Bengals 2010 pt. I

[Yachtzee]

His yards per catch average is awful (not to mention the fumbles).

His ability to catch and hold onto the ball is my primary concern.

[Boss-Hog]

His ability to catch and hold onto the ball is my primary concern.
Agreed - and I can think of two key instances last year where he didn't hold on to the ball.

[Hoosier Red]

Agreed - and I can think of two key instances last year where he didn't hold on to the ball.

His fumbles were on Kick off returns though weren't they? Everybody fumbles once in a while, so it's not like he was Chris Perry or anything.
I'm really interested to see what Shipley will be able to do. If he's able to return kicks and work in the slot better than Caldwell, and to return punts better than Cosby, it might come down to who they want to keep just to keep Shipley from over extending himself.

[GIDP]

Adalius Thomas anyone?

http://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/12884385674

[Boss-Hog]

His fumbles were on Kick off returns though weren't they? Everybody fumbles once in a while, so it's not like he was Chris Perry or anything.
I'm really interested to see what Shipley will be able to do. If he's able to return kicks and work in the slot better than Caldwell, and to return punts better than Cosby, it might come down to who they want to keep just to keep Shipley from over extending himself.
One of them was on a kickoff (the Oakland game). I'm not trying to make it sound as if I hate Caldwell - I just think what he gives them is fairly easy to replace.

[Hoosier Red]

One of them was on a kickoff (the Oakland game). I'm not trying to make it sound as if I hate Caldwell - I just think what he gives them is fairly easy to replace.

And I agree. That's how you improve as a team overall, the first and sometime second pick should be drastic improvements over what you have(watch out Robert Geathers)

The remaining picks are going to be marginal improvements over your back up players. That's why I thought this draft was especially good. Aside from the two guards who will probably take a few years and will be on a practice squad this year. Everyone else will either perform better than the backup they're replacing, or will make the backup better through competition.

I think ultimately Shipley replaces Caldwell and Jones replaces Simpson on the roster. Than its' down to if Caldwell can beat out Cosby for the last receiver/punt returner role.

I think Ghee will push Trent to be a better nickle option and may replace one of the safeties in a nickle package.

I think Atkins pushes the fourth DT off the roster and pushes Sims and Johnson.

I think Muckelroy provides depth and special teams help. And pushes guys like Abdul Hodge for playing time.

I think the Otis, Briscoe, and the other lineman(can't remember the name) go to the practice squad where they'll probably be better than the guys currently on the practice squad.

[WVRed]

Adalius Thomas anyone?

http://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/12884385674

Pass.

Might take a flier on John Henderson to see if he has anything left. Might be a good run stuffer up the middle.

[Cedric]

Pass.

Might take a flier on John Henderson to see if he has anything left. Might be a good run stuffer up the middle.

Pass on Henderson. He's toast and I don't want him trying to kill/break the necks of our players in practice.

[Benihana]

If we sign a veteran FA at this point, I want Alan Faneca.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see the Bengals make a run at Colerain High's BJ Askew.

[GIDP]

Faneca is probably better than Nate Livings lol

[KoryMac5]

Should be a tough training camp for the Bengals to decide who has a spot and who doesn't. If the light bulb finally clicks for Simpson after 3 years in the system it gets pretty crowded quick in the wide out competition.

I would think Cosby might get the boot if Shipley takes over the return duties.

[GIDP]

Id dislike to lose Cosby.

[Redhook]

Should be a tough training camp for the Bengals to decide who has a spot and who doesn't. If the light bulb finally clicks for Simpson after 3 years in the system it gets pretty crowded quick in the wide out competition.

I would think Cosby might get the boot if Shipley takes over the return duties.

I like Quan too. Good all-around player. Not great, but gets the job done.

As far as Simpson goes, he's done with the Bengals. Two full years and can't touch the field. It's so pathetic I'm lost for words. You can make an argument that he's one of the worst draft picks ever by the Bengals. Not only does he stink, they could've picked him 2 or 3 rounds later. What a waste!

[KoryMac5]

It is hard to see what they saw in Simpson because none of us have seen him on the field. We have had some wasted picks in the past but Simpson indeed does take the cake. Atleast Akili Smith played a few games for the Bengals. With our receiver corps decimated he couldn't even sniff the field.

Ocho
Bryant
Shipley
Caldwell
Briscoe

Cosby might hang on as he is stout on teams. If there is a roster spot needed elsewhere and Shipley can return I would expect Cosby to get the boot if Marvin feels he can return punts as well as handle kick offs. No use keeping two slot receivers/ kick off return guys.

[WVRed]

I like Quan too. Good all-around player. Not great, but gets the job done.

As far as Simpson goes, he's done with the Bengals. Two full years and can't touch the field. It's so pathetic I'm lost for words. You can make an argument that he's one of the worst draft picks ever by the Bengals. Not only does he stink, they could've picked him 2 or 3 rounds later. What a waste!

I always thought the Bengals had success with their second round picks under Marvin, but some of them you were kinda left scratching your head.


Eric Steinbach=Had a productive career when he was here, ended up in Cleveland.
Keiwan Ratliff=Was a decent punt returner, never did much as a CB
Madieu Williams=Another reach, looked like a promising rookie. Injuries kinda knocked him off track.
Odell Thurman=Would have been a star if he would have kept his head on straight. I still think of what that class might have been (Pollack, Thurman, and Henry)
Andrew Whitworth=Decent, has just been moved around a lot.
Kenny Irons=Probably a bigger bust than Simpson. Never understood this pick.
Jerome Simpson=Pretty much summed up all across the board. Especially over DeSean Jackson.
Rey Maualuga=I think Cincinnati would have rioted has this selection not been made.

[Benihana]

I always thought the Bengals had success with their second round picks under Marvin, but some of them you were kinda left scratching your head.


Eric Steinbach=Had a productive career when he was here, ended up in Cleveland.
Keiwan Ratliff=Was a decent punt returner, never did much as a CB
Madieu Williams=Another reach, looked like a promising rookie. Injuries kinda knocked him off track.
Odell Thurman=Would have been a star if he would have kept his head on straight. I still think of what that class might have been (Pollack, Thurman, and Henry)
Andrew Whitworth=Decent, has just been moved around a lot.
Kenny Irons=Probably a bigger bust than Simpson. Never understood this pick.
Jerome Simpson=Pretty much summed up all across the board. Especially over DeSean Jackson.
Rey Maualuga=I think Cincinnati would have rioted has this selection not been made.


Steinbach and Maulauga were GREAT picks. Both guys are All-Pro caliber players that should have gone in the first round.

Williams and Whitworth were very solid 2nd round picks- quality starters but not superstars. Also both seem to be good character guys.

Ratliff was pretty mediocre all-around, both as a nickel guy and as a returner. Definitely not worth a 2nd round pick.

Thurman and Simpson were unmitigated disasters. Neither player should have ever been drafted, albeit for different reasons. Thurman, like Chris Henry, had serious character concerns even before the draft, and his career has gone down the Lawrence Phillips path as a result. I hope Carlos Dunlap does not fall into this category. Jerome Simpson was a no-talent @$$clown that was a 6th-7th round pick by virtually every other talent evaluator in the world. I don't know how or why the Bengals messed this up as badly as they did.

We'll never know what we would have had with Kenny Irons had he not gotten hurt, although he also carried some significant baggage with him.

Ironically, the pre-Marvin Bengals always had great success with their 2nd round picks for one reason or another. Carl Pickens, Tony McGee, Darnay Scott and Corey Dillon just to name a few. They did start getting off track once they began selecting DBs in the 2nd round every year. Artrell Hawkins, Charles Fisher, and Mark Roman never quite lived up to their billing.

[Benihana]

Looking back, the 2004 and 2005 drafts were pretty awful.

Chris Perry, Keiwan Ratliff, and Madieu Williams as the top 3 in 2004.
David Pollack, Odell Thurman, and Chris Henry as the top 3 in 2005.

The three worst decisions of the Marvin draft era (and we knew it at the time):

1. Chris Perry over Stephen Jackson
2. Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson
3a. Andre Smith over Michael Crabtree
3b. Chase Coffman over anybody

Let's just hope we don't have to add any of the choices below to that list.
Carlos Dunlap over Golden Tate
Jermaine Gresham over Dez Bryant
Jordan Shipley over Colt McCoy/Mardy Gilyard

[WVRed]

Looking back, the 2004 and 2005 drafts were pretty awful.

Chris Perry, Keiwan Ratliff, and Madieu Williams as the top 3 in 2004.
David Pollack, Odell Thurman, and Chris Henry as the top 3 in 2005.

The three worst decisions of the Marvin draft era (and we knew it at the time):

1. Chris Perry over Stephen Jackson
2. Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson
3a. Andre Smith over Michael Crabtree
3b. Chase Coffman over anybody

Let's just hope we don't have to add any of the choices below to that list.
Carlos Dunlap over Golden Tate
Jermaine Gresham over Dez Bryant
Jordan Shipley over Colt McCoy/Mardy Gilyard

Kinda hard to judge the Coffman pick as nobody picked later than him has done anything yet. Same with Andre Smith, but I don't see how it would have been Crabtree. I was hoping for Eugene Monroe. We desperately needed O-Line help.

One DUI and you are ready to kick Dunlap to the curb? I give him credit for coming out and admitting he was wrong and that it was the first and last time it would happen. It's not like he is Chris Henry in that regard.

I'm not going to fault the Bengals on not picking McCoy. Why pick somebody that high when he is never going to get on the field?

[Yachtzee]

Looking back, the 2004 and 2005 drafts were pretty awful.

Chris Perry, Keiwan Ratliff, and Madieu Williams as the top 3 in 2004.
David Pollack, Odell Thurman, and Chris Henry as the top 3 in 2005.

The three worst decisions of the Marvin draft era (and we knew it at the time):

1. Chris Perry over Stephen Jackson
2. Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson
3a. Andre Smith over Michael Crabtree
3b. Chase Coffman over anybody

Let's just hope we don't have to add any of the choices below to that list.
Carlos Dunlap over Golden Tate
Jermaine Gresham over Dez Bryant
Jordan Shipley over Colt McCoy/Mardy Gilyard

Chris Perry, Simpson, and Coffman I can see, but Smith over Crabtree? You mean the WR who threatened to hold out the entire 2009 season because he felt he should be paid like a higher pick because mock drafts had him going higher? That's just silly. Last thing the Bengals need is another WR worried more about money than contributing on the field. He seems like the type of guy who will make every contract negotiation a real headache. Andre Smith's holdout stunk and the broken foot didn't help, but on the plus side, he's had a season to absorb the playbook and receive the tutelage of pro coaches and veteran teammates. If he turns out to be a good player, it may well be that the 2009 season save him one year of wear and tear on the body. I will always support first round draft picks that strengthen the OL or the DL. Good receivers can be found anywhere in the draft.

I don't think you can judge this year's picks until they've had a chance to play a season or two. People get all wrapped up in projections made by the Mel Kipers of the world, but when it comes down to it, we have no idea how any of the players just drafted are going to adjust to playing football at the NFL level. The NFL game moves much faster than the College game and there are plenty of players every year who just can't make the jump. Natural talent can only take a player so far. That's why there are so many 1st round busts and late round steals.

[Yachtzee]

I'm not going to fault the Bengals on not picking McCoy. Why pick somebody that high when he is never going to get on the field?

If they're picking a QB to be a back up and an insurance policy for Palmer, no need to go higher than the 4th round. The new Browns have had a history of picking QBs high and then not making a firm decision on the starter, resulting in disgruntled fans demanding the team start one guy or another. If the Browns pull another training camp where "everyone has the chance to start" rather than coming out with a plan where maybe McCoy is sitting the first year to learn the system while Delhomme and Wallace take their lumps, it could end up being another Browns QB catastrophe.

[Benihana]

If they're picking a QB to be a back up and an insurance policy for Palmer, no need to go higher than the 4th round. The new Browns have had a history of picking QBs high and then not making a firm decision on the starter, resulting in disgruntled fans demanding the team start one guy or another. If the Browns pull another training camp where "everyone has the chance to start" rather than coming out with a plan where maybe McCoy is sitting the first year to learn the system while Delhomme and Wallace take their lumps, it could end up being another Browns QB catastrophe.

Holmgren has already stated publicly that McCoy will sit the bench the entire season, barring catastrophe.

I am worried about Carson- I think that this will truly be his make or break year. He hasn't really ever rebounded from his injuries, and while one can blame his lack of success last year on a lack of weapons, this year there is no more excuses. Between Chad, Antonio, Gresham and Shipley, he clearly has the weapons.

I would have like to see McCoy mainly for pure value at that point in the draft. The fact that he would be a good long term investment and insurance policy for Carson helps also. The fact that you'd be taking him away from the Browns would just be gravy. Even if he sits for two years, worst case scenario he is still attractive trade bait to a team in need of a QB. In terms of your argument, would you rather get a 1st round talent in the 3rd or a 4th round talent in the 4th? Because IMO that was the choice they faced in terms of selecting a QB. If they selected McCoy, they then could have chosen between Shipley and Gilyard presumably (whichever was available) for their second pick in the third round. That said, I'm also happy with who we got in that round.

[Benihana]

Kinda hard to judge the Coffman pick as nobody picked later than him has done anything yet. Same with Andre Smith, but I don't see how it would have been Crabtree. I was hoping for Eugene Monroe. We desperately needed O-Line help.

One DUI and you are ready to kick Dunlap to the curb? I give him credit for coming out and admitting he was wrong and that it was the first and last time it would happen. It's not like he is Chris Henry in that regard.

I'm not going to fault the Bengals on not picking McCoy. Why pick somebody that high when he is never going to get on the field?

Who said I'm ready to kick Dunlap to the curb? I am concerned about his character, as are/were most teams. The fact that Belicheck took just about every player on the Florida defense except him is somewhat alarming, especially given his close relationship with Urban Meyer.

[macro]

Ironically, the pre-Marvin Bengals always had great success with their 2nd round picks for one reason or another. Carl Pickens, Tony McGee, Darnay Scott and Corey Dillon just to name a few. They did start getting off track once they began selecting DBs in the 2nd round every year. Artrell Hawkins, Charles Fisher, and Mark Roman never quite lived up to their billing.

Other second round picks have included Bill Bergy (1969), Pete Johnson (1977), Dan Ross (1979), Cris Collinsworth (1981), Boomer Esiason (1984), Ickey Woods (1988), and Chad Johnson (2001). Whether true or not, it's easy to perceive that the franchise has had as many "name" players come from the second round as from the first.

