View Full Version : Merged: UK Basketball
dabvu2498
03-04-2009, 11:18 PM
Oh my...a loss to Georgia would probably be a final dagger. UK will win tonight. Not so fast, my friend. I thought they would get one tonight too. But when you don't guard people... 90 to that team... ugly.
With the disclaimer that UK became a secondary affiliation when I went to college somewhere else, I still follow them and root for them... I agree with the above. I know Gillispie didn't walk into a turnkey team, but there aren't a lot of teams out there with a pair like Patterson and Meeks. It shouldn't be that hard to fill in around them with useful role players, especially for a guy who can recruit like Gillispie, and in a sport where other high-profile programs like Kansas or UNC can get back to the Tournament with little suspense despite practically replacing the entire team from the year before. Something's not quite right and I'm not sure what.
You oughta check out Ben Howland's first two seasons at UCLA, or Coach K's first two years at Duke.
DTCromer
03-04-2009, 11:19 PM
Part of the problem in Lexington are its fans.
Boston Red
03-04-2009, 11:19 PM
You oughta check out Ben Howland's first two seasons at UCLA
Steve Lavin Tubby Smith is not.
Steve Lavin Tubby Smith is not.
UCLA recruits itself.
Steve Lavin > Tubby's 8th and 9th years at UK
Part of the problem in Lexington are its fans.
What does that mean?
joshnky
03-04-2009, 11:23 PM
You oughta check out Ben Howland's first two seasons at UCLA, or Coach K's first two years at Duke.
Ben Howland's team got seven wins better and made the tournament in his second year. I think there are very few who would say they've seen any improvement in the performance of this UK team since Gillispie took over.
DTCromer
03-04-2009, 11:24 PM
What does that mean?
It means all of you crazy folks who wanted Tubby gone are getting what you asked for.
Ben Howland's team got seven wins better and made the tournament in his second year. I think there are very few who would say they've seen any improvement in the performance of this UK team since Gillispie took over.
No improvement last year? :lol:
It's a lot easier to see the light turn on for freshmen when they've got seniors leading the way.
Boston Red
03-04-2009, 11:24 PM
Steve Lavin > Tubby's 8th and 9th years at UK
Steve Lavin's last UCLA team won less than 10 games.
Edit. Sorry. They were actually 10-19.
It means all of you crazy folks who wanted Tubby gone are getting what you asked for.
:lol:
Ignore list updated.
Blimpie
03-04-2009, 11:26 PM
Time to work on those recruits from the Big Apple.
dabvu2498
03-04-2009, 11:29 PM
UCLA recruits itself. Ever been to Pauley Pavillion? Dump. They don't even have concession stands inside the building anymore. And I don't imagine the pac 10s tv contract helps. 17 year old kids could give a hoot about dusty old banners and a 90 year old dude in the front row.
Ever been to Pauley Pavillion? Dump. They don't even have concession stands inside the building anymore. And I don't imagine the pac 10s tv contract helps. 17 year old kids could give a hoot about dusty old banners and a 90 year old dude in the front row.
I was thinking more of Los Angeles, babes, and the beach. ;)
AccordinglyReds
03-04-2009, 11:30 PM
Part of the problem in Lexington are its fans.
What does that mean?
It means all of you crazy folks who wanted Tubby gone are getting what you asked for.
Case in point. Last loss---people in one of my classes (at UK) said UK needed a new coach. :rolleyes:
joshnky
03-04-2009, 11:32 PM
I was thinking more of Los Angeles, babes, and the beach. ;)
You mean Lexington can't compete with that? ;)
You mean Lexington can't compete with that? ;)
lol
dabvu2498
03-04-2009, 11:34 PM
Time to work on those recruits from the Big Apple. They'll have another home game to lose before that happens.
I'm speechless. You need a win to boost your chances of an NCAA bid and what do you do? Lose at home on senior night to a team with a 2-12 conference record.
I'm not sure what will get these kids to play like they're wearing Kentucky uniforms. Goodness knows that the other humiliating losses didn't do the trick. Now they HAVE to win the SEC tourney, IMO, if they want to make it to the NCAAs.
I'm not advocating it (AT ALL), but if Gillispie were given his walking papers next month, I wouldn't be upset. But if they want to give him a 3rd year to see if he can improve on this terrible conference record, I won't freak out. I would just hope that they let him know that he's going to have to earn a 4th year.
ian_madden
03-04-2009, 11:39 PM
fire Billy Gillespie. he has lead this program to an all new low. thanks to all who prayed for the departure of Tubby Smith. NIT bound. This is not ok. PERIOD!!!!!
WVRed
03-05-2009, 12:06 AM
fire Billy Gillespie. he has lead this program to an all new low. thanks to all who prayed for the departure of Tubby Smith. NIT bound. This is not ok. PERIOD!!!!!
You wouldn't be one of the fans throwing bottles at Gillispie when he was exiting the court would you? :)
Wow. I'm speechless. I honestly thought the Cats would come out fighting tonight and get a much needed win. They'll need a strong showing in the SEC tourney now.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 12:08 AM
I was thinking more of Los Angeles, babes, and the beach. ;)
USC has all the same things, yet can't get the same results. Well, in football they can.
