he was there was never becuase he was a good passer. His accuracy was terrible.

Vick is average at best overall at the position.

As for the QB ratings:

Palmer is 11th on the all-time list, Vick is 77th, sandwiched between Doug Flutie and Stan Humphries.

I realize this isn't the end all be all- heck, Pennington is in the top 10- but Vick is down there because he couldn't hit the side of a barn.

[dabvu2498]

Hopefully Lapham gets a few words with Shayne in the locker room.

[MWM]

The team was outplanned and totally unprepared for playoff football. The Jets aren't that good, have been sloppy all year and they made it look easy. Their offense struggled at first, figured out what wasn't working, then changed to something that did... and the Bengals had no answer.

The league has figured Bratkowski out. If you have to point the finger at one person, it's him, even over Marvin. The offesne looked decent the first half of the season. The league adjusted and they've done absolutely nothing since.

Playoff football is ALL about game planning. The Bengals were clueless. And I like Shayne Graham. He's been a good kicker over the years, but I don't see how you bring him back. He had an easy kick to put the Bengals in the playoffs in 2006 and he missed. And he missed two gimmes today that would have made it a completely different game. If he makes either one of those, the bengals have the ball with a chance to tie. Kicking is all between the ears. He clearly doesn't have it.

[Mario-Rijo]

Graham certainly could have helped in this game. However when you come into the game throwing the ball this way when your running game is working just fine and you are going against a defense renowned for their pass defense your a moron, Brat strikes again!!! And the lack of ability to cover the TE in this instance coupled with a poorly thought out offensive strategy is the reason they lost, that and some shoddy execution by the offense but again they should have been put in a better position to win by the coaches. Oh and is Marvin the worst challenger of plays in the history of the game or what? And this game just illustrated, I bet they have only won a couple of challenges all season long.

[Playadlc]

Something is wrong with Palmer physically. He's borderline terrible at this point.

Oh yeah, Shayne Graham...see ya.

[yab1112]

It's too bad because Benson had one heckuva night. 21 for 169 yds with 1 TD. A few spectacular, second effort plays where he just wouldn't quit.

[MWM]

Oh yeah, and Carson Palmer is a good QB. He played a bad game today, but he's good. I don't see many QBs being able to look good when the defense has your scheme completely figured out. Sometimes it's the QB, sometime it's the system. I think there are a lot of teams out there who'd love to have Carson Palmer taking the snaps.

And I've never even considered dropping a team I root for. The idea is almost incomprehensible to me. If the Bengals sign Mike Vick, that could change. I might have to adopt the Vikings if. It will never happen, so I don't think it matter.s

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

Well on the bright side...No more Brad Johansen screaming his head off like Armageddon just started every time Benson runs for 2 yards.

[Mario-Rijo]

Good by Bengal standards, but 4-7 in out of division games, and 1-4 in the last 5 games of the years are not good at all.

Still, I'm afraid Mike & Marvin will view it as a success

Considering they done what few fans believed they could (about what I expected, but wasn't hoping for a playoff win at least though) I'd call it a succesful season, assuming they improve from here on for the next handful of years while we have Carson. And he really needs to do some improving himself in the offseason, rough season for him.

[redsfanmia]

Something is wrong with Palmer physically. He's borderline terrible at this point.

Oh yeah, Shayne Graham...see ya.

I was shocked to see how bad Palmer is now, I am a Colts fan and thought that maybe I was just spoiled watching Manning.

[joshnky]

Well, we should see several changes before next year...

Graham will be gone and you might see Chad and Brat go as well.

This team isn't far off. If Carson can turn the corner (or is he done??) with an improved receiving corp and offensive scheme, that combined with the defense should be enough.

On the glass empty side, the Bengals will face a division winner schedule and the Ravens and Steelers don't stay down for long.

[Playadlc]

I was shocked to see how bad Palmer is now, I am a Colts fan and thought that maybe I was just spoiled watching Manning.

I really think something is wrong with his arm. He isn't the same QB he was a couple seasons ago. He struggles to make even the simplest passes. He is going down the path of Drew Bledsoe.

[sonny]

Wikipedia has been updated saying Shayne was cut on Jan 10th. Pretty funny.

[TeamSelig]

Graham and Brat need canned, although I guess I'm only saying that in reaction to a bad game. Offense was terrible, including Palmer. WTF was wrong with him? He was the last player that I thought would choke in the playoffs.