EDIT: While digging around for the above information, I was reminded that in 1995, the Bengals traded their #5 and #36 overall picks to the Panthers for the #1 overall pick, which they used on Ki Jana Carter. They could've taken two of Steve McNair, Warren Sapp, or Terrell Davis, instead.

[Hoosier Red]

I am worried about Carson- I think that this will truly be his make or break year. He hasn't really ever rebounded from his injuries, and while one can blame his lack of success last year on a lack of weapons, this year there is no more excuses. Between Chad, Antonio, Gresham and Shipley, he clearly has the weapons.



Depends on which injury you're speaking of.
In 2006 and 2007 he had his best year's statistically. In 2008 he was hurt. And 2009 there were a lot of issues, from coming back from a shoulder injury to having fewer weapons to work with to having a line that was better at run blocking than pass blocking to having little nagging injuries like his wrist which kept play action fakes from being effective.

[bucksfan2]

Looking back, the 2004 and 2005 drafts were pretty awful.

Chris Perry, Keiwan Ratliff, and Madieu Williams as the top 3 in 2004.
David Pollack, Odell Thurman, and Chris Henry as the top 3 in 2005.

The three worst decisions of the Marvin draft era (and we knew it at the time):

1. Chris Perry over Stephen Jackson
2. Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson
3a. Andre Smith over Michael Crabtree
3b. Chase Coffman over anybody

Let's just hope we don't have to add any of the choices below to that list.
Carlos Dunlap over Golden Tate
Jermaine Gresham over Dez Bryant
Jordan Shipley over Colt McCoy/Mardy Gilyard

Without the three players from the 2005 draft the Bengals don't make the playoffs in 2005. You can't hold injuries, or death for that matter, against a team. Odell and Henry were serious character risks but you couldn't deny the effect they had on the field. No one has a crystal ball that would tell you which players would be seriously injured in the upcoming years.

I am going to take you to task on some of your worst decisions.

1. Perry over Jackson. Injuries limited Perry during his time as a Bengal. When he was fully healthy, in 05 I believe, he showed why the Bengals like him. He could carry the ball and created match up problems with the defense. I know Jackson was the popular guy but the Bengals already had Rudi and they wanted more of a match up nightmare in Perry. Unfortunately injuries limited what he could do.

2. Simpson over Jackson. I wanted the Bengals to take Jackson but there was a pretty good reason a top 15 talent fell into the middle of the 2nd round. Jackson was known as a prima dona going back to his high school days. He did nothing to dispel that during his time at Cal and had those same character issues entering the draft. Had the Bengals not been going through the same things with Chad that would have been a different story. I remember a lot of complaining about not taking Limas Sweed which really would have been a wash as both have been ineffective in the NFL.

3. Smith was the right pick. The Bengals had issues on the line and Crabtree wouldn't have helped there. Im actually quite happy the Bengals didn't take Crabtree. The jury is still out on Smith but I don't know how you can say that was a bad decision.

3b. The reason Coffmann was ineffective last season had more to do with injuries than any performance related issue. Guy is the all time leading TE in catches in NCAA history. Don't see how you can pass that up in the 3rd round.

Awful negative take of this years draft. I wasn't too happy with the Dunlap pick but I think this draft was very deep in WR. I don't think there would be any complaining about not taking Gilyard if he hadn't played at UC. The more I think about it the more I like the Shipply pick. I wanted the Bengals to take a shot at McCoy in the 3rd round but there are a lot of people who don't think he will make it as an NFL QB. Can't say I don't see the concerns there either.

[Tony Cloninger]

I wish they could have picked John Skelton or tried Tim Hiller as an UFA......You might think of drafting a future QB next year IF Carson does not improve with all the help given to him....but this year...with McCoy?
Do not agree with that and would have been disappointed of they went that route.

I just worry about the OL.....I think they are over valuing guys like Livings and the other G who's name escapes me.... and I worry that Williams will fall of the cliff.

I am all for getting Faneca in here and putting him next to Whitworth.

[Cedric]

Without the three players from the 2005 draft the Bengals don't make the playoffs in 2005. You can't hold injuries, or death for that matter, against a team. Odell and Henry were serious character risks but you couldn't deny the effect they had on the field. No one has a crystal ball that would tell you which players would be seriously injured in the upcoming years.

I am going to take you to task on some of your worst decisions.

1. Perry over Jackson. Injuries limited Perry during his time as a Bengal. When he was fully healthy, in 05 I believe, he showed why the Bengals like him. He could carry the ball and created match up problems with the defense. I know Jackson was the popular guy but the Bengals already had Rudi and they wanted more of a match up nightmare in Perry. Unfortunately injuries limited what he could do.

2. Simpson over Jackson. I wanted the Bengals to take Jackson but there was a pretty good reason a top 15 talent fell into the middle of the 2nd round. Jackson was known as a prima dona going back to his high school days. He did nothing to dispel that during his time at Cal and had those same character issues entering the draft. Had the Bengals not been going through the same things with Chad that would have been a different story. I remember a lot of complaining about not taking Limas Sweed which really would have been a wash as both have been ineffective in the NFL.

3. Smith was the right pick. The Bengals had issues on the line and Crabtree wouldn't have helped there. Im actually quite happy the Bengals didn't take Crabtree. The jury is still out on Smith but I don't know how you can say that was a bad decision.

3b. The reason Coffmann was ineffective last season had more to do with injuries than any performance related issue. Guy is the all time leading TE in catches in NCAA history. Don't see how you can pass that up in the 3rd round.

Awful negative take of this years draft. I wasn't too happy with the Dunlap pick but I think this draft was very deep in WR. I don't think there would be any complaining about not taking Gilyard if he hadn't played at UC. The more I think about it the more I like the Shipply pick. I wanted the Bengals to take a shot at McCoy in the 3rd round but there are a lot of people who don't think he will make it as an NFL QB. Can't say I don't see the concerns there either.

The Bengals were probably the only team in the NFL that had Perry rated over Jackson. That was another arrogant "we know with OUR eyes" over the rest of the scouting departments in the league.

Jackson not getting picked over Simpson was a no brainer then as it is now. Since when do the Bengals care about taking a character risk in the draft? That wasn't anything to do with character and more to do with finding a X Wr to take over for Chris. It's another in a line of failed Bengal draft choices.

And Coffman was a terrible 3rd round pick. Aaron Hernandez from Florida is the same type of TE and he was a better blocker than Coffman. He went in the 4th round this year.

[WVRed]

The Bengals were probably the only team in the NFL that had Perry rated over Jackson. That was another arrogant "we know with OUR eyes" over the rest of the scouting departments in the league.

Jackson not getting picked over Simpson was a no brainer then as it is now. Since when do the Bengals care about taking a character risk in the draft? That wasn't anything to do with character and more to do with finding a X Wr to take over for Chris. It's another in a line of failed Bengal draft choices.

And Coffman was a terrible 3rd round pick. Aaron Hernandez from Florida is the same type of TE and he was a better blocker than Coffman. He went in the 4th round this year.

Gotta agree with Bucksfan on this one. IIRC, Tennessee had their eyes on Chris Perry that year as well.

Chris Perry was tied for 5th in 2005 among league running backs for receptions with 51. We had Rudi Johnson at the time, so two bruising backs really wouldn't have filled a need. Perry was a change of pace back out of the backfield who was a third down threat with his hands.

I was thinking the pick that year was going to be Chris Gamble. It was the Ohio State homer pick at the time, and at the time I was against it. Looking back on it, I kinda wish they would have taken him there.

[bucksfan2]

The Bengals were probably the only team in the NFL that had Perry rated over Jackson. That was another arrogant "we know with OUR eyes" over the rest of the scouting departments in the league.

Leap of faith here. Each scouting department likes players for different reasons. Perry may have fit into their system better than Jackson. I have no idea why they had Perry ranked higher.



Jackson not getting picked over Simpson was a no brainer then as it is now. Since when do the Bengals care about taking a character risk in the draft? That wasn't anything to do with character and more to do with finding a X Wr to take over for Chris. It's another in a line of failed Bengal draft choices.

There were reasons that teams passed over Jackson. Devin Thomas, Jordy Nelson, Donnie Avery, James Hardy, and Eddie Royal all went in the second round before Jackson went. No Brainer? At the time not so much.



And Coffman was a terrible 3rd round pick. Aaron Hernandez from Florida is the same type of TE and he was a better blocker than Coffman. He went in the 4th round this year.

Couldn't disagree more. Coffman was a receiving TE. Hernandez was more of a system TE. I didn't watch a whole lot of UF football but when I did Hernandez got a ton of yardage coming from the TE screen, a college play. I even remember watching the SEC Championship game in which Alabama said the TE screen was their first focus on stopping UF. You also have to consider the depth in draft. Coffman was the 4th TE off the board and went 3 picks before the start of the 4th round. Hernandez was the TE selected in a much deeper TE class. I have no issues with the Coffman selection. Didn't at the time and still don't.

[Benihana]

Agree with Cedric here.

First off, in case you didn't notice from my signature, I went to Michigan and watched every single game of Chris Perry's career. I am by no means an NFL scout, and I was absolutely positive that Perry over Stephen Jackson was a bad call. Chris Perry was not a first round talent, period. It pains me to admit it, but Michigan RBs should never go in the first round- history is a clear indicator of that.

Second, Jerome Simpson was a joke of a pick. I would have been fine with any of the other WRs in that draft, including Thomas, Hardy, Nelson, and even Sweed. At least there was some justification there. No one outside of 1 Paul Brown Stadium had Simpson graded better than a 5th pick, there was simply no excuse for that.

Finally, I've spoken my piece on Coffman several times. If you are a third round pick, especially if you are the NCAA career leader in receptions, you better damn well be able to get on the field if every other player at your position goes out for the year before the season even starts. Coffman is simply too dumb to learn the plays, or too ineffective, or both. The fact that you HAVE to draft a TE in the first round, one year after drafting this guy in the 3rd should tell you something. The guy is an absolute bust. Horrible, horrible pick.

In terms of this year's draft, I am actually pretty bullish. I was pleased with Gresham and Shipley, would have liked to see D.Bryant, Tate, and/or McCoy, but clearly you can't win them all. I like Dunlap's talent but I am VERY concerned about his issues. It does kind of suck that they got no safety or interior o-line help. Still, I would grade this draft out as a B/B+ at this point in time.

[bucksfan2]

Finally, I've spoken my piece on Coffman several times. If you are a third round pick, especially if you are the NCAA career leader in receptions, you better damn well be able to get on the field if every other player at your position goes out for the year before the season even starts. Coffman is simply too dumb to learn the plays, or too ineffective, or both. The fact that you HAVE to draft a TE in the first round, one year after drafting this guy in the 3rd should tell you something. The guy is an absolute bust. Horrible, horrible pick.

Except for the fact that the Bengals admitted he was never 100% during the season. He had a foot injury when he was drafted and it was that same foot injury that caused him to go on IR during the season.

[Sea Ray]

I think the main issue with DeSean Jackson was his size, not his character. It has been proven now that the Bengals were wrong to pass on him as were a lot of teams

[WMR]

Thinking about DeSean in Cincinnati makes my heart ache. Man that would've been sweet.

[Benihana]

Except for the fact that the Bengals admitted he was never 100% during the season. He had a foot injury when he was drafted and it was that same foot injury that caused him to go on IR during the season.

Well if the injury was the only thing holding him back, and the Bengals still had confidence in him, why would they take a TE in the 1st round for the first time in team history??

[CTA513]

Well if the injury was the only thing holding him back, and the Bengals still had confidence in him, why would they take a TE in the 1st round for the first time in team history??

Heres what the Bengals TEs look like without Gresham:

Coffman - pass catcher who needs to improve his blocking
Coats - blocking has improved but he has bricks for hands
Hill - was only on the team due to injuries

[Sea Ray]

Heres what the Bengals TEs look like without Gresham:

Coffman - pass catcher who needs to improve his blocking
Coats - blocking has improved but he has bricks for hands
Hill - was only on the team due to injuries

In other words there were no NFL caliber TEs on the roster. The need was so huge they had to take Gresham.

[WVRed]

Faneca to the Cardinals:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5140938

Not really a surprise, given the coaching staff.

[MrMcConnell]

Strong work by Mario-Rijo in this thread. Really enjoyed reading your posts and agree with a lot of what you said.

I agree with him about Gresham. I'm not that big of a fan with the pick. I think he'll be "OK" but won't really live up to his overall value. I thought Bryant's value would've been better. Not to mention, this draft was full of TE's. He'll help out in the redzone, but I don't see him as being THAT good. He'll be "OK," but Bryant's value seemed much better to me.

Dunlap: Feast or famine. I hate taking guys who have a reputation to "take plays off" not named Randy Moss. I'm worried about him. He'll have a good first year, but I always wonder about what happens once he gets comfortable in the NFL.

Shipley: Didn't Palmer say he hated smaller receivers? Otherwise, good pick. This team will need someone like him if he stays healthy.

[Mario-Rijo]

One of them was on a kickoff (the Oakland game). I'm not trying to make it sound as if I hate Caldwell - I just think what he gives them is fairly easy to replace.

Way late responding Boss but I'd say you may be right but I just don't believe we have enough info to make that assessment yet. His talent level I think is much greater than what we saw. Just too soon to judge for me.

[Mario-Rijo]

Strong work by Mario-Rijo in this thread. Really enjoyed reading your posts and agree with a lot of what you said.

I agree with him about Gresham. I'm not that big of a fan with the pick. I think he'll be "OK" but won't really live up to his overall value. I thought Bryant's value would've been better. Not to mention, this draft was full of TE's. He'll help out in the redzone, but I don't see him as being THAT good. He'll be "OK," but Bryant's value seemed much better to me.

Dunlap: Feast or famine. I hate taking guys who have a reputation to "take plays off" not named Randy Moss. I'm worried about him. He'll have a good first year, but I always wonder about what happens once he gets comfortable in the NFL.

Shipley: Didn't Palmer say he hated smaller receivers? Otherwise, good pick. This team will need someone like him if he stays healthy.

Appreciate it though I think Kudos should go to some others instead (Redhook & Korymac off the top of my head) with regards to Gresham. I have changed my tune on him a bit as I didn't know he had done quite a bit of in line blocking, along with scouting reports that say he isn't a negative there and therefore he's a much sounder blocker than I was giving him credit for. Plus I really like his work ethic, I am a sucker for guys who take full advantage of their talent and he appears to be the type. His knees are the only thing I worry about but if the Bengals are satisified I guess i gotta give them the benefit of the doubt afterall no one is without risk.