For the record, Kentucky is one of the programs that can recruit itself as well. Playing in a downtown arena in front of sold out fans and a top notch practice facility. The star has fallen, but it wouldn't take a lot to get the program back on track.
DTCromer
03-05-2009, 12:38 AM
:lol:
Ignore list updated.
Exactly.
Tubby would've had this team winning the SEC east and probably in the Sweet 16 this year.
I'm not a UK fan, but I'm just thinking what the rest of the nation already knows.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 01:10 AM
Exactly.
Tubby would've had this team winning the SEC east and probably in the Sweet 16 this year.
I'm not a UK fan, but I'm just thinking what the rest of the nation already knows.
Not even close.
Tubby brought the overall quality of the program down and really brought it down to probation level.
He could not evaluate overall talent, even saying Corey Brewer would not make it in the SEC. Two championships back to back and an NBA lottery pick say otherwise.
His style of play ran off potential recruits and stifled production from current players. Brandan Wright, who went to North Carolina for a year, said he chose UNC despite growing up a UK fan because of the style of play.
Anybody who wants to see Tubby Smith as head coach still needs to look at Jodie Meeks, because Meeks wouldn't be half the player he is right now under Tubby that he is under Gillispie.
Tubby needed to go when he did, and while Kentucky whiffed on getting Billy Donovan, I do believe Gillispie can turn it around. I just think the expectations between El Paso, College Station, and Lexington are a little bit different and the few days to this offseason will be very interesting as to how Gillispie responds.
It will be an interesting offseason to say the least.
Not even close.
Tubby brought the overall quality of the program down and really brought it down to probation level.
He could not evaluate overall talent, even saying Corey Brewer would not make it in the SEC. Two championships back to back and an NBA lottery pick say otherwise.
His style of play ran off potential recruits and stifled production from current players. Brandan Wright, who went to North Carolina for a year, said he chose UNC despite growing up a UK fan because of the style of play.
Anybody who wants to see Tubby Smith as head coach still needs to look at Jodie Meeks, because Meeks wouldn't be half the player he is right now under Tubby that he is under Gillispie.
Tubby needed to go when he did, and while Kentucky whiffed on getting Billy Donovan, I do believe Gillispie can turn it around. I just think the expectations between El Paso, College Station, and Lexington are a little bit different and the few days to this offseason will be very interesting as to how Gillispie responds.
It will be an interesting offseason to say the least.
Thanks, WV.
I wasn't about to go through that explanation for the 100000000th time.
cumberlandreds
03-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Here's John Clay's article about the state of UK basketball. It's about the most depressing but accurate article I have ever read about UK basketball. At this point I don't what to think. There is much wrong that's for sure. From the players and their desire to even play at this level to coaching. With every passing game I think more and more BG is in over his head. I just don't think he can handle the pressure. He apparently got angry with Tom Leach over a soft toss question and accussed Leach of trying to bait him into bad mouthing his players. Then BG goes on to throw Stevenson and Harrelson under the bus for not competing. To me that shows someone cracking under the pressure. I'm like what durl said in his post,if BG leaves after this season,I'm not shedding any tears. If he is here next season then there better be tremendous improvement and if not he shouldn't expect to be back for a 4th season.
http://www.kentucky.com/826/story/715111.html
bucksfan2
03-05-2009, 10:53 AM
USC has all the same things, yet can't get the same results. Well, in football they can.
For the record, Kentucky is one of the programs that can recruit itself as well. Playing in a downtown arena in front of sold out fans and a top notch practice facility. The star has fallen, but it wouldn't take a lot to get the program back on track.
I think you off on this. I don't think UK can sell themselves by name anymore. Who was the last great player to come through UK? When was the last time the program was a national contender? If I were a kid UT and UF would 2 SEC schools ahead of UK. If I were a big man LSU probably would be ahead of UK.
Coaches and AAU coach relationships sell programs now. It is just the nature of college basketball. You can go anywhere and become a star. The top two picks last year were from Memphis and Kansas St. Memphis has a top coach and Kansas St. brought along an AAU coach.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 11:18 AM
I think you off on this. I don't think UK can sell themselves by name anymore. Who was the last great player to come through UK? When was the last time the program was a national contender? If I were a kid UT and UF would 2 SEC schools ahead of UK. If I were a big man LSU probably would be ahead of UK.
Coaches and AAU coach relationships sell programs now. It is just the nature of college basketball. You can go anywhere and become a star. The top two picks last year were from Memphis and Kansas St. Memphis has a top coach and Kansas St. brought along an AAU coach.
You could make the same case for Michigan and Tennessee in football lately.
Kentucky is always going to have the name power to sell itself with. It takes the right coach to sell the program and I believe if Gillispie can straighten things out he can be that coach.