Revis is tough, but it seems like every play of his is a borderline pass interference. He is really good at being juuust physical enough to not get a flag thrown.

[redsfanmia]

I really think something is wrong with his arm. He isn't the same QB he was a couple seasons ago. He struggles to make even the simplest passes.


Did he have surgury to correct the arm problem for last year or did he just rehab?

I watched the Bengals play 4 or 5 times and other than the Bears game and the 4th quarter of a Steeler game I thought he just looked like Bruce Gradkowski.

[SunDeck]

I was shocked to see how bad Palmer is now, I am a Colts fan and thought that maybe I was just spoiled watching Manning.

I think you underestimate how important Chris Henry was to the team. The Jets just needed to stick it to 85 all game and they did that. And as a Colts fan, I think you would recognize how important it is to have options when you throw the ball; just think how hard it would be for Manning without having the best TE in the game.

[TeamSelig]

Henry barely got any PT. The reason Palmer is playing terrible is that he can't hit his targets. Half of the completions are just good plays by the receivers.

[redsfanmia]

I think you underestimate how important Chris Henry was to the team. The Jets just needed to stick it to 85 all game and they did that. And as a Colts fan, I think you would recognize how important it is to have options when you throw the ball; just think how hard it would be for Manning without having the best TE in the game.

I understand how important Henry was to the offense, he stretched the field.

Look and see who Manning was throwing to this season, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Jacob Tamme and Tom Santi, good quarterbacks make do with what they have. Tom Brady has Randy Moss and Wes Welker now but look at who he threw to in the past, Dion Branch, Troy Brown and so on, not exactly pro bowlers.

I do not think Clark is the best TE in the game, he drops too many catchable passes. Clark is very good but not the best.

[flyer85]

The Bungles showed up today. Palmer was awful as well

[CTA513]

Palmer needs to get his thumb fixed on his left hand and then work on his mechanics so he can stop over throwing WRs.

[TC81190]

Palmer definitely needs (and needed) surgery.

[sonny]

Well, we should see several changes before next year...

Graham will be gone and you might see Chad and Brat go as well.

This team isn't far off. If Carson can turn the corner (or is he done??) with an improved receiving corp and offensive scheme, that combined with the defense should be enough.

On the glass empty side, the Bengals will face a division winner schedule and the Ravens and Steelers don't stay down for long.

I would not be suprised to see a QB contigency plan. Carson, no matter what he says, is a different QB than he was 2 years ago. Is it his arm? Maybe. But it's his head too. He's never really got on track this year, throwing passes that are way off the mark.

Either through Free Agency or the draft, I think we'll see someone more competent behind Carson.

As far as Brat goes. He better be a goner or I will not watch another Bengal game as long as he's the OC. It's like playing poker with a guy who holds his cards backwards.

[UKFlounder]

They made the playoffs in 2005, but did not get back until 2009. They have the same people making personnel decisions. Assuming they improve, they may be back, but they also have a tougher schedule.

I also think it's very difficult to assume they'll improve. They're much more likely to be content with what they've got, but I hope they prove me wrong. Maybe 19 straight years w/o a playoff win will be what motivates them. Time will tell.



Considering they done what few fans believed they could (about what I expected, but wasn't hoping for a playoff win at least though) I'd call it a succesful season, assuming they improve from here on for the next handful of years while we have Carson. And he really needs to do some improving himself in the offseason, rough season for him.

[yab1112]

Palmer needs to get his thumb fixed on his left hand and then work on his mechanics so he can stop over throwing WRs.

I know he hasn't been the Palmer of old all season long, but at no point during the year has he been as off as he was tonight. I don't know what to think.

[forfreelin04]

As the PBP man today, I feel a sense of responsibility to do a bit of ranting.

It doesn't bother me that they lost. The Jets had a great game plan. Sanchez made high percentage throws and they didn't turn the ball over. They also had some great play calls for TD's.

However, what bothers me the most is the fact that the Bengals time and time again must find a way to embarrass themselves. Shayne Graham, a franchise kicker, can't find a way to make two very easy field goals? Did he eat at Skyline with Brad St. Louis before the game? At the very least, he just saved us some money in free agency next year.

Regardless, Palmer played like a rookie. (All WR excuses aside....his throws were off most of the game) Ocho could do little when really needed. Zimmer and his D choked when they really needed them. (Especially against the TE) Brat needs to go. Benson bailed him out of another poor playcalling special. Brat is a college coordinator posing in the NFL. He's conned for too long. Cut bait!