[Oxilon]

Shipley: Didn't Palmer say he hated smaller receivers? Otherwise, good pick. This team will need someone like him if he stays healthy.

Carson doesn't like small receivers? Based off of last season, I thought Carson didn't like any receivers.

Seriously though, does anybody else think this is a make or break season for Carson? Last year, he didn't have weapons....fine. But this year, he has the weapons to compete. And given his enormous contract...I'd surely hope he lives up to atleast most of it.

[Cedric]

Carson doesn't like small receivers? Based off of last season, I thought Carson didn't like any receivers.

Seriously though, does anybody else think this is a make or break season for Carson? Last year, he didn't have weapons....fine. But this year, he has the weapons to compete. And given his enormous contract...I'd surely hope he lives up to atleast most of it.

Weapons wasn't exactly the only problem last year. Predictable play calling and a terrible pass protecting Oline didn't help. Carson wasn't perfect but he didn't get much help last year, IMO.

[Yachtzee]

Weapons wasn't exactly the only problem last year. Predictable play calling and a terrible pass protecting Oline didn't help. Carson wasn't perfect but he didn't get much help last year, IMO.

If Palmer had had better protection, I think we might have seen better results. As it was, with poor protection and coming off injuries, Palmer seemed to rush his throws a bit. When you have that going on, you need receivers who can hold on to the ball when thrown to them or who can reach out and grab it if the throw's a little off. The Bengals did not have those type of receivers. While there has been a lot of lamenting about the lack of a burner since the loss of Chris Henry, I think if the Bengals can get one or two guys who can go over the middle and catch anything thrown to them, we'll see a lot better results. Palmer needs someone he can trust to hit on a quick route when protection breaks down.

[Redhook]

His knees are the only thing I worry about but if the Bengals are satisified I guess i gotta give them the benefit of the doubt afterall no one is without risk.

You just have to hope he got his injury out of the way early. Just about every NFL player is going to get hurt. Some minor, some major, and some career-ending. It's just a brutal game. I hope for the Bengals sake that Gresham had his major injury a year+ ago and will only have minor injuries for his career here.

Injury talk aside, I really like the kid. I like his attitude and I definitely like what he brings to the table on the field. Barring a holdout (which is likely with the Brown family), he'll be a major contributor this year. Carson has to feel giddy after adding Gresham, Bryant, and Shipley. Weapons galore!

[bucksfan2]

Carson doesn't like small receivers? Based off of last season, I thought Carson didn't like any receivers.

Seriously though, does anybody else think this is a make or break season for Carson? Last year, he didn't have weapons....fine. But this year, he has the weapons to compete. And given his enormous contract...I'd surely hope he lives up to atleast most of it.

Coles made an excuse that Carson didn't like small receivers which is where this came from.

I do think Carson had a bad season last year, especially if the franchise is making him their "franchise". It may have been lackluster play calling but he locked on to Chad way to much last season. I do think some of it has to do with not being on the same page with Coles and Caldwell being up and down but that really shouldn't be an excuse for a guy of Carson's talent. I also thought that it was stupid to to hold him out of the preseason because of his ankle when he needed to shake off the rust.

[Hoosier Red]

Dunlap: Feast or famine. I hate taking guys who have a reputation to "take plays off" not named Randy Moss. I'm worried about him. He'll have a good first year, but I always wonder about what happens once he gets comfortable in the NFL.



I love guys with a reputation of "taking plays off" going to Mike Zimmer. Rey had that reputation before he came to the Bengals, so did Michael Johnson.

Even guys like Roy Williams and Tank Johnson had reputations as underacheivers.

Those are the guys that hopefully Zimmer can reach.

[Hoosier Red]

Coles made an excuse that Carson didn't like small receivers which is where this came from.

I do think Carson had a bad season last year, especially if the franchise is making him their "franchise". It may have been lackluster play calling but he locked on to Chad way to much last season. I do think some of it has to do with not being on the same page with Coles and Caldwell being up and down but that really shouldn't be an excuse for a guy of Carson's talent. I also thought that it was stupid to to hold him out of the preseason because of his ankle when he needed to shake off the rust.

To be fair, there weren't a lot of other options. If you have three-four guys going out on a given route, and the TE(Coats) has shown you can't trust him to catch the ball, one WR(Coles) also can't consistently hold on to the ball, and one WR(Caldwell) couldn't seem to get open after week 8, I'd lock onto Chad too.

Notice that in the SD game, Carson did the best job of spreading the wealth around and guys like Cosby and Foschi had good games.

[Cedric]

To be fair, there weren't a lot of other options. If you have three-four guys going out on a given route, and the TE(Coats) has shown you can't trust him to catch the ball, one WR(Coles) also can't consistently hold on to the ball, and one WR(Caldwell) couldn't seem to get open after week 8, I'd lock onto Chad too.

Notice that in the SD game, Carson did the best job of spreading the wealth around and guys like Cosby and Foschi had good games.

Exactly. Being at the games and not watching on TV it was incredibly sad how bad our other WR's were. There literally wasn't any separation from Coles/Caldwell/Te's.

Carson had no options and he knew he had no protection. A very bad mix.

[Benihana]

With our personnel, does anyone else think we should consider playing a 3-4?

Imagine:

Rivers.....Maulauga.....D.Jones.....M.Johnson/B.Johnson/Geathers
........Odom.........Peko.......Dunlap/Fanene/Rucker/Geathers

[WVRed]

With our personnel, does anyone else think we should consider playing a 3-4?

Imagine:

Rivers.....Maulauga.....D.Jones.....M.Johnson/B.Johnson/Geathers
........Odom.........Peko.......Dunlap/Fanene/Rucker/Geathers

I could see it. I've never thought of Peko as a 3-4 nose tackle but he does have the build for it. The only problem I see is in pass rush outside of Rivers. Who would be the other OLB? Geathers really is the only one who strikes me as being capable of doing that but I think there would be better options.

I would like to add another linebacker and move Maualuga to the middle. He could be a Ray Lewis type at MLB.

[Benihana]

I could see it. I've never thought of Peko as a 3-4 nose tackle but he does have the build for it. The only problem I see is in pass rush outside of Rivers. Who would be the other OLB? Geathers really is the only one who strikes me as being capable of doing that but I think there would be better options.

I would like to add another linebacker and move Maualuga to the middle. He could be a Ray Lewis type at MLB.

Michael Johnson is the best pass rushing LB on the team. He could platoon with Geathers on the outside opposite Rivers.

[Kingspoint]

With our personnel, does anyone else think we should consider playing a 3-4?

Imagine:

Rivers.....Maulauga.....D.Jones.....M.Johnson/B.Johnson/Geathers
........Odom.........Peko.......Dunlap/Fanene/Rucker/Geathers

We can't. We don't have the NT.

Zimmer will do it occasionally this year because he does have more flexibility than before, because of what you're saying, but he won't be able to do it as often as he'd like until he gets a true NT. With him only being here 2 years for sure after this one, he may never get that chance as it takes 2-3 years for a NT to learn his position. Mike Brown's not going to go out and get a Shaun Rogers (he tried, but the bottom line is he failed).

[Benihana]

We can't. We don't have the NT.

Zimmer will do it occasionally this year because he does have more flexibility than before, because of what you're saying, but he won't be able to do it as often as he'd like until he gets a true NT. With him only being here 2 years for sure after this one, he may never get that chance as it takes 2-3 years for a NT to learn his position. Mike Brown's not going to go out and get a Shaun Rogers (he tried, but the bottom line is he failed).

Shaun Rogers could be on the chopping block in Cleveland. If he is cut loose, I'd love to get him and give this a try.

[Cedric]

Odom/Rivers/Peko don't fit at all in a 3-4 scheme. Not going to happen.

[WVRed]

We can't. We don't have the NT.

Zimmer will do it occasionally this year because he does have more flexibility than before, because of what you're saying, but he won't be able to do it as often as he'd like until he gets a true NT. With him only being here 2 years for sure after this one, he may never get that chance as it takes 2-3 years for a NT to learn his position. Mike Brown's not going to go out and get a Shaun Rogers (he tried, but the bottom line is he failed).

Just for comparisons sake:

Domata Peko: 6'3 318
Casey Hampton: 6'1 325
Vince Wilfork: 6'2 325
Pat Williams: 6'3 317

[Hoosier Red]

I was thinking on pure passing downs it would make sense to swing Johnson and Dunlap inside. Let them put their hands up and they won't get many sacks but the quarterback won't have any good lanes to throw through either.

[Cedric]

Just for comparisons sake:

Domata Peko: 6'3 318
Casey Hampton: 6'1 325
Vince Wilfork: 6'2 325
Pat Williams: 6'3 317

Has nothing to do with "listed" size. Peko is a penetrating gap DT. He made the league for that reason and he made big money for that reason. Asking him to stop doing that and become a NT is like asking Adam Dunn to stop being so patient at the plate. Takes away the main reason the player is good.

[KoryMac5]

The Bengals kicked the idea of a 3/4 alignment around before Zimmer got here. Once Zimmer arrived on the scene he felt that many of the sets he runs were a 4/3 hybrid that gives you some of the same looks a 3/4 would so ultimately they ended up not going with the 3/4 based on his current scheme.

Zimmer has been toying with the idea of rushing Johnson off the edge as a linebacker.

[Mario-Rijo]

I was thinking on pure passing downs it would make sense to swing Johnson and Dunlap inside. Let them put their hands up and they won't get many sacks but the quarterback won't have any good lanes to throw through either.

I think they plan to use Odom (used him alot last year like this) and Dunlap inside on 3rd down with Johnson/Fanene and Geathers on the outside. Pretty good pass rush there and as you say a tall group.

[Kingspoint]

Just for comparisons sake:

Domata Peko: 6'3 318
Casey Hampton: 6'1 325
Vince Wilfork: 6'2 325
Pat Williams: 6'3 317

Peko is just on the edge of too tall, though maybe not. I wonder where his center of gravity is at?

[bucksfan2]

I had always thought that Gathers would make a better OLB. But a couple of years ago when the Bengals lost a bunch of their LB's they were forced to move Gathers to OLB. It didn't work out so much. Too often people think just because someone has good size/speed they can play OLB. But the reality it isn't as easy as it seems.

[WVRed]

Peko is just on the edge of too tall, though maybe not. I wonder where his center of gravity is at?

I don't think there is a "too tall" for nose tackles. Ted Washington was 6'5 350 pounds was considered the standard for 3-4 nose tackles. Mount Cody is every bit as tall, although far less proven.

Peko compared more with Pat Williams, who was almost exclusively used in 4-3 sets and was a penetrating gap DT, as Cedric pointed out. Would be nice if he had the same type of career though.

[KoryMac5]

Bengals worked out PacMan again today. It is his second workout for the team. Hopefully Marvin stays very far away.

[CTA513]

Bengals practice squad WR Maurice Purify was arrested for disorderly conduct:
http://www.local12.com/content/local_sports/story/Bengals-Maurice-Purify-Arrested-Overnight/ZzWQRYvkTkOQnZ9_bqbxGw.cspx

[Reds Fanatic]

Bengals have re-signed TE Reggie Kelly

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-re-sign-Kelly-sign-CB-Sears/88866ee9-1225-4d31-9183-9751fa42e031

[KoryMac5]

Have heard rumors stating that the Bengals are linked to Jamarcus Russell as well. Ocho stated in a twitter he would see him at mini camp. I thought our O line was already set for the year.

[Redsfaithful]

Good move for the clubhouse, and for blocking. I think he helped with the passing game more than most realized after seeing the results from last year in his absence.

[Kingspoint]

I'm guessing the signing of Kelly is the final piece for the 2010 season, unless of course some "major" injury happens before the season starts. But, as proved when our Tight Ends went down last year, we'll probably "go to war with what we have".

[Degenerate39]

I'd like to see the Bengals get Russell. What would it really hurt? How many times would he even have to touch the ball? I think he'd be a solid back-up player.

[TC81190]

I'd like to see the Bengals get Russell. What would it really hurt? How many times would he even have to touch the ball? I think he'd be a solid back-up player.
Couldn't be worse than Ryan Fitzpatrick. The guy obviously has at least a little bit of football talent. He's just huge.

[CTA513]

I'd like to see the Bengals get Russell. What would it really hurt? How many times would he even have to touch the ball? I think he'd be a solid back-up player.

I would be willing to give him a shot if he was willing to lose weight.

[Yachtzee]

I would be willing to give him a shot if he was willing to lose weight.

I heard rumors he's over 300 lbs. now. If that's the case, I hope they're working him out at OL.

[GIDP]

Id sign him for league minimum. Id take guys that are some what talented every day of the week for league minimum.

[Degenerate39]

I heard rumors he's over 300 lbs. now. If that's the case, I hope they're working him out at OL.

What about a Fullback? :p:

[Newport Red]

he didn't know the playbook as a starter. I doubt he'll know it any better as a back up.

[Slyder]

You want NOTHING to do with that worthless moron JamBurgular Russell. He got paid and gave up on everything. He was more worried about his furs, food, and bling than doing anything to really trying to be an NFL qb. He is dumb as a load of bricks, not a type of guy you want to be holding the clipboard. Youd be better off going after Andrew Walter he could at least hold a clipboard and know the playbook if things go to heck.

Take away Russell's bionic arm and he wouldnt have gotten a second glance by the NFL. Sadly Al Davis fell in love with him (I would have taken Peterson or Johnson IMO said it all along that Russell was over rated for thrashing an overrated Notre Dame). Russell's head makes Jeff George and Todd Mariju.. I mean Marinovich look like Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.

After Gradkowski got hurt in the Washington game, we went with Charlie Frye as a starter before we went back to Russell. In the Washington game the O-Line gave up on it. Russell got sacked 7 times those two facts told me all I needed to know about what the team thought of Russell. He was not a good teammate, He was not a good student, He had no heart, he had no desire to be an NFL QB.

[KoryMac5]

Wide receiver is shaping up to be one heck of a battle this season. From the small glimpse folks got out at camp Matt Jones is flashing some big time skills. Bryant has been playing both the slot and outside, and Jerome Simpson appears to have actually found his way to the practice field. It is going to be a tough decision for the coaching staff on who stays and who goes.

[texasdave]

Peter King thinks very highly of the 2010 Bengals. Not really. He ranks them 23rd. One notch above the Detroit Lions. I do worry about Carson Palmer though. And think the Bengals should have grabbed Colt McCoy in the third round.


23. Cincinnati. I love Carson Palmer. I worry about Carson Palmer. And I bet if you ask every Bengals fan out there, they'd say the exact same thing.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/05/16/ranking/2.html#ixzz0oCw3bLVM

[Reds]

TE has been a position of concern, hopefully it will open the field up for Palmer this year.