I disagree with Tennessee and Florida being ahead of UK in recruiting. Tennessee was supposed to run away with the conference this year and ended up falling out of the top 25 alltogether. As disappointing as our season has been, Pearl hasn't really exceeded expectations in Rocky Top.
Florida has sold itself to major recruits in their home state (Nick Calathes and Kenny Boynton) and Corey Brewer in Tennessee after Kentucky spurned him (Thanks again Tubby). The problem with Florida is, like it or not, Urban Meyer and the football team will always be number one.
As for the top two picks in last years draft, that is going to continue to be the trend. However, the perennial college powers such as Duke, Kansas, UCLA, North Carolina, and hopefully Kentucky and Indiana have done it through finding the right players and developing them into 3-4 year players. I don't think you can honestly use the NBA Draft as a good barometer in determining the state of college basketball.
DTCromer
03-05-2009, 11:23 AM
Thanks, WV.
I wasn't about to go through that explanation for the 100000000th time.
And yet you're pissed you lost to UGA.
You wanted Billy G, well you certainly got him.
TeamSelig
03-05-2009, 11:42 AM
What the heck is wrong with UK
I honestly cannot wait until next year when all these jackals in Lexington are trying to get back on the bandwagon. I hope BCG tells them all to go to hell.
bucksfan2
03-05-2009, 12:31 PM
You could make the same case for Michigan and Tennessee in football lately.
Kentucky is always going to have the name power to sell itself with. It takes the right coach to sell the program and I believe if Gillispie can straighten things out he can be that coach.
I disagree with Tennessee and Florida being ahead of UK in recruiting. Tennessee was supposed to run away with the conference this year and ended up falling out of the top 25 alltogether. As disappointing as our season has been, Pearl hasn't really exceeded expectations in Rocky Top.
Florida has sold itself to major recruits in their home state (Nick Calathes and Kenny Boynton) and Corey Brewer in Tennessee after Kentucky spurned him (Thanks again Tubby). The problem with Florida is, like it or not, Urban Meyer and the football team will always be number one.
As for the top two picks in last years draft, that is going to continue to be the trend. However, the perennial college powers such as Duke, Kansas, UCLA, North Carolina, and hopefully Kentucky and Indiana have done it through finding the right players and developing them into 3-4 year players. I don't think you can honestly use the NBA Draft as a good barometer in determining the state of college basketball.
I disagree with you. Football recruiting is a different animal all together. There aren't AAU team and AAU coaches. One player doesn't make a team. Look how many more time Michael Beasley and KSU were on national TV last year as opposed to this year. One player can make a HUGE difference in basketball, in football you need a team.
You bring up an interesting point with the perennial powers. Its all who is the head coach, not the name on the jersey that sells the program. The UK name may attract higher profile coaches but its not going to attract the player anymore.
Duke - Coach K is a great coach. This program will always be around but I don't see them winning an national title unless they get a very special player who decides to stick around one more year.
UCLA - Remember the Lavin years? It took Howland's east coast toughness to bring UCLA back to power. There was a dry stretch when UCLA wasn't relevant to the entire nation.
UNC - Remember the Doherty years? One early flame out, two straight NCAA tourney misses. UNC didn't rebound until Roy Williams came aboard.
Indiana - For the most part they have been irrelevant since Knight left. They had the surprising run to the final 4 which I still can't tell you how they pulled that off. Mike Davis was an awful big program coach and Kellen Sampson was a cheat. It will be interesting to see how Crean does as the head coach.
Kansas - The program was relevant under Roy Williams and they made the right hire bringing in Bill Self. He has kept the program clicking and won the first national title since Larry Brown, something Turncoat Williams was unable to do.
I guess my point is that traditional programs have gone south due to poor coaching hires. Its the coach who sells the program not the name on the jersey. Fewer and fewer players care about the tradition, they care more about making it to the NBA.
I honestly cannot wait until next year when all these jackals in Lexington are trying to get back on the bandwagon. I hope BCG tells them all to go to hell.
The fine line here is that Billy G probably believes that the fans have a right to be disappointed because the team is simply not improving. If he turns it around next year, the only thing he should say to "bandwagon" fans is, "You were right. Our performance was unacceptable last year."
Kentucky is in the second year of a supposed "rebuild" but they get blown out by a first year coach at South Carolina and then lose to a weak Georgia team at Rupp on Senior Night to an INTERIM coach. So we can't blame the poor performance on the fact that Billy's still considered a new coach.
Frankly, he's got to show the fans that he can get this program back on course because it's going in the wrong direction when it shouldn't be at this point in his tenure. I'm not saying he should win 99% of his games but there's really no reason for them to be this bad at the end of the season.
I'm not calling for the guys head. All I'm saying is, that if he's got it in him, he really needs to start showing it soon. There's nothing wrong with fans expecting improvement and Billy G has to know this.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm like what durl said in his post,if BG leaves after this season,I'm not shedding any tears. If he is here next season then there better be tremendous improvement and if not he shouldn't expect to be back for a 4th season.