[traderumor]

Right now, I'm not even reading this thread. Good year Bengals. Things stacked up against you several times and you fought through it and made it to the playoffs.

I'll go back and read it later. I'm disappointed, but the better team won that game.

[GAC]

That initial drive to start the game for a 7-0 lead was impressive. Where'd that team go? The remainder was simply embarrassing. They played out of sync, and it looked like without much fire.

Two of the top run defenses in the NFL, and they both gave up 171 yds rushing.

So what was the difference? The tale of two QBs.

Sanchez was the lowest ranked QB in the playoffs, and ended the game with a QB rating of 139.4. An efficient 12/15 for 182 yds, but most importantly - played mistake free football.

Palmer looked terrible. That's all I'm gonna say.

[CTA513]

I know he hasn't been the Palmer of old all season long, but at no point during the year has he been as off as he was tonight. I don't know what to think.

Hes not finishing his throws like he should which leaves the ball up high.
Him not being on the same page with his WRs could be fixed by them all working out together this offseason instead of just 1 or 2 working out with Palmer.

[forfreelin04]

They made the playoffs in 2005, but did not get back until 2009. They have the same people making personnel decisions. Assuming they improve, they may be back, but they also have a tougher schedule.

I also think it's very difficult to assume they'll improve. They're much more likely to be content with what they've got, but I hope they prove me wrong. Maybe 19 straight years w/o a playoff win will be what motivates them. Time will tell.

They need Zimmer back next year or is there is no way they return to the playoffs. I can't think of any division besides the NFC East that contains three playoff contenders each year.

[forfreelin04]

That initial drive to start the game for a 7-0 lead was impressive. Where'd that team go? The remainder was simply embarrassing. They played out of sync, and it looked like without much fire.

Two of the top run defenses in the NFL, and they both gave up 171 yds rushing.

So what was the difference? The tale of two QBs.

Sanchez was the lowest ranked QB in the playoffs, and ended the game with a QB rating of 139.4. An efficient 12/15 for 182 yds, but most importantly - played mistake free football.

Palmer looked terrible. That's all I'm gonna say.

Not to be nit picky, but the first drive was a Coles fumble. That was huge. It could have been 14-0 in the 1st quarter.

[GAC]

Not to be nit picky, but the first drive was a Coles fumble. That was huge. It could have been 14-0 in the 1st quarter.

Yep. You're right. Completely forget about that fumble.

[Joseph]

Is it baseball season now?

[CTA513]

Not to be nit picky, but the first drive was a Coles fumble. That was huge. It could have been 14-0 in the 1st quarter.

I can't believe hes been in the league as long as he has and he still holds the ball out away from him all the time.

[MWM]

On the bright side, this is about the first time I've ever been optimistic going into next season. I knew the 2005 team was a fluke and wasn't built for sustained winning. But this team has the foundation to be good for several years.

That being said, that all goes out the window if Zimmer leaves which I think he probably will. He seems a little miffed that Mikey boy hasn't talked extension with him.

[TeamSelig]

How many years did we give Coles? He has been a non factor all season and really hurt us with that fumble. I'd be fine with seeing his departure.

[joshnky]

How many years did we give Coles? He has been a non factor all season and really hurt us with that fumble. I'd be fine with seeing his departure.

He's been a good receiver throughout his career. Hopefully, an off-season spent with Palmer will build his trust in him.

Thinking positively: Palmer should be better next year with another off-season to heal from last years injury; Coles and Caldwell should improve; the TE position can't be any worse; Benson will be back and Scott should improve.

Really, on the offensive side of the ball, they were bad enough this year that they can get better throughout the off-season simply through healing and experience coupled with some minor pickups.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Not much to say. A very frustrating end to a very successful season. Hopefully they can build on this and stay healthy (for once) next year.

With that said, I'm thinking Shayne Graham either needs a shrink or shown the door. He just never seems to be able to hit the clutch FG, whether it be long, medium, or chippy. I think he's damaged goods at this point.

For the draft, I would look for a speedy WR and more depth on the DL. Oh yeah, and hopefully Andre Smith can contribute something next year. The OL needs a bit of help with it's pass protection.

If they can do that and stay somewhat healthy, I'm thinking 10-6 or better next season.

[HokieRed]

Not to be nit picky, but the first drive was a Coles fumble. That was huge. It could have been 14-0 in the 1st quarter.