[cincrazy]

Peter King thinks very highly of the 2010 Bengals. Not really. He ranks them 23rd. One notch above the Detroit Lions. I do worry about Carson Palmer though. And think the Bengals should have grabbed Colt McCoy in the third round.




http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/05/16/ranking/2.html#ixzz0oCw3bLVM

Luckily for us, Peter King had the Saints ranked 24th last year in these same rankings, and he had the Bears winning the Super Bowl. So I'm not exactly sweating over his preseason rankings.

[RichRed]

Luckily for us, Peter King had the Saints ranked 24th last year in these same rankings, and he had the Bears winning the Super Bowl. So I'm not exactly sweating over his preseason rankings.

Yeah, I'd consider it a good sign if Peter King doesn't like your team. He also picked Jake Plummer to be MVP the year he went to the Broncos.

[GIDP]

Bengals suck when they win, they suck when they lose. Is this news to anyone?

[Kingspoint]

Yeah, I'd consider it a good sign if Peter King doesn't like your team. He also picked Jake Plummer to be MVP the year he went to the Broncos.

Hear! Hear!

[HeatherC1212]

I'm shocked this news wasn't posted yet here but maybe it just broke way too early this morning. ;) Anyway, it was just posted by Joe Reedy at the Enquirer that Mike Zimmer won the Halas Award. I posted a link to the story below and I'm so glad he was recognized for the strength he showed in what had to be one of the most trying years of his life. Congrats Zim! :)

Story: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/06/08/zimmer-receives-halas-award/


Said Zimmer about the award: “Anytime your name is mentioned with George Halas, and all the other people who have won this award in the past, it’s a terrific honor. It’s a credit to our players and coaches, (head coach) Marvin (Lewis), and my kids. They helped me hang in through the adversity. If I hadn’t had them, it would have been harder to continue on. Our veteran core group of players really helped me in a number of ways. They were a strength for me.”

[Kingspoint]

Thanks, Heather.

Way to go, Zim!

[KoryMac5]

For those that didn't know the Shayne Graham era in Bengals Land has ended. Graham signed with Baltimore a few days ago.

[SeeinRed]

For those that didn't know the Shayne Graham era in Bengals Land has ended. Graham signed with Baltimore a few days ago.


I really wish things had gone differently for Shayne at the end of his time here because he deserved better, but ineffectiveness gets you out of there quicker in the NFL than anywhere else. Shayne was an extremely nice guy who had a huge impact on this area off the field. Cincinnati will miss his contribution in the community.

That being said, you can't keep a guy around because he is a nice guy. Good luck to you Mr. Graham

[forfreelin04]

I keep hearing about Chad missing offseason workouts and Carson being upset.... blah...blah....blah

Carson has got a pass in this city throughout his whole career. Mostly because he's been more than productive but also because there hasn't been a solid QB in Cincy since Boomer.

That being said, I wish Carson would shut it about Chad not being around. For it was he who layed an egg in the playoff game. You could make the same argument for Chad but Revis shuts down everyone.

As fans, we're giving him a pass by blaming the passing woes on Brat or the receivers, but it was Carson who needed to deliver in that game and he didn't.

[Hoosier Red]

I keep hearing about Chad missing offseason workouts and Carson being upset.... blah...blah....blah

Carson has got a pass in this city throughout his whole career. Mostly because he's been more than productive but also because there hasn't been a solid QB in Cincy since Boomer.

That being said, I wish Carson would shut it about Chad not being around. For it was he who layed an egg in the playoff game. You could make the same argument for Chad but Revis shuts down everyone.

As fans, we're giving him a pass by blaming the passing woes on Brat or the receivers, but it was Carson who needed to deliver in that game and he didn't.

I think people get too wrapped up in "who's right and who's wrong" on things like this. Of course you'd want your best WR to be in voluntary practices, but everyone in the building knew Chad wasn't going to be there, and in the end, it's not a big deal.
However, everyone in the building also knew that the first question to Carson Palmer was going to be, "How do you feel about Chad not being here," and Carson can answer two ways, 1) "I don't care, Chad's a great player, he knows when he has to show up," or 2) "I don't like it, Chad not being here hurts the offense, and we really have to put in the work this offseason."

100 times out of 100 a good leader takes option #2 because if he answers #1 it sends the message that these OTA's aren't that important to him so the other 80 guys there busting their humps shouldn't really worry about it either.

By taking door #2 he probably ticked off Chad(that'll take all of about 5 seconds to get over) and he sends the message that the practices are important and its critical to get everyone on the same page. Oh and it's also true, no matter who was at fault last year, the team is better off with everyone coming to camp. Chad is just a good enough athlete to make sure that the difference is minimal.

[Hoosier Red]

As for the second point you make about Carson having a bad season last year and laying an egg in the playoff game, I agree with you. All the weapons aside from Chad are better this year. He really needs to have a good year.

Fans give him a pass because they saw what he was before the knee injury, and they've seen their share of great QB's go down prematurely due to injury,(Greg Cook, Ken Anderson started to slide when the Steelers Linebacker went all exorcist on him if I recall correctly.) So they also see his failures as part of the natural progression. The knee injury is behind him though, now it's all on him.

[CTA513]

I keep hearing about Chad missing offseason workouts and Carson being upset.... blah...blah....blah

Carson has got a pass in this city throughout his whole career. Mostly because he's been more than productive but also because there hasn't been a solid QB in Cincy since Boomer.

That being said, I wish Carson would shut it about Chad not being around. For it was he who layed an egg in the playoff game. You could make the same argument for Chad but Revis shuts down everyone.

As fans, we're giving him a pass by blaming the passing woes on Brat or the receivers, but it was Carson who needed to deliver in that game and he didn't.


Carson probably wouldn't have said anything if Chad was doing something important while not being at OTAs.

[vottofan4life]

Chad needs to be traded immediately and we need to bring another impact receiver in...Someone by the name of Vincent Jackson

[bucksfan2]

Chad needs to be traded immediately and we need to bring another impact receiver in...Someone by the name of Vincent Jackson

Or maybe we can step back and give Chad credit for being one of the most productive Bengals ever.

Look Chad can be a clown, but with the exception of the 08 season that guy has been a top flight WR during his tenure as a Bengal. You really can't say the same thing about any other Bengal during that time period. I only wish Carson would have been as successful as Chad.

[Oxilon]

*Yawn*

Chad misses part of the OTAs...big deal. The media trying to make something out of nothing...some fans follow along. This is the problem when teams only play 16 days a year...the media has to "create stories" for the other 349 days the teams actually aren't playing.

[Redsfan320]

For those that didn't know the Shayne Graham era in Bengals Land has ended. Graham signed with Baltimore a few days ago.

I'd say it was time.

320

[texasdave]

Graham is known for his ability to eat massive quantities of food and was considered to be the undisputed eating champion of the Cincinnati Bengals

I did not know that. The little kicker out-eating those behemoths. And, no, I am not going to add that that is the reason he choked so often.

[GIDP]

For those that didn't know the Shayne Graham era in Bengals Land has ended. Graham signed with Baltimore a few days ago.

Good now might stop playing for the FG like they have the last 3 years.

[Kingspoint]

The Bengals are going to have an awesome Receiving Corps this year.

I truly expect them to get back into Top-15 Offensive status (instead of bottom-5).

[Eric_the_Red]

TO expected to sign with either the Rams or Bengals soon. Apparently the Rams are offering more money (there's a shock) but the Bengals may give TO a better shot at winning.

Personally, I want no part of him. All of the antics of Chad, but 65% of the production. No thanks.

[Reds Freak]

Personally, I want no part of him. All of the antics of Chad, but 65% of the production. No thanks.

I'd take him in a heartbeat. I'm not a TO fan by any stretch of the imagination, but the Bengals are already circus anyway, why not go ahead and add another tent in the mix?

Look at his stats. Three of his last four seasons have been 1,000+ yard, double-digit TD seasons. He nearly reached those numbers last year with Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him. He's a clown but can you imagine the space he would free up for Chad on the outside and Gresham up the middle? Good golly...

[bucksfan2]

I'd take him in a heartbeat. I'm not a TO fan by any stretch of the imagination, but the Bengals are already circus anyway, why not go ahead and add another tent in the mix?

Look at his stats. Three of his last four seasons have been 1,000+ yard, double-digit TD seasons. He nearly reached those numbers last year with Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him. He's a clown but can you imagine the space he would free up for Chad on the outside and Gresham up the middle? Good golly...

Here is the thing as a 2 or 3 WR he is better than Caldwell and Shipply is just a rookie. TO is no longer a true #1 WR, but he isn't being counted on to be the go to guy. He adds another weapon to the offense and makes the offense much better. I am all for the Bengals signing TO.

[CTA513]

Chad is the #1 WR
Bryant was signed to be the #2 WR
Gresham was drafted to be the #1 TE
TO could be signed to be the #3 WR
Benson and Scott showed what the running game could be like last season


It has the potential to be good on the field, but I also see the potential for things to get ugly on the sidelines once these guys realize they won't be getting the ball as much as they want.

[LoganBuck]

I'd take him in a heartbeat. I'm not a TO fan by any stretch of the imagination, but the Bengals are already circus anyway, why not go ahead and add another tent in the mix?

Look at his stats. Three of his last four seasons have been 1,000+ yard, double-digit TD seasons. He nearly reached those numbers last year with Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him. He's a clown but can you imagine the space he would free up for Chad on the outside and Gresham up the middle? Good golly...

I like it just from the matchup headache he would create. Look at this mess on paper

OchoCinco
TO
Bryant
Gresham
Shipley, Caldwell, Coffman in reserve

TO may not be what he once was, but he will still abuse lesser corners. He requires attention. Chad does as well. It would mean lots of two deep zone, and one on one coverage. Jermaine Gresham and Jordan Shipley make this even more scary. Can you imagine the room to operate in the middle of the field?

[Cedric]

I like it just from the matchup headache he would create. Look at this mess on paper

OchoCinco
TO
Bryant
Gresham
Shipley, Caldwell, Coffman in reserve

TO may not be what he once was, but he will still abuse lesser corners. He requires attention. Chad does as well. It would mean lots of two deep zone, and one on one coverage. Jermaine Gresham and Jordan Shipley make this even more scary. Can you imagine the room to operate in the middle of the field?

All that means nothing if the Oline doesn't improve ten fold.

[joshnky]

The only problem I have with it, is that you're going to have to cut another young receiver (likely Briscoe) to make room. Chad and TO are on the down slope of their careers and Bryant will be 30 soon. The average age of your top three receivers will be 32, not good. The cupboard could be bare in one or two years, and injuries could quickly derail this year.

This will also have a negative impact on special teams and the return game, as you'll have to cut a likely special teams contributor.

[Eric_the_Red]

I like it just from the matchup headache he would create. Look at this mess on paper

OchoCinco
TO
Bryant
Gresham
Shipley, Caldwell, Coffman in reserve



But they still only use 1 football when playing. I wonder how quickly the Ochocinco/TO/Palmer lovefest would last when both WRs demand the ball more.

TO is 36, turning 37 this season. His catches have gone down every season in each of the last 4 years. Besides that, you may recall a few locker rooms that he has left burning behind him.

No mo' drama.

[Eric_the_Red]

I'd take him in a heartbeat. I'm not a TO fan by any stretch of the imagination, but the Bengals are already circus anyway, why not go ahead and add another tent in the mix?

Look at his stats. Three of his last four seasons have been 1,000+ yard, double-digit TD seasons. He nearly reached those numbers last year with Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him. He's a clown but can you imagine the space he would free up for Chad on the outside and Gresham up the middle? Good golly...

There have been only 3 WR that have had 1,000 yd receiving at age 36 or older, and only Jerry Rice did it after age 37. Never has there been a WR catch 10 or more TD after turning 36.

That is why you don't invite more clowns to circus, especially unproductive clowns.

[Redsfaithful]

I can't wait for football. I think TO picks Cincinnati, it's a bigger chance to further increase his profile. The Rams are going to be terrible again.

TO was completely drama free in Buffalo of all places last season, I'm not sure why people think he'd cause problems in Cincinnati. I don't think Marvin or Mike Brown for that matter would bring him in unless he fully understood and was ok with his role. TO knows he's not going to be a #1 in Cincinnati.

[WVRed]

I can't wait for football. I think TO picks Cincinnati, it's a bigger chance to further increase his profile. The Rams are going to be terrible again.

TO was completely drama free in Buffalo of all places last season, I'm not sure why people think he'd cause problems in Cincinnati. I don't think Marvin or Mike Brown for that matter would bring him in unless he fully understood and was ok with his role. TO knows he's not going to be a #1 in Cincinnati.

Could you imagine the Rams bringing in TO with Sam Bradford throwing to him? With all the problems he had with Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, and Tony Romo, I'm surprised the Rams are even looking at him, regardless of what he did in Buffalo.

Cincinnati OTOH gives him a loaded offense with the potential if he accepts his role to possibly make a Super Bowl run, assuming the Bengals pass through their gauntlet of a schedule.

[Eric_the_Red]

I'm not seeing this "loaded offense" that everyone else sees this year. Why would it be very different from last year? A rookie WR and rookie TE are added, and a subpar WR was replaced by either a WR with a bad knee or a 37 year old, and suddenly the Bengals have an explosive offense? If the team goes anywhere this year, it will be on the back of the defense.

[Redsfaithful]

You're kind of underplaying the TE they added. That's one of the rare positions where someone can come in and make a difference as a rookie.

People are seeing a much improved offense because they filled the holes they had last year.

[Kingspoint]

I would take T.O. for this season over Caldwell.

[cincrazy]

There have been only 3 WR that have had 1,000 yd receiving at age 36 or older, and only Jerry Rice did it after age 37. Never has there been a WR catch 10 or more TD after turning 36.

That is why you don't invite more clowns to circus, especially unproductive clowns.

I agree with most of what you say, however, I will add that T.O., out of any receiver, could be one to produce past the age of 36.

Jerry Rice thrived at an older age because of his peak physical condition. And say what you want about T.O., but the man couldn't be in any better shape.

Last season, all things considered, he didn't have a terrible year. He was in Buffalo, with Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing him the ball. We saw what happened to Chad under the same scenario. He had one of the worst seasons of his career.

T.O. himself doesn't make this team a Super Bowl team, and for that reason, I don't sign him. The risk outweighs the reward IMO. However, if there's anywhere where T.O MIGHT be a good fit, I'd say it's Cincy.