If Gillispie leaves this year or even next, it will be on his own free will and not because he is fired. Gillispie has recruits lined up all the way to 2012 and one of the recruits in 2010 is a five star recruit. If he did leave though, we would be in a lot worse shape right now than when Tubby left.
I'm really starting to wonder how much control Gillispie really has of the locker room right now, and that goes from the players to everybody sitting in on the team meetings.
WillyMo, this isn't directed at you, and I will admit I obviously have no clue what is posted on the website I am referring to when I type this.
I had been contemplating signing up for an "Insider" message board that contains information regarding the program from within. Some of the posters on the board post information that lets the insiders know what is going on within the locker room, practices, and recruiting.
This tells me one of two things:
1. The people posting the information are making it up to make a profit. (not likely)
2. Gillispie has no idea that the people who are around him are posting information that should probably be kept "in house" for the general paying public to read. If Gillispie did know, these people likely would be out of a job.
I could be wrong, and I am sure somebody will be more than willing to verify this, but I don't ever remember when Tubby was coach any UK websites that were publishing the "insider information". It just makes me wonder exactly how much control Gillispie has of the locker room right now, and not just the players.
The fine line here is that Billy G probably believes that the fans have a right to be disappointed because the team is simply not improving. If he turns it around next year, the only thing he should say to "bandwagon" fans is, "You were right. Our performance was unacceptable last year."
Kentucky is in the second year of a supposed "rebuild" but they get blown out by a first year coach at South Carolina and then lose to a weak Georgia team at Rupp on Senior Night to an INTERIM coach. So we can't blame the poor performance on the fact that Billy's still considered a new coach.
Frankly, he's got to show the fans that he can get this program back on course because it's going in the wrong direction when it shouldn't be at this point in his tenure. I'm not saying he should win 99% of his games but there's really no reason for them to be this bad at the end of the season.
I'm not calling for the guys head. All I'm saying is, that if he's got it in him, he really needs to start showing it soon. There's nothing wrong with fans expecting improvement and Billy G has to know this.
Your post is reasonable and I'm not talking to fans who think like you do.
I'm primarily talking about the media, but also to the fans who are calling for the guy's head on a platter.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 12:51 PM
UNC - Remember the Doherty years? One early flame out, two straight NCAA tourney misses. UNC didn't rebound until Roy Williams came aboard.
One problem with the Doherty years logic. He pulled in a top recruiting class with Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants, and Sean May. This class was the core that won the NCAA tournament when Roy Williams took over.
Also, while I am looking at it, Steve Lavin did bring in the top recruiting classes in the nation in 1998 and 2001. A lot of NBA Draft picks during that time as well.
I don't believe Matt Doherty and Steve Lavin did their programs any favors, but there are instances where the program sold itself.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 12:54 PM
Your post is reasonable and I'm not talking to fans who think like you do.
I'm primarily talking about the media, but also to the fans who are calling for the guy's head on a platter.
The Lexington media has had an axe to grind with Gillispie ever since he came aboard. I can stand John Clay to an extent, but Jerry Tipton shouldn't be allowed to cover Kentucky basketball, period.
I'm curious if there is any more fallout besides the throwing of beer bottles at Gillispie last night.
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Your post is reasonable and I'm not talking to fans who think like you do. I'm primarily talking about the media, but also to the fans who are calling for the guy's head on a platter. Would you agree that saying you still have 100 percent faith in BG to get them to an elite level is just as near sighted as wanting him fired?
Would you agree that saying you still have 100 percent faith in BG to get them to an elite level is just as near sighted as wanting him fired?
Who says I have 100 percent faith in BG getting UK to an elite level?
I'm saying that the idea of canning a coach after 2 years is pure idiocy.
The Lexington media has had an axe to grind with Gillispie ever since he came aboard. I can stand John Clay to an extent, but Jerry Tipton shouldn't be allowed to cover Kentucky basketball, period.
I'm curious if there is any more fallout besides the throwing of beer bottles at Gillispie last night.
Agreed on Tipton. The man is a joke.
One small correction: Rupp Arena doesn't sell beer at UK games (luckily for BCG :D ).
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Who says I have 100 percent faith in BG getting UK to an elite level? I'm saying that the idea of canning a coach after 2 years is pure idiocy. That is certainly the impression you have given. And I agree with the last statement there.
That is certainly the impression you have given. And I agree with the last statement there.
Well, I'm not.
It probably does appear that way though since I spend just about all my time in this thread defending my program and coach.
I just want to give him a fair, legitimate shot.
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 01:26 PM
Well, I'm not. It probably does appear that way though since I spend just about all my time in this thread defending my program and coach. I just want to give him a fair, legitimate shot. Fair enough.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 01:27 PM
Just for comparisons sake:
Steve Lavin: 1996-2003 (8 years)
Matt Doherty: 2000-2003 (4 years)
Mike Davis: 2000–2006 (8 years)
Anyone still want to can Gillispie after two years?