Not to be picky, but a better throw and there's no fumble on that play.

[CTA513]

Not to be picky, but a better throw and there's no fumble on that play.

It wasn't a good throw and Coles didn't help himself out by continuing to hold the ball out away from his body like hes done all season.

[Yachtzee]

Considering what I thought of the Bengals before the season, I think it was a great year with some room for improvement for sure. The Offensive and Defensive line play was better than I've seen in years. The Defense was altogether a monster this season compared to years past. They suffered significant injuries to key players and didn't let it destroy their season.

What I'd like to see for next season: Zimmer extended, Brat gone, new QB coach for Palmer as well (I think he needs a fresh set of eyes working with him on his mechanics), better receivers and tight ends, the guys they lost to injury this year come back healthy next season. Of course none of that will likely happen, but I'm not going to stress over it now. There's golf to be played and tennis to be served.

[Hoosier Red]

It's hard to fault Zimmer after the defense carried the ball for the entire season but today's gameplan was just odd.

There was no rush all day on Sanchez. Not because the blitzes were picked up but because there were almost no blitzes. You have a rookie quarterback and you're afraid to rush him?

Strange.

[WVRed]

On the bright side, this is about the first time I've ever been optimistic going into next season. I knew the 2005 team was a fluke and wasn't built for sustained winning. But this team has the foundation to be good for several years.

That being said, that all goes out the window if Zimmer leaves which I think he probably will. He seems a little miffed that Mikey boy hasn't talked extension with him.

I agree with you to an extent, but that extent is defense. And like you said, if Zimmer leaves for DC, that all leaves with him.

I was actually more optimistic with the 2005 team because we had a young nucleus in place that contributed. David Pollack, Odell Thurman, and Chris Henry highlighting a rookie draft class. Carson Palmer started clicking with Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmanzadeh. Rudi Johnson became a feature back and Chris Perry leading the league in receptions for a running back.

In 2005 I worried about defense, in 2010 I am now more worried about offense. Carson Palmer does not look the same. We have Cedric Benson who is our franchise back by far. Ochocinco is being covered to where we can't get the ball to him. TJ and Henry (RIP) are gone and the replacements haven't exactly stepped up.

Looking to the offseason, we need weapons. I would be thrilled if no picks in the first three rounds are spent on defense, and I would rarely say that. We need any type of receiver, whether it be a wideout or a TE. Maybe some depth on the offensive line and if somebody slips into round 2, a possible successor to Palmer.

As for Zimmer, I realize this is a pipe dream, but I would actually be happy to see Marvin and Brat both let go and promote Zimmer to head coach. With any other team, Marvin would likely have felt the heat for wasting two challenges, especially with the Ochocinco catch late in the game ruled incomplete.

[forfreelin04]

I saw on Nick Brunker's blog at 1530 that Willie Anderson is already trumpeting Hue Jackson (QB coach for the Ravens) to be the OC next year.

[Roy Tucker]

I don't care what Carson says, there is something wrong with his elbow. He was a much more accurate passer before his elbow injury.

Graham's FG misses were devastating. Kickers are a dime a dozen in the NFL. Go get a new one.

[HeatherC1212]

*sigh* I guess I don't have to worry about following the playoffs when I'm on vacation later this week. That was a tough game to watch and I didn't even watch it for the whole game. :(

It sucks that the season ended this way but these guys should be proud of themselves for overcoming so much heartache this year, winning the AFC North, and getting to the playoffs. It's probably hard for them to look at it that way right now but they totally turned the team around from last year's disaster and with a lot of young talent on the team, they could easily make another run next year if they get the right pieces. I would love to see the Bengals somehow get Mardy Gilyard in the draft because I think he could be a nice deep threat in their passing game. They've missed that with the loss of Chris Henry. They also need to keep Zimmer no matter what, either get Shayne G. a head doctor or give him his walking papers, and get a new OC to help the offense.

[Razor Shines]

Well this sucks. I was looking forward to a Bengals - Colts playoff game. On top of that I really didn't want the Colts to have to play the Jets.

[CTA513]

Well this sucks. I was looking forward to a Bengals - Colts playoff game. On top of that I really didn't want the Colts to have to play the Jets.

The Colts should be able to beat the Jets unless they get ran over but even then the Colts still have an offense that can make up for that.
They also have a really good pair of pass rushing DEs which is something the Bengals don't have.