[Eric_the_Red]

You're kind of underplaying the TE they added. That's one of the rare positions where someone can come in and make a difference as a rookie.

People are seeing a much improved offense because they filled the holes they had last year.

So the team was a rookie TE away from being an offensive powerhouse? Sorry, but I don't see it. Could the team improve a bit offensively? Sure. But I think any improvement will begin and end with the guy under center, regardless of who the WRs are.

[SeeinRed]

The main difference I see on the team this year is Coles as your #2 going into last season compared to Bryant or possibly Owens as your #2 this year. Thats a pretty big difference IMO. It was a huge drop off from Chad to the next reciever. Teams were able to focus on Chad and stop the passing game. IF Bryant is healthy and/or the Bengals have T.O. then some of that focus has to be taken off Chad. They may not be what they once were, but they still have to be defended. The TE also plays a HUGE role in the offense. Bengals TEs were pretty bad last year, in the passing game. Gresham is only a rookie, but he is a definate weapon that can cause match-up headaches. Also having Kelly on the sideline and even on the field is a huge upgrade. Coffman is just icing on the cake if he can be healthy and contribute on the field.

The offense isn't going to be a world burner, but it is good enough to win a lot of games with the defense the Bengals figure to have. All of this depends on health of course, but the Bengals had a good season last year. They went into the off season with definate weaknesses that were addressed. You would be very hard pressed to say the Bengals aren't entering training camp in much better shape that they were in last year. They had a very solid draft IMO. For the first time in a long time it feels as though the Bengals are a competent organization.

Signing T.O. would seem on the surface as a PR nightmare, but digging a little deeper I feel as though it can turn out to be a very strong football move. Its all just conjecture right now though as none of us can see into the future.

[texasdave]

Bengals owner Mike Brown is trying to produce his own reality show.

Terrell Owens. Chad Ochocinco. Together in Cincinnati.

Brown said on Monday that the team has discussed a contract with Owens and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus. The Bengals passed on the chance to sign the 36-year-old receiver after a tryout in March, but have given it more thought now that he remains a free agent.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/07/26/bengals.owens.ap/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0uq6IHU7U

[Hoosier Red]

So the team was a rookie TE away from being an offensive powerhouse? Sorry, but I don't see it. Could the team improve a bit offensively? Sure. But I think any improvement will begin and end with the guy under center, regardless of who the WRs are.

A competent TE who can be a threat in the running and passing game, a competent 2nd WR, and a third deep threat. THey've at the very least addressed two of those gaps.

[Eric_the_Red]

A competent TE who can be a threat in the running and passing game, a competent 2nd WR, and a third deep threat. THey've at the very least addressed two of those gaps.

A third deep threat? Who are the first two?

Could TO be a competent 2nd WR? Sure, but at his age I'm not expecting much. (Or at least not enough to offset the distractions he brings. Talk to a Niners/Eagles/Cowboys fan.) And if Bryant were healthy I'm not sure they'd be pursuing TO, so I am worried about Bryant as a #2.

[Roy Tucker]

Rumors are floating that Antonio Bryant's knee isn't great.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38391099/ns/sports-player_news/

[KoryMac5]

I want T.O signed so I can be there to witness him and Brat get into it multiple times this season. I so badly want Brat out of here :devil:

[joshnky]

Rumors are floating that Antonio Bryant's knee isn't great.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38391099/ns/sports-player_news/

If so, this move makes a lot more sense.

[Reds Fanatic]

The Jets are also now interested in Owens but the Bengals are still the favorites to get Owens:

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5412850


The Cincinnati Bengals remain the favorite to sign Owens. The Bengals are offering an incentive-laden contract and they have told Owens he has until Wednesday to agree to a deal.

[Hoosier Red]

A third deep threat? Who are the first two?

Could TO be a competent 2nd WR? Sure, but at his age I'm not expecting much. (Or at least not enough to offset the distractions he brings. Talk to a Niners/Eagles/Cowboys fan.) And if Bryant were healthy I'm not sure they'd be pursuing TO, so I am worried about Bryant as a #2.

Chad, TO, Shipley are all legitimate deep threats. I certainly have doubts about Simpson, but IF he makes the team it will be because of his ability to beat one on one coverage deep.(He hasn't shown that yet admittedly.)

Last year, there was Chad. Coles was not a threat anywhere on the field so he never drew a safety away. Caldwell couldn't get open because he's not a deep threat and the safety was able to stay in coverage of him(as opposed to a linebacker).

The other problem was that because the only TE who could block couldn't catch anything, it really limited whatever creativity Bratkowski had. I also think the inability of Coates and Foschi to be dual threats prevented Coffman from playing. (ie if Kelly had been there, they could have used Coffman as a split out/slot position. Without Kelly, the Bengals needed their two TE's to be more blockers than anything.)

[Eric_the_Red]

I don't think a rookie WR can be counted on to be anything, let alone a deep threat. Besides, I think the Bengals will use him in more of a slot role in the middle of the field.

And with TO's age (and soon Chad's age) I wonder how long he can be counted on as a deep threat.

[Redsfaithful]

Considering the TE position actively harmed the Bengals offense (as opposed to simply not being a plus) yeah I think having Kelly back and drafting Gresham is pretty huge. Coats was one of the worst players in all of football last year according to Football Outsiders.

I think having Kelly back will also allow the Bengals to run more often with a conventional 5 man o-line, and I also think the depth at WR is much improved, especially if they sign TO.

[Sea Ray]

Considering the TE position actively harmed the Bengals offense (as opposed to simply not being a plus) yeah I think having Kelly back and drafting Gresham is pretty huge. Coats was one of the worst players in all of football last year according to Football Outsiders.

I think having Kelly back will also allow the Bengals to run more often with a conventional 5 man o-line, and I also think the depth at WR is much improved, especially if they sign TO.

They've got a lot to sort out. Good thing they're playing 5 pre season games.

We don't know if Coffman, Kelly and Bryant are healthy. I doubt they'll all be football sound physically. All we can do at this point is provide a lot of options

[CTA513]

PFT is saying the Bengals signed Owens:


T.O. picks the Bengals
Posted by Mike Florio on July 27, 2010 5:33 PM ET


Well, it's happened. Receiver Terrell Owens has agreed to terms with the Bengals.

Per a league source, Owens will receive a base salary of $2 million. He can earn up to another $2 million in incentives.

The source says that the incentives are based on receptions, yards, and touchdowns.

Given that the Bengals didn't really have a need at the position and in light of the franchise's reputation for being extremely careful with money, it's a good deal for Owens. He gets more than twice the veteran minimum for a player of his experience, and though the specific triggers for the $2 million are not yet known, it's our understanding that if he performs like he did last year in Buffalo (55 catches, 829 yards, five touchdowns), he'll earn most of the money.

That said, the decision to tie that much money to performance could create friction, if Owens isn't on the field as much as he believes he needs to be. The Bengals likely know this, and the decision potentially reflects a concession that Antonio Bryant isn't going to be what they thought he was going to be.


Source: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/27/to-picks-the-bengals/

[GIDP]

Heck yea. I dont care what anyone says about TO he produces on the field, and if he knows his role, which I'm sure he does especially with Palmer and Chad being around I thought he was a good fit then, and hes an even better fit now.

[The Voice of IH]

Oh yea baby, Now that Palmer has people to throw to....OchoCinco, Bryant, Shipley, Gresham and Owens.....This offense has power.

[GIDP]

I would not want to be a defense lining up against Cedric Benson 1 play then the next have to deal with Chad, Gresham, and Owens the next. Bryant being healthy is just an added bonus. It might not make everyone happy but if they all are healthy and all play selfless I flat out love it.

Bengals have a way of making players happy as of late. I expect Owens to be no different.

[texasdave]

And what happens when T.O. feels he isn't getting enough passes thrown his way for him to meet his incentives? That could get dicey. I am not suggesting he isn't talented. But other factors might come in to play here.


The source says that the incentives are based on receptions, yards, and touchdowns.

[GIDP]

The fact that hes signing for 2 million, up to 4, after making 6 something last year makes me kind of think its not totally about the cash anymore. It obviously is to an extent but he probably knows this is one of his last shots. He was humble in buffalo with zero QB, and really didnt say much while in Dallas while he was there.

[1990REDS]

The fact that hes signing for 2 million, up to 4, after making 6 something last year makes me kind of think its not totally about the cash anymore. It obviously is to an extent but he probably knows this is one of his last shots. He was humble in buffalo with zero QB, and really didnt say much while in Dallas while he was there.

i agree, i think TO will be dangerous this year, hes still a good deep threat and i think he will play with a "super bowl or bust" attitude this year.

[membengal]

All I know is Mike Brown, for better or worse, has gone "all in" for the first time in my lifetime. And I am 40 this December.

Why not?

[Mario-Rijo]

Get your...

http://www.fmtroop108.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/popcorn.gif

[GIDP]

All I know is Mike Brown, for better or worse, has gone "all in" for the first time in my lifetime. And I am 40 this December.

Why not?

Basically. Maybe the old guy has finally saw the light. Hes shown signs of improving over the years.

[Reds]

I like the move. I think he fits in with the team, the cost is reasonable, and it shows good initiative by the owner to at least appear like he wants to win.

[Kingspoint]

I'm really impressed that Mike Brown was proactive here.

We have a difficult opening three weeks (Pats, Jets, and @ Panthers (where Jonathan Stewart is 100% and Matt Moore was exceptional for them last season).

We couldn't afford to go 0-3 to start the season, which is very possible. The Bengals are considered by most to NOT BE one of the 6 best teams in the AFC. Maybe there are legitimate reasons for that.

If we just waited for:

1. Antonio Bryant to get in shape
2. Andre Smith to learn the system
3. Jordan Shipley to learn the system
4. Jermaine Gresham to sign AND learn the system
5. Andre Caldwell to show that he can catch a pass more than 8 yards out
6. Jerome Simpson to show us anything at all
7. Chad Johnson to get focused (after all of his off-season distractions)

....then we could easily find ourselves scrambling to go 10-3 over the last 13 weeks of the season just to "hope" to make the playoffs at 10-6. The season could have been over before people had time to get comfortable in their season ticket seats.

Now, we've got a legitimate chance to come out of the first 3 weeks at 2-1 (which would be a tremendous success, as it would mean we'd have a tie-breaker over either the Jets or the Patriots, or both if we can beat both of them). If we lose both games to the Pats and the Jets, then it could be that even at 10-6, we lose a tie-breaker, as one of those two teams will win their division while the other makes the playoffs.

This is a great, great, great signing for the Bengals.

Caution: There is only one player who is worse than Owens in the NFL at dropping catchable passes (Braylon Edwards). Nobody else comes close to Owens' repeated lack of concentration on plays. There are going to be more frustrated moments watching Owens play football for Bengals' fans than they've had with any player in a long, long time. Think of Kitna times two. Where this comes into play the most is on 3rd Down. Terrell Owens is the last person in the world you want to throw a pass to on 3rd Down. It's the easiest way to kill a drive, and Carson led the league last year in 3rd-Down completion percentage (and 2nd best the year before, I believe). Carson, on 3rd Down, will throw to the most reliable Receiver. On this team, at this moment, it's Antonio Bryant. Hopefully, it becomes Jermaine Gresham or Jordan Shipley.

That said, Owens is a huge, physical specimen that no Linebacker in the NFL can cover. He'll also catch passes and make plays that will make us go, "Wow!", kind of like Chad Johnson a few years ago, when Chad would catch anything thrown his direction.

It's a great addition to the team. How the heck is an opposing Defense going to defend a 3-Receiver set that has Owens in the slot, Gresham at TE, Chad on the Strong Side and Antonio Bryant going deep on the Weak Side? Nobody has the personnel defensively to cover that. If we can give Carson some time in the pocket, he'll shred defenses apart. Even at his "worst" last year, he was still the #1 QB, percentage-wise, at completing 3rd Down passes.

[texasdave]

The fact that hes signing for 2 million, up to 4, after making 6 something last year makes me kind of think its not totally about the cash anymore. It obviously is to an extent but he probably knows this is one of his last shots. He was humble in buffalo with zero QB, and really didnt say much while in Dallas while he was there.

I didn't follow Owens up in Buffalo, but in Texas all things Cowboy are big news. Here is the recap from his time there. Not a complete trainwreck, but close. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3953647


Werder reported that according to a Cowboys source directly involved in the decision, Jerry Jones was "following the advice of many, many people" in jettisoning Owens.Not only did Owens have relationship issues with quarterback Tony Romo and tight end Jason Witten, but the receiver consistently criticized offensive coordinator Jason Garrett's play calling and his offensive schemes to the point that sources have said Garrett did not believe he and Owens could coexist.

Although the Cowboys were trying to downplay a possible rift between Owens and Witten during the season, the two reportedly came close to blows in mid-December

[KoryMac5]

I didn't follow Owens up in Buffalo, but in Texas all things Cowboy are big news. Here is the recap from his time there. Not a complete trainwreck, but close. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3953647

I live about 1 1/2 hours from Buffalo and T.O. was a model citizen. Buffalo papers tried to bait him early on and Owens didn't take the bait even when things were going bad. He could have lit up Fitzpatrick and Edwards a couple of times last season and didn't.

I like the move, gives us three really good threats for Palmer to throw to. It should be a really interesting locker room. Too bad hard knocks didn't stay a second season.

[Boss-Hog]

Kingspoint, the second game of the season is at home against the Ravens, not the Jets (though I can see how someone would get those two mixed up with all the ex-Ravens the Jets have :)).

[BringDownMugabe]

I live about 1 1/2 hours from Buffalo and T.O. was a model citizen. Buffalo papers tried to bait him early on and Owens didn't take the bait even when things were going bad. He could have lit up Fitzpatrick and Edwards a couple of times last season and didn't.

I like the move, gives us three really good threats for Palmer to throw to. It should be a really interesting locker room. Too bad hard knocks didn't stay a second season.

The Buffalo media tried baiting him? If the Buffalo media is baiting T.O., I can't imagine what the Cincy media will be like.

[GIDP]

The Buffalo media tried baiting him? If the Buffalo media is baiting T.O., I can't imagine what the Cincy media will be like.
Asleep?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I like it.

[texasdave]

I live about 1 1/2 hours from Buffalo and T.O. was a model citizen. Buffalo papers tried to bait him early on and Owens didn't take the bait even when things were going bad. He could have lit up Fitzpatrick and Edwards a couple of times last season and didn't.

I like the move, gives us three really good threats for Palmer to throw to. It should be a really interesting locker room. Too bad hard knocks didn't stay a second season.