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 01:44 PM
Just for comparisons sake: Steve Lavin: 1996-2003 (8 years) Matt Doherty: 2000-2003 (4 years) Mike Davis: 2000?2006 (8 years) Anyone still want to can Gillispie after two years? Not sure that actually makes your point. Because one could ask "anyone want to let your program get in that kind of shape?"
bucksfan2
03-05-2009, 03:18 PM
One problem with the Doherty years logic. He pulled in a top recruiting class with Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants, and Sean May. This class was the core that won the NCAA tournament when Roy Williams took over.
Also, while I am looking at it, Steve Lavin did bring in the top recruiting classes in the nation in 1998 and 2001. A lot of NBA Draft picks during that time as well.
I don't believe Matt Doherty and Steve Lavin did their programs any favors, but there are instances where the program sold itself.
I had a roommate in college who was a huge UNC fan and I lived with him during the Doherty years. The Felton, McCants, and May (IU is still pissed he didn't go there) was a good class that Doherty just couldn't get to click. McCants was one of the dumbest college basketball players I have ever seen and it took Roy Williams to come into the program in order to put everything together.
UNC and UCLA did get recruits while Doherty and Lavin were there but their recruiting classes are much much better now and more consistant, now that Howland and Williams are there.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 04:52 PM
I had a roommate in college who was a huge UNC fan and I lived with him during the Doherty years. The Felton, McCants, and May (IU is still pissed he didn't go there) was a good class that Doherty just couldn't get to click. McCants was one of the dumbest college basketball players I have ever seen and it took Roy Williams to come into the program in order to put everything together.
UNC and UCLA did get recruits while Doherty and Lavin were there but their recruiting classes are much much better now and more consistant, now that Howland and Williams are there.
Still, the point being, the name is still going to get the recruits who ultimately plan on staying.
I can't speak for UNC, but I have a hard time believing that anybody picking UCLA does it for anything other than prestige. The team doesn't have a practice facility and practices at Pauley, which as alluded to is outdated. The Los Angeles scene helps, but most of the players who attend are from the West Coast anyways. When you consider USC has a brand new arena and a former NBA coach at the helm and they haven't had the recruiting success, it points more to prestige than anything.
In the case of Indiana though, especially when Bobby Knight was there, Knight did more to attract players to fit his style of play, similar to Tubby Smith. Indiana has always been a hotbed of talent and players such as Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Josh McRoberts, etc. have spurned the opportunity to play for the Hoosiers.
Well Jon Hood has a stress fracture and Patterson is going pro. Any other good news? :laugh:
As an aside: his decision was not made because he doesn't like Coach any more. He has really come back strong from his injuries, looks great, and is worried about an injury next season really setting his draft stock back big time.
joshnky
03-05-2009, 05:10 PM
Well Jon Hood has a stress fracture and Patterson is going pro. Any other good news? :laugh:
As an aside: his decision was not made because he doesn't like Coach any more. He has really come back strong from his injuries, looks great, and is worried about an injury next season really setting his draft stock back big time.
Makes sense and is probably a wise decision given the troubles he has had with injuries. So, does this make it more likely that Meeks will go also? I've heard the scouts still don't project him very highly and he could fall to the second round. That being said, this will be a down draft and it would be difficult for him to have a better season next year.
Makes sense and is probably a wise decision given the troubles he has had with injuries. So, does this make it more likely that Meeks will go also? I've heard the scouts still don't project him very highly and he could fall to the second round. That being said, this will be a down draft and it would be difficult for him to have a better season next year.
Here is what I posted about this very issue elsewhere:
Jodie Meeks is a first round talent right now? I just don't see it.
- Not enough height to play the 2
- Not good enough with decision-making, passing, or dribbling to play PG
- Can't consistently create his own shot
- Can't finish at the rim versus larger men
- Turnovers (leads the Cats IIRC ... and lots of REALLY bad TOs ... plays into decision-making and his inability to play point at this time)
What team is going to draft him in the first round?
His stats could likely be lower next season but his draftability could very well improve.
EVERYONE please read this.
http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/basketball/926-guest-basketball/813-the-day-after-state-of-uk-basketball.html
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 05:57 PM
EVERYONE please read this. http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/basketball/926-guest-basketball/813-the-day-after-state-of-uk-basketball.html Why? So we can hear some more blind faith ramblings about the greatness of bg? ;) What is Maggard's resume anyway? He refers to himself as a professional basketball scout. That made me curious.
Hoosier Red
03-05-2009, 06:10 PM
The logic there is a little tough to understand.
Yeah it's tough right now, we have a lot of freshmen but don't worry they'll be sophomores next year(and that will fix everything.) I know Patterson and maybe Meeks are gone, but don't worry about them, these two freshmen are coming in and they're going to be great!
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 06:21 PM
The logic there is a little tough to understand. Yeah it's tough right now, we have a lot of freshmen but don't worry they'll be sophomores next year(and that will fix everything.) I know Patterson and maybe Meeks are gone, but don't worry about them, these two freshmen are coming in and they're going to be great! Good points. I don't buy his lack of adjustments argument either. Look at how much differently Memphis plays this year. Pitino's style is certainly different than it used to be. Did Huggs play as much zone in his entire tenure at UC as he has this year?