[WMR]

I'm extremely concerned for Carson Palmer. I hope what's wrong with him is fixable and he is able to come close to regaining at least somewhat near his pre-Kimo mugging ability level. His accuracy was woefully bad today.

The Bengals also need a new offensive coordinator, better WRs, and a legitimate NFL TE. Can one year of seasoning/growth lead to Chase Coffman becoming that guy? How is he progressing? IS he progressing?

I can't believe I'm typing it, but the Bengals must think about their future at quarterback. I really hope Carson can get himself fixed. I want him to be our quarterback.

[GAC]

Why do so many seem to think that there is something wrong physically with Palmer because he had a sub-par year? I"m personally not buying it.

Love notion of No. 9 as elite QB -- but Palmer simply isn't

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12763604/love-notion-of-no-9-as-elite-qb-but-palmer-simply-isnt

CINCINNATI -- Carson Palmer is not the quarterback you want him to be.

He's not the same player he was in 2005, the last time the Bengals won the AFC North, when he completed 67.8 percent of his passes for 3,836 yards, 32 touchdowns and just 12 interceptions. He's not the same guy he was in 2006 and 2007 when he threw for more than 4,000 yards a season. He's not the elite signal-caller you remember.

He's not the quarterback you want him to be. He can't be. Not in this run-heavy, run-first, run-Cedric-Benson-nearly-all-the-time offense. Not with this coaching staff and where it wants to take the team. Not at this point in his career. It's just not possible.

You want proof? Ask him that, assuming the Bengals continue to use this type of offensive scheme, if he can still be the All-Pro quarterback who recorded the gaudy statistics and made Pro Bowl rosters.

"No, other teams are throwing the ball a lot more and you can't keep up," Palmer said following the Bengals' 24-14 playoff loss to the Jets on Saturday. "The top three or four guys are in passing offenses that throw the ball a lot. It's statistically impossible. I can definitely do better and compete better and throw the ball better. But there are two or three teams in the league that throw the ball a lot more than they run it, and we run it a lot more than we throw it."

That wasn't the case Saturday, when the Bengals didn't run more often than they passed -- they just ran it a lot more successfully. But for the season, Cincinnati ran 505 times and threw 477; compare that to Peyton Manning's Colts, who threw 601 times and ran 366.

So, put the thought of Palmer as an elite quarterback out of your mind. Assuming the offensive coaches keep this same philosophy, Palmer won't be the top guy in the league. Or even close to a top guy.

That's not what's most disconcerting, though. What's really alarming is how Palmer performs when he actually takes his drops and looks to fling the ball down the field. He's just ... well, he's rather ordinary.

On Saturday, he completed 18 of 36 passes for 146 yards, a touchdown and an interception. He threw behind his receivers, he threw five feet over their heads. On one throw late in the game as Palmer tried to hit Chad Ochocinco on a corner route, the ball was so badly thrown that Ochocinco gave up on the play. And Ochocinco never gives up when he has a chance to make a highlight-reel catch.

It wasn't just Palmer's performance Saturday, though. His regular-season stats look like this: a 60.5 completion percentage, 3,094 yards (the lowest 16-game total he's ever produced), 21 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. He had one 300-yard passing game and was 1 of 11 for no yards in the regular-season finale against the Jets.

You know who he was comparable to this year? Washington's Jason Campbell. You know who had better statistics overall? Jacksonville's David Garrard.

This is not to say Palmer isn't a good teammate, because he most certainly is. He's a good leader. A tough guy who dives for first downs, knowing a linebacker is about to pop him. He's polite and unfailingly nice. He's the type of guy who holds the door open for others, even if you're 15 feet away. I like him as a person, we all like him.

And Saturday's dreadful Bengals performance wasn't all his fault. The coaching staff mismanaged the challenges. The defense couldn't stop the big run and couldn't get pressure on a rookie quarterback playing his first playoff game in a hostile environment with a wind chill of 9 degrees. Palmer didn't get much help from his receivers -- Ochocinco couldn't escape the clutches of Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis while Andre Caldwell and Laveranues Coles and Daniel Coats had a tough time hanging on to balls that should have been caught.

But is Palmer an elite quarterback, the kind of quarterback who's taken No. 1 in the draft? Is he worth the $118.75 million extension he received at the end of 2005?

Not if he's playing in this system.

"He took what we tried to do with the running game, the play-action and manage it and get us into good running situations," offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski said. "I'm very pleased with that aspect of it. I don't know that it was a big adjustment for him, but it was something he grasped, and as a leader, he took it. He got us into this situation. We fell short, but through what he did and how he did in concert with other guys, he helped us win the division."