I hope it works out. I just won't be surprised if T.O. acts up is all.

[Kingspoint]

Kingspoint, the second game of the season is at home against the Ravens, not the Jets (though I can see how someone would get those two mixed up with all the ex-Ravens the Jets have :)).

No kidding.

When's the Jet's game? Thanksgiving?

[WVRed]

No kidding.

When's the Jet's game? Thanksgiving?

Yep.

[redsfandan]

The distractions are an obvious concern. These seem like legit concerns to me as well:

The only problem I have with it, is that you're going to have to cut another young receiver (likely Briscoe) to make room. Chad and TO are on the down slope of their careers and Bryant will be 30 soon. The average age of your top three receivers will be 32, not good. The cupboard could be bare in one or two years, and injuries could quickly derail this year.

This will also have a negative impact on special teams and the return game, as you'll have to cut a likely special teams contributor.



Caution: There is only one player who is worse than Owens in the NFL at dropping catchable passes (Braylon Edwards). Nobody else comes close to Owens' repeated lack of concentration on plays. There are going to be more frustrated moments watching Owens play football for Bengals' fans than they've had with any player in a long, long time. Think of Kitna times two. Where this comes into play the most is on 3rd Down. Terrell Owens is the last person in the world you want to throw a pass to on 3rd Down. It's the easiest way to kill a drive, and Carson led the league last year in 3rd-Down completion percentage (and 2nd best the year before, I believe). Carson, on 3rd Down, will throw to the most reliable Receiver. On this team, at this moment, it's Antonio Bryant. Hopefully, it becomes Jermaine Gresham or Jordan Shipley.

TO could help and I think there's alot of potential with this team. It's only potential though. I wonder what Marvin thinks about the signing.

[yab1112]

From our old friend Gregg Doyle, a bastion of professionalism and journalistic integrity (link (http://gregg-doyel.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5881996/23465183?tag=coverlist_active;coverlist_footer)):


Terrell Owens. Chad Ochodumbass. Tank Johnson. Pacman Jones. Cedric Benson. Matt Jones. Frostee Rucker.

Hate you. Hate you all. Some are criminals. Some are merely idiots. Some are both.

[bucksfan2]

From our old friend Gregg Doyle, a bastion of professionalism and journalistic integrity

Terrell Owens. Chad Ochodumbass. Tank Johnson. Pacman Jones. Cedric Benson. Matt Jones. Frostee Rucker.

Hate you. Hate you all. Some are criminals. Some are merely idiots. Some are both.

Take a look at other NFL rosters and you will see the same kind malcontents playing throughout the NFL.

[OesterPoster]

Oh well. I hate Gregg Doyel.

So there. Neaner, neaner, neaner.

[joshnky]

The WR situation is now very tight. Geoff Hobson sums it up nicely:


What was once one of the more competitive roster spots in camp is now almost moot. Six make it and we know the five that are going to dress on game day: The Ocho, Owens, Bryant, Bryant, Andre Caldwell and Jordan Shipley. That would seem to leave Simpson and Briscoe battling for the sixth spot that is deactivated unless something crazy happens. What to do with Quan Cosby, a very reliable punt returner?

I like the move for this season but I'm a little concerned about the return game and more concerned about what to do after this aging trio moves on. Although, when you consider that Palmer isn't getting any younger, it might be now or never.

[Sea Ray]

The WR situation is now very tight. Geoff Hobson sums it up nicely:



I like the move for this season but I'm a little concerned about the return game and more concerned about what to do after this aging trio moves on. Although, when you consider that Palmer isn't getting any younger, it might be now or never.

I would say that 7 WRs including Cosby is not out of the question. Roster moves will be very interesting indeed.

[NorrisHopper30]

Gregg Doyel is my least favorite journalist of all time I can't stand the dude.

[joshnky]

I would say that 7 WRs including Cosby is not out of the question. Roster moves will be very interesting indeed.

Makes since, given the age and injury possibility of the top 3. Maybe they go short at TE or RB/FB, given that the back-ups at those positions are hardly irreplaceable?

[CTA513]

I think we can say goodbye to last years offense as this team won't be a run first team with the players they added in the draft and free agency.

Now they just have to make sure that Palmer is protected or these additions won't mean much.

[Redsfaithful]

I didn't follow Owens up in Buffalo, but in Texas all things Cowboy are big news. Here is the recap from his time there. Not a complete trainwreck, but close. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3953647

To be fair Tony Romo has always struck me as a drama queen.

[Hoosier Red]

The WR situation is now very tight. Geoff Hobson sums it up nicely:



I like the move for this season but I'm a little concerned about the return game and more concerned about what to do after this aging trio moves on. Although, when you consider that Palmer isn't getting any younger, it might be now or never.

I think Quan Cosby's probably gone. Caldwell's maybe on the endangered list even more than Briscoe/Simpson.

The Return game will be some combination of PacMan, Shipley, Bernard Scott and some one else who will emerge(could be Caldwell or Cosby admittedly.)

The reason I think Caldwell is in trouble is that Briscoe and Simpson can both(allegedly) be legitimate deep threats. Caldwell's more of a slot guy, and if he doesn't win the kick return job I just see him as replaceable.

[CTA513]

I think Quan Cosby's probably gone. Caldwell's maybe on the endangered list even more than Briscoe/Simpson.

The Return game will be some combination of PacMan, Shipley, Bernard Scott and some one else who will emerge(could be Caldwell or Cosby admittedly.)

The reason I think Caldwell is in trouble is that Briscoe and Simpson can both(allegedly) be legitimate deep threats. Caldwell's more of a slot guy, and if he doesn't win the kick return job I just see him as replaceable.

I would keep Caldwell over Simpson because we already know he can step in and actually play WR in the NFL.

[Mario-Rijo]

I think Quan Cosby's probably gone. Caldwell's maybe on the endangered list even more than Briscoe/Simpson.

The Return game will be some combination of PacMan, Shipley, Bernard Scott and some one else who will emerge(could be Caldwell or Cosby admittedly.)

The reason I think Caldwell is in trouble is that Briscoe and Simpson can both(allegedly) be legitimate deep threats. Caldwell's more of a slot guy, and if he doesn't win the kick return job I just see him as replaceable.

According to his scouting reports and measurables he is actually miscast as a slot guy and is more of a deep threat. He is way more fast than quick, the guy ran a sub 4.4 forty but couldn't use that deep speed to get open underneath. I don't think he has anything to worry about.

Also they may very well carry 7 WR's anyhow because not sure about Bryants health.

[Kingspoint]

The Bengals have already addressed T.O.'s biggest problem (dropping catchable passes) by making him the Wideout and putting Bryant in the slot.

Good decision.

It's also possible that Shipley could beat out Bryant for slot duty, and that Bryant ends up becoming just an occasional deep threat in 3 or 4 WR sets.

[CTA513]

It looks like Gresham is the last draft pick left for the Bengals to sign.

[WMR]

Would the Bengals really get rid of Caldwell?

That would be a mistake, IMO.

Seems like there are several heads who should be on the chopping block before his.

[Cincy10]

This is a DANGEROUS team. Running and passing. You take one of the best rushing teams from last year and then add Bryant and Owens to be more pass oriented....watch out

[TeamSelig]

First Take mentioned how big of an ego Bryant has..(I wasn't aware).. and that there's no way he would give up #81 for TO.

[Mario-Rijo]

The Bengals have already addressed T.O.'s biggest problem (dropping catchable passes) by making him the Wideout and putting Bryant in the slot.

Good decision.

It's also possible that Shipley could beat out Bryant for slot duty, and that Bryant ends up becoming just an occasional deep threat in 3 or 4 WR sets.

If healthy Bryant may very well be the best WR on the team. I think it's a mistake to expect him to be riding the pine.

[Hoosier Red]

Would the Bengals really get rid of Caldwell?

That would be a mistake, IMO.

Seems like there are several heads who should be on the chopping block before his.

JMO of course, but while Caldwell is "better" than a lot of receivers(Simpson in particular), he's less necessary.

In the same way that Yonder Alonso may be better than Zach Cozart, he may also be more easily replaceable.

One thing's for sure, there's going to be some good WR's cut one way or another this August.

[Kingspoint]

If healthy Bryant may very well be the best WR on the team. I think it's a mistake to expect him to be riding the pine.

I agree. But, I don't want Palmer throwing 3rd Down passes to Owens.

If everyone was healthy, I'd run 3 and 4 Wide Receiver sets on 80% of 1st and 2nd Downs. I'd put Bryant and Shipley in the slots on 4-WR sets (no TE), with Owens and/or Bryant going deep; and, on 3-WR sets, I'd have Bryant in the slot (with a TE) w/ Owens and/or Chad going deep.

On 3rd Down and 3-1/2 or more, I'd run a 3-WR set w/ a TE and Leonard in the backfield and Bryant on the Outside and Shipley in the slot. (And, tell Owens to sit down, shut up, and like it, or I'll cut you.)

On 3rd Down and less than 3-1/2 yards, Benson would be the back, Owens would still be on the bench, Bryant would be the Wideout, and Shipley would be in the slot along with a Tight End.

I wouldn't have a Fullback on the team, period. I'd have 6 Wide Receivers and 3 TE's on gameday. Quan Cosby is still the punt returner and is the 6th Wide Receiver w/ Caldwell or Matt Jones the 5th, depending on who shows to be the best player in camp. I'd cut Jerome Simpson and Caldwell, too if he doesn't beat out Matt Jones. But, if it was close, I'd keep Caldwell as he could have a better upside for 2011 and 2012 than Matt Jones.

[GIDP]

First Take mentioned how big of an ego Bryant has..(I wasn't aware).. and that there's no way he would give up #81 for TO.

Bryant gave up 81 already :laugh:

TO paid him money, and supposedly some of its going to a charity. What a bunch of terrible human beings these 3 WRs are.

[guttle11]

T.O. has never been a bad guy, just a complete drama queen. Word out of Buffalo, a bad team with no NFL level QB, was that he was really good in the locker room and on the sideline last year.

Keep in mind that in the biggest game of his career to date, T.O. dominated. I'm excited as a Bengal fan. On paper a good team last year has gotten better. It may work, it may not, but it's much better than sitting back and watching other teams make moves. Owens, Bryant, Gresham, Shipley, Briscoe...5 new passing options to address the biggest weakness. The o-line and entire defense added depth. I know Baltimore is the trendy SB pick, why I don't know with their secondary issues, but the division still runs through Cincy.

[GIDP]

I keep looking at this roster and think if this offense isnt back to domination like it used to be I'll be beyond surprised. I dont care if TO isnt the prime TO, hes till going to be darn good. He didnt gain 15 yards per catch last year on accident. Bryant was the best WR on the market this offseason, and Chad is still as good as anyone not named Brandon Marshall or Andre Johnson.

then you add in Gresham?

Cedric Benson and Bernard Scott?

4th WR being Caldwell, and Shipley?

I honestly believe thats about as stacked of an offense as you could have in the NFL. Seriously they have good players at every position and even their back ups are VERY good back ups.

Combine that with a D that has 2 of the best corners in the league. I mean I might be falling for some hype but how can you not be excited.

[Eric_the_Red]

I have lost all respect for TO. This will always be Chad's team, no matter what TO does. TO obviously doesn't want to be the alpha dog, he is happy being a sidekick. Now, TO can never be compared to Jerry Rice.

...oh, sorry...I confused this with the Lebron thread. ;)

[bucksfan2]

Make no mistake about it this team will go as far as Carson and the OLine allow it to go. Carson needs to prove that he is a top 10 type QB, something he hasn't been since 2005. And this line needs to prove they an give Carson time to throw the ball.

[Hoosier Red]

I have lost all respect for TO. This will always be Chad's team, no matter what TO does. TO obviously doesn't want to be the alpha dog, he is happy being a sidekick. Now, TO can never be compared to Jerry Rice.

...oh, sorry...I confused this with the Lebron thread. ;)

Very funny. :beerme:

[KOBasinger]

Antonio Bryant will outproduce Chad and T.O. statistically.

The guy is a straight workhorse and is being overlooked IMO. He's never really had a decent QB with him. I think he will produce like the same way TJ did with us back in 04-08.

Wouldn't be surprised if he pulls off a 1200 yard year.

Call me crazy?

[WVRed]

I said after the Jets loss (and even before), that the Bengals needed new weapons to be able to advance further in the playoffs.

Add Jermaine Gresham, Antonio Bryant, Matt Jones, and TO, and now Carson Palmer has no excuses.

Somebody I think people are writing off in the return game that will be a major player is Jordan Shipley. If he can stay healthy, the guy has Wes Welker written all over him.

[GIDP]

Antonio Bryant will outproduce Chad and T.O. statistically.

The guy is a straight workhorse and is being overlooked IMO. He's never really had a decent QB with him. I think he will produce like the same way TJ did with us back in 04-08.

Wouldn't be surprised if he pulls off a 1200 yard year.

Call me crazy?

I think a lot of people agree with this as long as he is healthy.

[GIDP]

I said after the Jets loss (and even before), that the Bengals needed new weapons to be able to advance further in the playoffs.

Add Jermaine Gresham, Antonio Bryant, and TO, and now Carson Palmer has no excuses.

Somebody I think people are writing off in the return game that will be a major player is Jordan Shipley. If he can stay healthy, the guy has Wes Welker written all over him.

Shipley, Adam Jones, Cosby, Bernard Scott.

I think any of those guys will be more than good enough in the return game.

[OesterPoster]

I wouldn't totally dismiss Caldwell. He worked hard during the offseason to improve his upper body strength to fight off defenders and get better separation. Pretty sure he joined a boxing club and used that for improved strength and agility. He did some really good things last year in limited playing time (and had a few bad moments too), but he's still very young.

I'm sure there will be an injury within that receiving group, and that will allow someone to step up who we've probably overlooked.

[WMR]

I have lost all respect for TO. This will always be Chad's team, no matter what TO does. TO obviously doesn't want to be the alpha dog, he is happy being a sidekick. Now, TO can never be compared to Jerry Rice.

...oh, sorry...I confused this with the Lebron thread. ;)

haaaaahahahaha

[WMR]

Are we going to see some 2005-era Carson Palmer this year?

This could be the make or break season for Carson's career. 2005 is a long time ago.

Is the Oline going to do their job so all this effort isn't one big waste?

[Razor Shines]

I have lost all respect for TO. This will always be Chad's team, no matter what TO does. TO obviously doesn't want to be the alpha dog, he is happy being a sidekick. Now, TO can never be compared to Jerry Rice.