He makes good points. Patience, perhaps, is needed.
The article states that the talent just isn't there yet. I agree that the talent level at Kentucky from top-to-bottom isn't there right now. However, I don't believe it's significantly worse than last year. I just wonder why this team is floundering down the stretch.
The same team that took LSU down to the wire and gave Louisville a good game couldn't muster the fight to beat VMI or Georgia at home. Correct me if I'm wrong (seriously), but if you can play tough against stronger teams, shouldn't you be able to carry that over to weaker opponents? To me, failure to bring that same consistent level of intensity lies with the coach, not the talent (or lack thereof).
Patience while the coach brings in his own style of players is one thing. Asking fans to accept humiliating losses for the purpose of killing time until his recruits make it out of high school might be too much, though. I'm anxious to see some of his recruits. In the meantime, I'd like to see him motivate his current players and bring out their best. Good coaches can win with great players. Great coaches take lesser talent and turns them into winners.
WVRed
03-05-2009, 06:46 PM
For those who didn't click the link WillyMo posted:
The Georgia loss was hard. There is no doubt about it. But nobody said this was going to be easy.
Well, truth be told, we all have kind of gotten a bit ahead of ourselves. It's clear to me at this point that our "blue tinted glasses" and late seaon success of 07-08 created expectations that just are not going to be met.
I think it's time to take a UNBIASED look at where we are and how we got there.
The logical start is Tubby's departure. For the final few years of Tubby's coaching tenure, the lack of talent entering the program took a noticable dive. Popular opinions of the cause for the decline include "Tubby hated recruiting", "assistants were horrible" and "Style of play" to name just just a few. While all may have some level of validity, I'm not sure the reason matters. It's clear the talent wasn't coming in droves.
Move forward to Billy Gillispies arrival on campus. Some tend to believe that you show up, make a call and get the top players in the nation to come to UK because of the name on the jersey. Unfortunately, it has never worked that way, and it's even less accurate to think that way in today's world.
Having well over a decade of working in basketball recruiting, I can assure you that it takes 2 years before your efforts start to really pay off with recruits and 3-4 before the product on the court benefits. The fact that Gillispie has been able to overhaul the roster as well as he has up till this point has been impressive to say the least.
Then we have last season. UK fans have never been patient, and installing a new system at UK was not going to be easy under the Big Blue spotlight. Kentucky fans were not patient as UK came out struggling to comprehend and fill their roles. But, an amazing thing happened, something clicked to give UK fans hope.
Seniors.
Yeah, that's the ticket. Last year's UK team had two players who, according ot most fans, had never really lived up to their lofty expectations. However, under Billy Gillispie, and his intense demands on conditioning and execution, Bradley and Crawford blossomed and are remembered today as fan favorites due to the last half of the season.
Now we move on to this season.
For most teams, when you lose 3 of your top 4 scorers/players (Bradley, Crawford, Jasper) and return a sophomore and freshman who were both injured a good portion of the previous year, you don't expect much. Most teams aren't UK.
Looking back, it's clear to see that the success of both Meeks and Patterson as individual players raised expectations to much higher levels. I know it did for me. Meeks and Pat both have been nationally recognized for their level of play for much of the season. Too bad basketball takes more than two great players.
Don't get me wrong, I love having both guys, and without them, I don't know what UK fans would do. It's just that for all the good they do, they can't do it all.
If that sounds like I'm down on the rest of the team, I'm not. It's just that every other supporting member is either very young or doesn't fit what Billy Gillispie wants and needs from his players.
So with that, we get to the major point of contention for UK fans. "Billy Gillispie needs to adjust his play to the kids on his roster". Let's talk about that.
Remember the impressive youth we talked about coming in earlier than you generally expect? Players like Darius Miller, DeAndre Liggins, Matt Pilgrim and Josh Harrellson? Those are the players that Billy Gillispie is concentrating on. Those are the players who HAVE to know exactly what is expected of them to be the future LEADERS of this team.
There, I said it. Leaders. For all the great things Meeks and Patterson do, they don't have complimentary players that are able to step up just yet. Porter is playing out of his position and while his effort is always there, he is not as physically gifted as those he attempts to match up against. Perry Stevenson has times where he is effective, but then will "go dark" for long stretches at a time. Ramon Harris would be a perfect defesive specialist on a team with four other players who can score, but not so much with only two.
So, what do you do as a coach? Do you sacrifice teaching your young talent in a consistent manner? Do you abandon what you KNOW will win ballgames at the highest level just to POTENTIALLY eek out a few extra wins this season? Do you give up what got you to this level as a coach?
As a fan who is tired of being abused by rival fans, I might say yes. As a professional basketball scout who understands that building a program is the key to continued and sustainable success, I say no.
I know nobody wants to hear this, but UK fans got ahead of themselves. In many ways, the second half success of last year was fools gold. It was sparked by senior leaders who finally understood what it took to live up to their potential. To this day, if you ask those two guys what they think of Billy Gillispie, they will offer heaps of praise and thanks to the coach they feel made a huge impact in their life. That's not by accident.