But he couldn't win Saturday's first-round playoff game. Afterward, Palmer was asked if he preferred to switch back to a pass-heavy attack that utilized his throwing talents (if they are, in fact, still there).

"I prefer what wins," he said. "If the coaches go back to the drawing board and say what's going to win for us is throwing the ball more, that's great. If they think what's going to win is running the ball and playing defense, that's great. It's so much more complicated than saying, 'We're just going to throw it.' That's the simple answer. It's so much more in depth than that. There are a number of things we need to figure out as a team and decide what's best for us."

That's the kind of guy Palmer is. Team first, and he really means it. But at some point, this team needs a quarterback who's better than David Garrard and Jason Campbell, especially if ownership is paying him nine figures.

"I've seen better out of Palmer," was the pronouncement of Revis after the game.

But the question is this: Does that Palmer -- the elite quarterback and the quarterback you want him to be; the quarterback to whom Revis was referring -- still exist?

[dsmith421]

I'm extremely concerned for Carson Palmer. I hope what's wrong with him is fixable and he is able to come close to regaining at least somewhat near his pre-Kimo mugging ability level. His accuracy was woefully bad today.

Since the Kimo incident, everyone has been whistling past the graveyard with Palmer. Can we finally just say it? He's not good. He hasn't been good for some time.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Palmer is a pretty average QB by NFL standards. He's 30 and probably past the half-way point of his career. I had notions last off-season about trading him to SF or OAK for draft picks and offering Baltimore a 3rd or 4th rounder for Troy Smith and then also drafting a QB.

I think now I would explore the idea of trading him to Oakland.

If you can't trade him, you better figure something out. Get a better pass blocking O-line and a DeSean Jackson kind of gamebreaking WR in the draft. Oh yes, that DeSean Jackson, the one they passed on wheh they drafted Jerome Simpson two years ago. Ouch!

[macro]

I hope this isn't an apples to oranges comparison, but Ken Anderson was just about written off right before he won MVP.

[Joseph]

I think Palmer still has the ability, he just needs an OC that understands them and also some weapons to use. Chase Coffman next year hopefully can make some waves as a receiver. Hopefully we can get some safety help in the draft as well.

[Newport Red]

I can't believe people are suggesting the Bengals get rid of Marvin Lewis. This is the golden age of the post Paul Brown Bengals.

[CTA513]

I think Palmer still has the ability, he just needs an OC that understands them and also some weapons to use. Chase Coffman next year hopefully can make some waves as a receiver. Hopefully we can get some safety help in the draft as well.


I really want to see a new OC after the play calling I saw from both teams yesterday.

[The Operator]

I can't believe people are suggesting the Bengals get rid of Marvin Lewis. This is the golden age of the post Paul Brown Bengals.

I'm mixed on Marvin. Part of me realizes that even with the frustrations, Marvin's run has been better than anything we saw in the 1990's.

But, another side of me thinks that if you give anybody the best years of Chad Johnson, Carson Palmer, TJ, Rudi Johnson, etc., you can scrape together 8-8, 11-5, 8-8, 7-9, 4-11-1, and 10-6.

I realize the 4-11 is mostly from Carson's injury, but either way, Marvin has made quite the career out of going .500.

That's not to say I want him fired. But he needs to win a tad more consistently, IMO. And they most definitely need a new OC. Brat simply has to go. I can't tell you how many times that my brother, the fans around us and I were correctly predicting the exact play the offense was going to run. If the fans can call it, you bet the other team can.

[HeatherC1212]

I honestly don't really care what happens to Marvin but they have GOT to keep Zimmer. :eek:

[Tony Cloninger]

They were one easy Graham FG from going to the playoffs in 2006. Would not have gone far....but making it 2 years in a row to the playoffs is something done once around bengal land.

After reading that stuff on the WT twitter... It would be funny if marvin quit and Zimmer said no thanks and left for the DC job in WAS while turning down the HC here. It would say even worse things about working for Mikey.

[sonny]

As a Bengals fan, I have no reservations predicting a 27-13 win for the Jets.

Pretty Close, pret-ty close.

[Hoosier Red]

You know I've thought about this for my trip home.

If you give the offense credit for the two missed field goals, Carson and company put the team in position for 20 points on the board.
Against probably the best defense in the NFL 20 points should have been enough.