...oh, sorry...I confused this with the Lebron thread. ;)

:laugh: Awesome.

[TeamSelig]

Bryant gave up 81 already :laugh:

TO paid him money, and supposedly some of its going to a charity. What a bunch of terrible human beings these 3 WRs are.

Good to hear. Just made Derrick Brooks and Skip Bayless (this happens several times an episode) look pretty ignorant.

[GIDP]

Good to hear. Just made Derrick Brooks and Skip Bayless (this happens several times an episode) look pretty ignorant.

Brooks did say he thinks it would be a non issue I think at the end.

[yab1112]

Bryant gave up 81 already :laugh:

TO paid him money, and supposedly some of its going to a charity. What a bunch of terrible human beings these 3 WRs are.

(link (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Thursday-update-Bryant-gives-TO-81-Smith-sidelined/f005a4c2-7895-4ff0-953d-fa9dfdc2df36))
But Bryant made the biggest catch of camp long before. He and Terrell Owens spoke and he agreed to give him No. 81 if he gave a donation to the Overtown Optimists, a football Little League in his hometown of Miami. He revealed what he him.

"I’m a realist. I’m not going to make a big spectacle out of it,” Bryant said. You’ve got a bigger legacy and number than I do. I’m a guy that just plays football. I’ve been on several teams like you have but changed my number several times and you haven’t. I don’t need you money. Just send a donation."

Bryant said. "I just told them to give those kids something. At least $8,000 for all the uniforms and registration and all the equipment they need. They're trying to get where we are."

[Brutus]

Just because this is funny to me, I want to review.

The Bengals now have:

Cedric Benson
Bernard Scott
Chad Ochocinco
Terrell Owens
Matt Jones
Andre Smith
Tank Johnson
Rey Maulaluga
Adam "Pacman" Jones
Roy Williams
Mike Nugent

And this coming after various transgressions of signing Larry Johnson, Chris Henry, Odell Thurman, etc. etc.

I don't mind second chances. I don't even care that much about character as it pertains to professional organizations. But wow this is comical.

[Joseph]

Just because this is funny to me, I want to review.

The Bengals now have:

Cedric Benson
Bernard Scott
Chad Ochocinco
Terrell Owens
Matt Jones
Andre Smith
Tank Johnson
Rey Maulaluga
Adam "Pacman" Jones
Roy Williams
Mike Nugent

And this coming after various transgressions of signing Larry Johnson, Chris Henry, Odell Thurman, etc. etc.

I don't mind second chances. I don't even care that much about character as it pertains to professional organizations. But wow this is comical.

If only we had Reggie Bush and Big Ben.

[MWM]

It's all for naught as long as Bob Bratkowski is the guy in charge of the offense.

[Redhook]

It's all for naught as long as Bob Bratkowski is the guy in charge of the offense.

But can they still win in spite of ol' Bob and his pathetically predictable offensive games plans? Similar to the Reds with Dusty and his old ways? Sometimes talent prevails. Hopefully that'll be the case with the Bengals as it is with the Reds currently.

[Hoosier Red]

It's all for naught as long as Bob Bratkowski is the guy in charge of the offense.

As much grief as he takes, how much of Bratkowski's predictable offense was due to the fact we had 1 TE who couldn't catch, 3 WR's(aside from Chad) who couldn't get open, a WR who had an early case of the dropsies(Coles) an OL that was better run blocking than pass blocking, and a QB who couldn't fake a handoff because of his sprained wrist.

People complain about not using the TE, but early in the season they did use the TE. A lot. It would usually result in a loss of down and no gain because of the incomplete pass after Coates dropped the ball. Was there a reason to keep doing that?

When he's had weapons to work with(ie 2005 and 2006) Bratkowski's offense has been borderline elite. When he's had to dumb it down, there seems to be no middle ground.

[Hoosier Red]

Just because this is funny to me, I want to review.

The Bengals now have:

Cedric Benson
Bernard Scott
Chad Ochocinco
Terrell Owens
Matt Jones
Andre Smith
Tank Johnson
Rey Maulaluga
Adam "Pacman" Jones
Roy Williams
Mike Nugent

And this coming after various transgressions of signing Larry Johnson, Chris Henry, Odell Thurman, etc. etc.

I don't mind second chances. I don't even care that much about character as it pertains to professional organizations. But wow this is comical.

Ya know its funny, I honestly think after the rash of arrests, Mike Brown really tried to only sign and draft "high character guys" for a few years. What happened was the Bengals were back to aspiring to mediocrity and the stigma of the arrests never went away. Beginning with last year, it was like he said screw it, I'll sign every guy who's had any issues. It's almost been a positive team unifier.

[Yachtzee]

I think if you look at any NFL roster, you're going to find a lot of guys who have had trouble with the law in the past. It's just the way things go with professional athletes these days. The time when people viewed pro athletes as blue collar working joes like themselves is long gone. The time when law enforcement would cut athletes a break and let things slide so that it could be kept quiet is also long gone. I'm sure if you put some Hall of Famers into today's pro sports environment, with all the money and fame but with greater media scrutiny, you'd find some of them getting into serious trouble themselves. That is why, as I get older, I have less attachment to pro athletes playing for my teams than I did when I was younger. If you put pro athletes on a pedestal, believing them to be the "good guys," I think you're bound to be disappointed.

With regard to the Bengals, I think the Brown family has always felt that, if given the right opportunity, players with off-the-field troubles could turn themselves around. I seem to remember them giving Stanley Wilson every chance to make it back with the team and they were heartbroken (as was the rest of the team) when he relapsed into his drug habit the night before the Super Bowl. My memory may be incorrect, but I seem to recall the only time the Bengals started dumping guys was when that whole incident came down when 30 Bengals were alleged to have been involved in raping a woman at a hotel. No one was ever convicted of anything, but I seem to remember a lot of roster turnover after that and many of the players alleged to have been involved were quietly sent packing. Of course it could be my memory trying to connect the dots of unrelated events, but I seem to remember hearing that as a possible reason why the Bengals got rid of some players. I don't thing Mike Brown was too happy when "Big Daddy" Dan Wilkerson allegedly punched his pregnant baby mama in the stomach either.

Of course, I've heard some Bengals are genuinely good people. My brother's wife lived in the same dorm as Dhani Jones in college and has always said he really is a great guy. Plus he has a cool show on the Travel Channel.

[Hoosier Red]

Just because this is funny to me, I want to review.

The Bengals now have:

Cedric Benson
Bernard Scott
Chad Ochocinco
Terrell Owens
Matt Jones
Andre Smith
Tank Johnson
Rey Maulaluga
Adam "Pacman" Jones
Roy Williams
Mike Nugent

And this coming after various transgressions of signing Larry Johnson, Chris Henry, Odell Thurman, etc. etc.

I don't mind second chances. I don't even care that much about character as it pertains to professional organizations. But wow this is comical.

I also think its important to recognize all "2nd Chances" are not created equal.

I mean what has Terrell Owens done other than be a jerk? Same with Chad OchoCinco?

Andre Smith talked to an agent before the Sugar Bowl game, and then had a weird absence at the scouting combine. But he did nothing illegal.

Pacman, Bernard Scott, Matt Jones and Tank Johnson all have significant ink on their police reports admittedly, but the others you mentioned have essentially been caught doing something stupid and dangerous.

Not exactly something to emulate, but I'm not sure they needed 2nd chances to redeem themselves. Unless my job depends on me being able to drive, I doubt I'd get fired for a drunk driving arrest or for getting in a fight in a bar.

I don't know why Roy Williams and Mike Nugent are on the list, I just can't remember.

[LoganBuck]

Jaime Dukes has coined the name "Bad News Bengals".

I kind of like it.

[GIDP]

Until you realize that its probably a play on Mike Vicks dog fighting kennel.

[Eric_the_Red]

I mean what has Terrell Owens done other than be a jerk?

There are jerks, and then there is TO:

- After decided to leave the Niners, TO insinuated his QB Jeff Garcia was a homosexual in a magazine interview

- After the Super Bowl, TO hires Rosenhaus and wants to renegotiate his contract, citing that he "wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl" (a jab at his QB Donovan McNabb)

- The next year TO is still upset about his contract and makes more comments about the Eagle and McNabb, to the point where the team suspends him 4 games and then deactivates him the rest of the season

- After signing with the Cowboys and having a mediocre game against the Eagles, TO throws a lockerroom tantrum demanding the ball more

- Following his 2008 release from the Cowboys, TO again blasts his QB Tony Romo and offfensive coordinator Jason Garrett

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_Owens#Controversy

[GIDP]

Hey when you are 36 and have been playing football for a long time some of those things are bound to happen.

[redsfandan]

A little bad news for the Ravens (and good news for the Bengals) is that the Ravens just lost a cornerback (Domonique Foxworth) for the season to an ACL tear.

[Sea Ray]

A little bad news for the Ravens (and good news for the Bengals) is that the Ravens just lost a cornerback (Domonique Foxworth) for the season to an ACL tear.

I would gloat a bit especially considering that's the exact position where Balt can least afford injuries but the truth is this could happen to anyone. That's also why it's too early to predict rosters and ultimately records. This was a non contact drill.

[membengal]

Yeah, it can happen to anyone, but Ozzie Newsome flat screwed the pooch on helping his secondary this off-season, and it's making me giggle.

[RichRed]

Of course, I've heard some Bengals are genuinely good people. My brother's wife lived in the same dorm as Dhani Jones in college and has always said he really is a great guy. Plus he has a cool show on the Travel Channel.

I'm a big fan of "Dhani Tackles the Globe."

[Reds Fanatic]

Benson is not going to be suspended by the commissioner for the assault charge he has.


NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will not suspend Bengals running back Cedric Benson for his role in a May altercation in Texas, two league sources said Friday.

Benson met last week with Goodell about his offseason arrest in Austin, Texas, on a charge of misdemeanor assault.

Benson is accused of punching a bar employee, a charge he has denied.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5423502

[LoganBuck]

Time to start the hand wringing about getting Jermaine Gresham signed yet?

[TeamSelig]

There are jerks, and then there is TO:

- After decided to leave the Niners, TO insinuated his QB Jeff Garcia was a homosexual in a magazine interview

- After the Super Bowl, TO hires Rosenhaus and wants to renegotiate his contract, citing that he "wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl" (a jab at his QB Donovan McNabb)

- The next year TO is still upset about his contract and makes more comments about the Eagle and McNabb, to the point where the team suspends him 4 games and then deactivates him the rest of the season

- After signing with the Cowboys and having a mediocre game against the Eagles, TO throws a lockerroom tantrum demanding the ball more

- Following his 2008 release from the Cowboys, TO again blasts his QB Tony Romo and offfensive coordinator Jason Garrett

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_Owens#Controversy

To be fair, McNabb has shown that he is quite the idiot. That is where most of TO's issues came from.

[MWM]

Really? From where I sit, McNabb has shown himself to be nothing but a class act, and a pretty darn good QB to boot.

[redsfanmia]

To be fair, McNabb has shown that he is quite the idiot. That is where most of TO's issues came from.

Examples? I always thought McNabb was a solid guy and a pretty good quarterback, not great but good.

[redsfanmia]

Is Carson a legit quarterback or the guy I watched last year? I guess I have become spoiled by watcing Petyon Manning every week for last 12 years, but I thought Carson looked like a sub-par quarterback last season.

[GIDP]

Is Carson a legit quarterback or the guy I watched last year? I guess I have become spoiled by watcing Petyon Manning every week for last 12 years, but I thought Carson looked like a sub-par quarterback last season.

I think it had a lot to do with play calling and only having 1 legit reciever.

[redsfanmia]

I think it had a lot to do with play calling and only having 1 legit reciever.

I think it has more to do with the fact that Carson is average at best.

[CTA513]

I think it has more to do with the fact that Carson is average at best.

I think it has more to do with him coming back from an elbow injury that people thought he would need surgery for.

[Screwball]

"Average at best" is incorrect, but so is attributing all his faults to Bratkowski and his WRs. Carson's still a good quarterback, but he's no longer in the discussion as being one of the elite QBs of the league, and rightfully so. Some devastating injuries have robbed him of that status.

However, he's still dangerous and a guy the defense must certainly respect. It's just no longer realistic to expect him to throw up 100+ passer ratings game in and game out like he did 4 or 5 years ago.

[redsfandan]

"Average at best" is incorrect, but so is attributing all his faults to Bratkowski and his WRs. Carson's still a good quarterback, but he's no longer in the discussion as being one of the elite QBs of the league, and rightfully so. Some devastating injuries have robbed him of that status.

However, he's still dangerous and a guy the defense must certainly respect. It's just no longer realistic to expect him to throw up 100+ passer ratings game in and game out like he did 4 or 5 years ago.

This is how many 100+ passer rating games Palmer has had by season:

'03 0 (didn't play, redshirt year)
'04 4
'05 11
'06 4
'07 5
'08 0 (injured, only played in 4 games)
'09 1

Now, it's not even August and training camp is just starting so I'm sure people would feel more comfortable with this after at least a couple preseason games. But, would anyone like to predict how many games with a 100+ passer rating Palmer will have this season based on how things look now?

I'll say 7 and hope I'm right.

[redsfanmia]

"Average at best" is incorrect, but so is attributing all his faults to Bratkowski and his WRs. Carson's still a good quarterback, but he's no longer in the discussion as being one of the elite QBs of the league, and rightfully so. Some devastating injuries have robbed him of that status.

However, he's still dangerous and a guy the defense must certainly respect. It's just no longer realistic to expect him to throw up 100+ passer ratings game in and game out like he did 4 or 5 years ago.

Let me rephrase average at best to just plain average. If He is not in the top 10-15 quarterbacks in the league than that makes him average.

[KoryMac5]

Let me rephrase average at best to just plain average. If He is not in the top 10-15 quarterbacks in the league than that makes him average.

Palmer is in that top 15 bracket, he is on the edge of the list but IMO he is a top 15 QB in this league. If he isn't I want to see the list that made it.

[redsfanmia]

Palmer is in that top 15 bracket, he is on the edge of the list but IMO he is a top 15 QB in this league. If he isn't I want to see the list that made it.

Top 15 makes him average.
Who would you take over him?

[Slyder]

Top 15 makes him average.
Who would you take over him?

Carson finished 16th in QB rating last year. Right smack dab in the middle.

1 Peyton
2 Brees
In no particular order now.
3 Schaub
4 Rodgers
5 Farve
6 Rivers
7 McNabb
8 Flacco
9 Romo
10 Warner
11 Campbell
12 The Other Manning
13 Vince Young
14 that moron in Pittsburgh
15 that NFL propped up ego in NE.