If you take a hard look at this season, you see a team that is all over the place. One half they are great, the next half they look lost. They play with intensity for 5 minutes and then fall asleep for 10. You know what that is a sign of? A young team.
Fans are up in arms over the substition of the majority of starters in the second half of UK's home loss to Georgia. I have to admit that I was baffled for a bit as Georgia took a big lead in a matter of minutes. However, once those starters came back into the game, they played with the intensity and urgency of an inspired team......for a few minutes. As much as fans hate to admit it, the substution worked until they forgot to keep playing hard.
Next year will be the first year that UK fans will be able to start to judge Billy Gillispie. He will have more experienced players in Miller and Liggins as well as the arrival of Matt Pilgrim who has a year of experience with Coach Gillispie.The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.
Daniel Orton will make an impact as a freshman in the post and Jon Hood will be asked to make some shots from time to time. GJ Vilarino has the skill set to be the PG of the future for the Cats & UK is almost certain to bring in another 2009 guard.
The bad news? Patterson is now almost certain to go pro. Meeks will test the waters and is hoping his stock will improve during his workouts for NBA teams. If he can get into the first round, he will leave as well.
This is nothing to be surprised about, honestly. If Patterson were to stay, the arrival of Pilgrim and Orton would threaten to limit his touches even more. Having nearly fully recovered from his injuries, risking more next season would be a risk that Patterson may not wish to take.
While Meeks does have parts of his game to work on, it's clear that next year wouldn't be the same statistically for Meeks. Just look at how he's been defended the past month if you want an idea of what would happen to him next year. While it's not as certain for Meeks (should not leave unless guaranteed to be first rounder), if he can perform well, he will go.I've said up until now that I felt both would return. That is no longer the case. I think Patterson is gone and Meeks is hoping he can make the first round and go. Don't fret. Pilgrim and Orton are capable replacements for Patterson (yeah, I know it sounds strange, but they are). And having a more balanced attack from the perimeter might serve UK well next year. Miller will be able to step up and Galloway and Liggins will be a year older and wiser.
This year is not over. I hope the fans can get some perspective and not quit either. It's selfish in my opinion to just complain and not support your team. This team has not quit and they work harder than any fan and are more disappointed as well.
Marc Maggard
True Blue Kentucky
Why? So we can hear some more blind faith ramblings about the greatness of bg? ;) What is Maggard's resume anyway? He refers to himself as a professional basketball scout. That made me curious.
I don't think that was blind faith ramblings at all.
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 09:13 PM
I don't think that was blind faith ramblings at all. Does he admit that Gillispie has made mistakes? Has he ever admitted that?
Sea Ray
03-05-2009, 10:22 PM
Hey UK fans. Let's hear it for the Tenn Vols who won the SEC East tonight with a clutch win over SC. Like UK, UT is also going through a rebuilding year but to their credit they appear to be peaking at the right time.
It does appear that UK matches up well against them and if I was a UK fan I'd want to draw Tenn in the SEC tournament.
dabvu2498
03-05-2009, 11:08 PM
Hey UK fans. Let's hear it for the Tenn Vols who won the SEC East tonight with a clutch win over SC. Like UK, UT is also going through a rebuilding year but to their credit they appear to be peaking at the right time. It does appear that UK matches up well against them and if I was a UK fan I'd want to draw Tenn in the SEC tournament. Winning the SEC East this year is kinda like winnin the Big 10 in football... used to mean more than it does now. Then again, when you ain't used to winning em... guess you take what you can get.
WVRed
03-06-2009, 01:29 AM
Why? So we can hear some more blind faith ramblings about the greatness of bg? ;) What is Maggard's resume anyway? He refers to himself as a professional basketball scout. That made me curious.
If you read my post earlier about "internet sources", Marc Maggard was who I was primarily referring to.
I like TBK and the people who post there. I wouldn't compare it to Redszone by any stretch (if I had kids, I wouldn't let them read some of the stuff on there), but I think you could make the point that these "insiders" are proof of how Gillispie has no control of the locker room.
If you read my post earlier about "internet sources", Marc Maggard was who I was primarily referring to.
I like TBK and the people who post there. I wouldn't compare it to Redszone by any stretch (if I had kids, I wouldn't let them read some of the stuff on there), but I think you could make the point that these "insiders" are proof of how Gillispie has no control of the locker room.
Oh please, WV, that's lame. There's not a program in the nation in football or basketball that's popular like Kentucky who are without more than their fair share of "Insiders" who talk about what is going on inside the program.