I actually think yesterday's game falls on the defense. You have to hold a rookie QB with an average running game and no great wide receivers to less than 20 points.

[The Operator]

That is a good point.

My first reaction is to give the D a bit of a pass though. They've been so great all year long, I think injuries and attrition finally caught up with them.

People's frustration with the offense has been brewing all season long. You'd think they could step up in the one game where the defense really needed them and they just didn't. Your defense can only bail you out so many times.

That being said, I still can't believe how little pressure they got on rookie Sanchez yesterday. He should have been seeing Bengals pass rushers in his sleep after the game, but instead he was barely touched. The Jets do have a great offensive line, though. One of the best in the game.

[George Foster]

I honestly don't really care what happens to Marvin but they have GOT to keep Zimmer. :eek:

Zimmer might get a head job. He just lost his wife. He might want a fresh start. New town, new job...a new house. It's hard going into the same house every night that you and your wife picked out. I've heard that is one of the hardest things about the death of a spouse. What ever happens to him, I wish him the very best.

[Yachtzee]

I think the D did a pretty good job for the most part, but just coudn't hold on with too many offensive drives ending in failure. They've been carrying the team all season and just could have used some good offensive drives in the past month of the season and haven't been getting them.

Right now my biggest concern (besides keeping Zimmer) is getting Palmer right. I know he still has the mind and the skills of an elite QB, as evidenced by some of his early season heroics when the Bengals were still being called the "Cardiac Cats" by the media. I feel like his issues are coming from his mechanics. Theismann may be a dummy, but he did note Palmer's misses seemed to be coming from bad mechanics. If I were the Bengals, I'd find a top-notch QB guru to work with him over the offseason to see if his problems can be worked out. I also wouldn't mind it if they picked up a decent backup. I imagine if the Bengals went the other route and just bailed on Palmer, I have fears of reliving the David Klingler era, when the Bengals dumped Boomer Esiason who continued to be productive with other teams while we fans suffered through bad QB after bad QB until Palmer (unless you count the brief period when Jeff Blake was good).

They also need to deal with the issues of drops when it comes to receivers not named Ochocinco. And of course Ochocinco could still probably use some work on his route running.

[Yachtzee]

Zimmer might get a head job. He just lost his wife. He might want a fresh start. New town, new job...a new house. It's hard going into the same house every night that you and your wife picked out. I've heard that is one of the hardest things about the death of a spouse. What ever happens to him, I wish him the very best.

I think it's foolish to try and guess what Zimmer is thinking. He's the only one who knows that. Thus, it is imperative for the Bengals to make him their best offer. If he accepts it or rejects it, that's up to him. But think he's going because he wants a fresh start is about the same as saying he wants to stay to be around the people who were there for him in his tough times. It's all just trying to put thoughts in a man's head.

[GAC]

I think Palmer still has the ability, he just needs an OC that understands them and also some weapons to use.

Bingo! Other then #85, who are real threats to compliment that in the receiving corp? That, IMO, has not only hurt the Bengals, but also Palmer. They miss guys like TJ and Henry.

And yeah, they need a really solid TE too. ;)

[Hoosier Red]

That is a good point.

My first reaction is to give the D a bit of a pass though. They've been so great all year long, I think injuries and attrition finally caught up with them.

People's frustration with the offense has been brewing all season long. You'd think they could step up in the one game where the defense really needed them and they just didn't. Your defense can only bail you out so many times.


That's true, I think all the criticisms of the offense are valid for the entire season, but for Saturday I put the blame on them. Well the defense and Shayne Graham. If you're playing a team with as good of a defense and as average at best of an offense as the Jets, you have to convert easy field goals, and you have to make 20 points stand up.

[bucksfan2]

Shayne Graham left 6 easy points on the board. That changes the complexion of the game. The Bengals should have been down 4 at one point instead of 10. With 3 TO's and the 2 minute warning they would have been able to do more. Instead Shanke missed 2 easy FG's and really hurt the Bengals chances of winning.

[Roy Tucker]

To put it in baseball terms, Palmer can't put the ball where he wants. His control is off. Its either mechanics or his elbow.

You watch other top-level QBs throw, they throw precisely and can pick on which side of the receiver they throw, high, low, etc etc. Probably to about a 6 inch square window. If given adequate time, they can find the open guy and put the ball where he can catch it and the DB can't.

But it seems that Palmer often makes a throw which makes the catch difficult.