Thats how someone could look at it.

[Sea Ray]

Just got back from practice.

They had a huge crowd tonight; so much so traffic was backed up to the main road off campus to get into their $15 parking spots which I later heard were full. I saw one lot just a few steps away from the main one that had $10 parking. I got off on the street before because I wanted to avoid the mess and look for parking on the street. I turned onto Main St and it had plenty of street parking available. I parked in front of the Catholic Church but actually there were spots closer. Just plan a few extra minutes to drive around and pick your spot. The neighborhood comes right out of the cartoon King of the Hill with tiny houses/yards and folks hanging out on their doorstep in sleeveless white t-shirts smoking cigarettes.

Practice went on for a full two hours. Of course Chad and TO were the main attractions. They were the last ones on the field and they stuck out due to their wearing orange whereas others were wearing black.

--Chad showed his "extra gear" chasing down a long bomb from Carson
--TO made lots of catches, some easy, some in traffic
--Shipley looked the most impressive to me. He caught everything seamlessly and in stride. It's hard to explain how gifted he is catching the ball but it's like a receiver catching a ball in a video game. Most guys catch it in their hands, cradle it, tuck it away and run. Not Shipley. He "envelopes" the ball. It's like the ball becomes a part of his body, like in a video game. He's so smooth you don't notice him catching it. He worked in the slot, special teams and returned some punts along with Quan and Adam Jones
--Otis Hudson played RG
--Roland and Collins rotated at RT
--Ndukwe was quite the disruptor
--Roy Williams seemed lackadaisical. Wouldn't surprise me if he got cut.
--Briscoe seemed a step behind which I would attribute to getting adjusted to the speed of the NFL
--TO separated from Adam Jones on a long overthrown pass but I don't know if that says more about TO or Jones
--Caldwell looked good in the slot but I still think he's miscast there. He sure looks like a burner to meand not an over the middle guy
--They ran a TE screen to Reggie Kelly. Can't say I really want to see that one during the regular season

I saw the ambulance take someone off on a stretcher on the sideline but I can't say for sure who it was or even if it was a player. I didn't see any injuries on the field. This guy was hurt pretty bad. He had a neck brace and had a leg wrapped. He was a big, black guy so if he's a player, he's a lineman. I'm wondering if maybe he was a fan that fell out of the stands. We will see

[KoryMac5]

Carson finished 16th in QB rating last year. Right smack dab in the middle.

1 Peyton
2 Brees
In no particular order now.
3 Schaub
4 Rodgers
5 Farve
6 Rivers
7 McNabb
8 Flacco
9 Romo
10 Warner
11 Campbell
12 The Other Manning
13 Vince Young
14 that moron in Pittsburgh
15 that NFL propped up ego in NE.

Thats how someone could look at it.

If you think Jason Campbell is a better qb than Palmer, you must be Al Davis secretly posting as Slyder. :eek:

I could also argue Flacco and to some extent Vince Young who was benched last season for Kerry Collins ugggh.

Palmer with these three receivers is going to have a big year. I think what is often overlooked with Palmer is his completion percentage when it counts. Last season on third down he was at 61% completions, with these three he should be at 61% percent for the year not just on third down.

P.S. Warner retired. :cool:

[Slyder]

If you think Jason Campbell is a better qb than Palmer, you must be Al Davis secretly posting as Slyder. :eek:

I could also argue Flacco and to some extent Vince Young who was benched last season for Kerry Collins ugggh.

Palmer with these three receivers is going to have a big year. I think what is often overlooked with Palmer is his completion percentage when it counts. Last season on third down he was at 61% completions, with these three he should be at 61% percent for the year not just on third down.

P.S. Warner retired. :cool:

Im saying thats how some could look at it. Campbell had a better rating last season than Carson did with much less offensive help IMO ;). Should be interesting to see how this year goes. Vince came in and just reinvigorated that entire team havent seen Carson truely do that since the year he got his knee Von Olehoffen'd.

[Eric_the_Red]

Rumors circulating that the team could cut Antonio Bryant soon.

[KoryMac5]

Rumors circulating that the team could cut Antonio Bryant soon.

That rumor has been floating for a few weeks now as his knee has been a concern. The bengals have already paid him 7.5 million this season and his base salary is really low this year. Based on that info I don't see Bryant getting cut this season.

[Eric_the_Red]

That rumor has been floating for a few weeks now as his knee has been a concern. The bengals have already paid him 7.5 million this season and his base salary is really low this year. Based on that info I don't see Bryant getting cut this season.

I saw this on ESPN Insider:


In signing Terrell Owens, the Cincinnati Bengals now have their top two receivers set, with T.O. and Chad Ocho Cinco forming an impressive tandem.

The move also leaves Antonio Bryant, the team's offseason pick-up who was slotted to be Cincy's No. 2 WR, in a tough position. He's reportedly been bothered by a knee injury this offseason, and clearly has not impressed the team to the point where they would want to pass on bringing an extra guy like Owens into the mix.

While Bryant would now appear to be on track to be the team's No. 3 wideout, Evan Silva of ProFootballTalk.com writes that perhaps the team will choose to just release Bryant. Silva notes that doing so would save the team $1.55 million, and that Cincy already has a pair of solid slot receivers in Jordan Shipley and Andre Caldwell. Also, having another WR in Bryant who will presumably want to see plenty of passes coming his way, to go along with T.O. and Ocho Cinco, might not be something the Bengals are looking forward to.

There's no questioning Bryant's talent, however, so there's still the chance that Cincinnati will want to hang on to him and try to make things work.

I just get nervous when I read things like "save the team $1.55 million".

[KoryMac5]

I saw this on ESPN Insider:



I just get nervous when I read things like "save the team $1.55 million".

I don't blame you 1.5 million is a lot of cake to us, but to a team that has already paid Bryant 7 million this season it is a pretty low base salary. Bryant's base jumps to 4.5 million next season so if his knee is bad he will most likely be cut than.

[Sea Ray]

A lot of this concerns how the other Bengal receivers look and fare in this summer's preseason games. Believe it or not Jerome Simpson has looked good and Quan Cosby has always been his steady self. There's also Briscoe in the mix. They may not want to risk losing those guys because next yr and beyond they will likely need them.

Of course this is the NFL and injuries can change things. Thus the bottomline is they need to re-evaluate where they are after the preseason. They may need Bryant, gimpy knee and all if others go down or don't impress. Or they may decide to IR him or cut him but it makes no sense to do anything now.

[Redsfaithful]

I think they'd IR Bryant before they'd cut him. He could help out in 2011 and the money has for the most part already been spent.

[OesterPoster]

Considering he's listed as a starter on Marvin's 1st depth chart of the camp...and I guess he's not getting cut very soon.

[bucksfan2]

Bryant wasn't placed on the PUP list and has practiced already. To me that shows that he will be ready to go either by the 1st game or shortly there after. I don't see him being cut because the Bengals paid him a substantial signing bonus this season.

[Hoosier Red]

Bryant wasn't placed on the PUP list and has practiced already. To me that shows that he will be ready to go either by the 1st game or shortly there after. I don't see him being cut because the Bengals paid him a substantial signing bonus this season.

If I recall correctly, if they place him on the PUP list now, he can't play the first 6 weeks. With the plethora of wide receivers available, if he's not ready to go by week 1, they may do that and give themselves some extra time to get everything sorted out.

This is a good year to have 5 pre-season games too.

[joshnky]

If I recall correctly, if they place him on the PUP list now, he can't play the first 6 weeks. With the plethora of wide receivers available, if he's not ready to go by week 1, they may do that and give themselves some extra time to get everything sorted out.

This is a good year to have 5 pre-season games too.

He can't be placed on PUP because he has practiced already.

[Hoosier Red]

He can't be placed on PUP because he has practiced already.

I thought it was the other way around. If he was on the PUP before training camp, he could stay on that list but start practicing and play at any time. If he's put on the list now, it's an automatic 6 games he has to sit out.

I'm willing to take your word for it though as I understand next to nothing of the thousands of rules set forth on the manipulations of the rules are beyond confusing to me.

[joshnky]

I thought it was the other way around. If he was on the PUP before training camp, he could stay on that list but start practicing and play at any time.

I found this comment on Bengals.com:


» Wide receiver Antonio Bryant missed his second practice as the coaches made good on their vow to keep him from aggravating his knee. But it’s too late to put him on the physically unprepared list at the beginning of the season because he worked in the first practice on Thursday, so they must believe he’ll respond.

[Sea Ray]

Physically Unprepared to Play refers to an off season injury. It does not include injuries that happen during practice so in order to avoid a rash of PUP candidates they say you can't go on PUP once you've participated in a practice.

Here's a great article explaining PUP:


The Active PUP is for players that have some form of injury that will prevent them from starting training camp.

If placed on Active PUP, a player can rehab and participate in team meetings but cannot practice.

A player has to be placed on Active PUP before he begins training camp, so that's why you're seeing the stories popping up now.

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m7d28-Clarifying-NFL-rules-on-the-physically-unable-to-perform-PUP-list

[Sea Ray]

Lance McAlister on 1530-AM just announced that Adam Schefter is reporting that the Bengals have reached a contract agreement with Jermaine Gresham and that he may be at practice tonight at 7pm.

[GIDP]

earlier than I expected.

[Sea Ray]

earlier than I expected.

This is bigtime earlier than usual for the Bengals. In terms of base salary the Bengals paid over slot and that's amazing too. Guaranteed money is perfectly slotted. I never thought I'd see the day that Mike Brown would do this for a guy who sat out all of last year

[davereds24]

Mike has really made a 180 lately, I guess getting up there in age he really wants to win. Now the team just has to survive camp without serious injuries.

[Tony Cloninger]

They still need pass blocking OL.....only Whitworth, to me...seems capable of doing that on an OK basis.

[bucksfan2]

Mike has really made a 180 lately, I guess getting up there in age he really wants to win. Now the team just has to survive camp without serious injuries.

I firmly believe that the NFL gave Mike an edict to change the way he ran the organization or change were going to be made. I think shortly after that Marvin was hired and the limited scouting department was increased. I also don't think you can underscore the impact on scouting that technology has made. It has made it feasible to scout with a much smaller scouting department.

That said I also think a couple of years of sold out tickets have made an impact on Mike. It is a lot nicer when you start the season with all the money in your pocket by mid June. I think Mike got used to that and wants that to happen again.

[Cedric]

They still need pass blocking OL.....only Whitworth, to me...seems capable of doing that on an OK basis.

They won't truly be great unless some miracle happens up front. Their OL is weak still.

[GIDP]

I also think he hired a good coach for the first time in his life.

[Yachtzee]

I firmly believe that the NFL gave Mike an edict to change the way he ran the organization or change were going to be made. I think shortly after that Marvin was hired and the limited scouting department was increased. I also don't think you can underscore the impact on scouting that technology has made. It has made it feasible to scout with a much smaller scouting department.

That said I also think a couple of years of sold out tickets have made an impact on Mike. It is a lot nicer when you start the season with all the money in your pocket by mid June. I think Mike got used to that and wants that to happen again.

I don't think so. If thay were the case, the NFL would have stepped in and done something about the Lions, Raiders, Rams, Cards, and Saints at one point or another. The Bengals may have had a historically bad run through the 90s and early 2000s, but not any worse than what those other teams have had. At least Brown never hired a TV commentator to run his team. I think the only time the NFL has put pressure on Brown to do something is put in field turf when the grass at PBS wouldn't take root.

[Cedric]

I don't think so. If thay were the case, the NFL would have stepped in and done something about the Lions, Raiders, Rams, Cards, and Saints at one point or another. The Bengals may have had a historically bad run through the 90s and early 2000s, but not any worse than what those other teams have had. At least Brown never hired a TV commentator to run his team. I think the only time the NFL has put pressure on Brown to do something is put in field turf when the grass at PBS wouldn't take root.

TV commentator looks like Vince Lombardi compared to Dave Shula.

Dave Shula being hired as a head coach has to be the worst coaching hire in sports history.

[Yachtzee]

TV commentator looks like Vince Lombardi compared to Dave Shula.

Dave Shula being hired as a head coach has to be the worst coaching hire in sports history.

At least Shula never went 0-16. The worst move from that time was dumping Esiason for Klingler. Ripped the heart right out of the team.

[davereds24]

I firmly believe that the NFL gave Mike an edict to change the way he ran the organization or change were going to be made. I think shortly after that Marvin was hired and the limited scouting department was increased. I also don't think you can underscore the impact on scouting that technology has made. It has made it feasible to scout with a much smaller scouting department.

That said I also think a couple of years of sold out tickets have made an impact on Mike. It is a lot nicer when you start the season with all the money in your pocket by mid June. I think Mike got used to that and wants that to happen again.

The NFL does not need the Bengals to be good, actually they would rather the division every year I'm sure.

Also, they haven't sold out early. Last year was the worst ticket sales year since 2003 I believe. They had to get bailed out 6 or 7 of the 8 home games to avoid blackout.

I do agree Marvin has had a big impact.

[BringDownMugabe]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4851483130_9a36bcfa11.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4850839299_06dceaf02c.jpg

Embarrassing. Well, so much for improving that weak offensive line. Injury to any of the starters, and the Bengals are in trouble.

[CTA513]

Embarrassing. Well, so much for improving that weak offensive line. Injury to any of the starters, and the Bengals are in trouble.


I bet Bobbie Williams probably weighs about as much if not more than Smith.
Though Smith does need to lose about 30-40 pounds due to him playing RT.

[BringDownMugabe]

I bet Bobbie Williams probably weighs about as much if not more than Smith.
Though Smith does need to lose about 30-40 pounds due to him playing RT.

That, and Bobbie Williams is a veteran and you know what you're going to get. Andre Smith had weight issues coming out of college, signed a incentive-based weight loss NFL contract, missed most of his rookie year (which can be attributed to his poor conditioning), and is now on the PUP this preseason because he reported to camp out of shape...again.

I know O-Lineman aren't going to win any modeling contests, but that picture is all I needed to see.

[GIDP]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4851483130_9a36bcfa11.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4850839299_06dceaf02c.jpg

Embarrassing. Well, so much for improving that weak offensive line. Injury to any of the starters, and the Bengals are in trouble.

I dont know why these photos are embarrassing.

[texasdave]

Looks like he has his eye on the NFL's biggest bust Hall of Shame.

[Slyder]

Looks like he has his eye on the NFL's biggest bust Hall of Shame.

He's got a LOOOOOTTTT of work to do if he's even going to approach JaWalrus.