Now, he doesn't get any favors from his receivers. NFL receivers should routinely make the difficult catch. Caldwell especially, Coles, and even sometimes Ochocinco don't seem to do that.

[traderumor]

To put it in baseball terms, Palmer can't put the ball where he wants. His control is off. Its either mechanics or his elbow.

You watch other top-level QBs throw, they throw precisely and can pick on which side of the receiver they throw, high, low, etc etc. Probably to about a 6 inch square window. If given adequate time, they can find the open guy and put the ball where he can catch it and the DB can't.

But it seems that Palmer often makes a throw which makes the catch difficult.

Now, he doesn't get any favors from his receivers. NFL receivers should routinely make the difficult catch. Caldwell especially, Coles, and even sometimes Ochocinco don't seem to do that.One of Palmer's strong suits has always been his ability to thread the needle and arm strength. Honestly, I think it is a stinky receiver corps that is running bad routes, unable to create separation, not able to match up with Palmer on read throws and making him look bad. I hear ya on the high throws and the throws behind the receivers, but I think they are glaring because he is now throwing to second rate receivers.

[cincrazy]

I worry about Palmer. I don't know whether his elbow is right or not. I understand that a poor pass blocking offensive line, a bad offensive coordinator, and crummy receivers can make you look bad. But he's also missed a TON of throws that he normally would make.

I fear that this man's prime is passing before our eyes, with nothing to show for it.

[KoryMac5]

NY media just ripping Marvin today for using up his challenges so quickly in the first half on such silly plays. I'm from the school that you should only use your challenges in a playoff game on plays that will result in 6 pts. Has anyone in Cincinnati besides those of us in the gamethread asked Marvin about why he burned these challenges.

[traderumor]

NY media just ripping Marvin today for using up his challenges so quickly in the first half on such silly plays. I'm from the school that you should only use your challenges in a playoff game on plays that will result in 6 pts. Has anyone in Cincinnati besides those of us in the gamethread asked Marvin about why he burned these challenges.I agree that they were pretty lame challenges that he had little chance of winning. Of course, it seemed every close call was actually called right and simply went against the Bengals.

[joshnky]

I agree that they were pretty lame challenges that he had little chance of winning. Of course, it seemed every close call was actually called right and simply went against the Bengals.

I thought the first challenge was borderline acceptable because it was a critical play but the second was pretty ridiculous. However, as you pointed out, I didn't notice any other challenge-able calls the rest of the game that would have changed the outcome.

[justincredible]

You know I've thought about this for my trip home.

If you give the offense credit for the two missed field goals, Carson and company put the team in position for 20 points on the board.
Against probably the best defense in the NFL 20 points should have been enough.

I actually think yesterday's game falls on the defense. You have to hold a rookie QB with an average running game and no great wide receivers to less than 20 points.

Jets rushing offense ranks:

YPG #1
TDs #3(tied)
1stD #1
Avg #5(tied)

Those numbers don't add up to an "average running game" to me.

[Dom Heffner]

You know I've thought about this for my trip home.

If you give the offense credit for the two missed field goals, Carson and company put the team in position for 20 points on the board.
Against probably the best defense in the NFL 20 points should have been enough.

I actually think yesterday's game falls on the defense. You have to hold a rookie QB with an average running game and no great wide receivers to less than 20 points.

Average running game? They were number one in the NFL.

[Hoosier Red]

All right fair enough, their running game was ranked #1, but still convert the two field goals and 20 points should be good enough to beat the Jets.

[justincredible]

Actually, the Jets scored 21.8 points per game. So you would've needed 22 points. ;)

[GAC]

Honestly, I think it is a stinky receiver corps that is running bad routes, unable to create separation, not able to match up with Palmer on read throws and making him look bad.

I agree. It looks like Palmer and his receivers weren't in sync at all this year.

[traderumor]

NY media just ripping Marvin today for using up his challenges so quickly in the first half on such silly plays.BTW, stay tuned. NY media will have a new target next week, and it will most likely be the plump, smiling, manic depressive coach of their team.

[justincredible]

BTW, stay tuned. NY media will have a new target next week, and it will most likely be the plump, smiling, manic depressive coach of their team.

Nope. It'll be Norv. ;)

[HeatherC1212]

I agree. It looks like Palmer and his receivers weren't in sync at all this year.

I agree. Palmer wasn't as comfortable with the majority of the receivers and I think it showed up in the passing game. I also think they were really hurt with the loss of Chris Henry to that group.