I'll tell you one thing... An Insider posting a tidbit about what is going on with the team does a hell of a lot less harm to the program than a jack-donkey blogger putting up polls asking if a coach should be fired in his 2nd season.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 01:44 AM
If you read my post earlier about "internet sources", Marc Maggard was who I was primarily referring to. I like TBK and the people who post there. I wouldn't compare it to Redszone by any stretch (if I had kids, I wouldn't let them read some of the stuff on there), but I think you could make the point that these "insiders" are proof of how Gillispie has no control of the locker room. And journalisticly speaking, when you profit from those kind of sources, you become beholden to them. Tick them off (by bad mouthing their sources/friends/bosses), you lose them as sources. It becomes a dangerous game to be "fair and balanced."
And journalisticly speaking, when you profit from those kind of sources, you become beholden to them. Tick them off (by bad mouthing their sources/friends/bosses), you lose them as sources. It becomes a dangerous game to be "fair and balanced."
TBK is unabashedly pro-UK. If Insider Info is going to hurt the program it isn't posted. The site's not interested in journalistic integrity in some sort of overarching sense of the term. It's not the Washington Post. There's a reason they allow constructive criticism but not bashing and that's why they get my patronage.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 01:49 AM
I'll tell you one thing... An Insider posting a tidbit about what is going on with the team does a hell of a lot less harm to the program than a jack-donkey blogger putting up polls asking if a coach should be fired in his 2nd season. Depends on the tidbit. If some moron posts something most folks know it is from a moron. But when you annoint someone an "insider"... And sometime the 1st leads to the 2nd in your scenario.
Depends on the tidbit. If some moron posts something most folks know it is from a moron. But when you annoint someone an "insider"... And sometime the 1st leads to the 2nd in your scenario.
Agreed, appointing folks as Insiders willy nilly would be a sure-fire recipe for disaster.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 01:58 AM
TBK is unabashedly pro-UK. If Insider Info is going to hurt the program it isn't posted. The site's not interested in journalistic integrity in some sort of overarching sense of the term. It's not the Washington Post. There's a reason they allow constructive criticism but not bashing and that's why they get my patronage. People do pay (a decent amount) for subscriptions there, right? They do try to "scoop" ahead of the traditional media, right? Perhaps a bit of journalistic integrity would help provide a truer picture of the program. Otherwise, you get an echo chamber.
People do pay (a decent amount) for subscriptions there, right? They do try to "scoop" ahead of the traditional media, right? Perhaps a bit of journalistic integrity would help provide a truer picture of the program. Otherwise, you get an echo chamber.
I don't think getting "scoops" is the goal at all. It's more about cutting through all the crap you read at sites like TCP and giving folks an accurate view of what's going on with the program. Like I said, they allow criticism just fine, but they're not going to release info just to get a scoop.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 02:07 AM
I don't think getting "scoops" is the goal at all. It's more about cutting through all the crap you read at sites like TCP and giving folks an accurate view of what's going on with the program. Like I said, they allow criticism just fine, but they're not going to release info just to get a scoop. Why turn it in to a money maker then? They lose their scoops, they lose their subscribers. The insiders can use the site as a mouthpiece for whatever points they wish to advance.
Why turn it in to a money maker then? They lose their scoops, they lose their subscribers. The insiders can use the site as a mouthpiece for whatever points they wish to advance.
MM's explanation is that the fees exist to help defray the cost of running and hosting the site (no pledge drives like on RZ, haha) as well as allow MM to justify taking time away from his other businesses to run the site. He does podcasts, blogs etc. etc. ... I bet he spends 6 hours a day on there easy.
Believe me though, I understand your point. I just understand his as well. I think it's well worth the $10/month and I really love the goal of the site and it's stance towards how posters should "talk" about the school and players that they supposedly love. The vitriol on sites like KSR and TCP absolutely turns my stomach.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 02:17 AM
MM's explanation is that the fees exist to help defray the cost of running and hosting the site as well as allow MM to justify taking time away from his other businesses to run the site. He does podcasts, blogs etc. etc. ... I bet he spends 6 hours a day on there easy. Believe me though, I understand your point. I just understand his as well. I think it's well worth the $10/month and I really love the goal of the site and it's stance towards how posters should "talk" about the school and players that they supposedly love. The vitriol on sites like KSR and TCP absolutely turns my stomach. I can understand why they would charge. It just changes the entire dynamic, and the site's responsibilities. Imagine if rz was run the way tbk is. We would have all been kicked off a long time ago... unless we were paying members.
I can understand why they would charge. It just changes the entire dynamic, and the site's responsibilities. Imagine if rz was run the way tbk is. We would have all been kicked off a long time ago... unless we were paying members.
How do you figure that? The "premium" board is only a part of the entire board ... plenty of folks post only on the main "Free" board.
TCP has Rupp's Raftards and House of Retards (pay portion). :D
Interesting thread somewhat related to our discussion, dab: http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/forums/2-true-blue-hoops/313062-why-are-you-a-member-at-true-blue-kentucky-please-read-first-post-before-replying.html
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 02:22 AM
Furthering that thought... Let's say Brandon Phillips' best friend started posting here. Posted good juicy stuff. Rz decides to isolate this kind of stuff in a seperate area and makes us pay for it... That gets ugly quick.
Furthering that thought... Let's say Brandon Phillips' best friend started posting here. Posted good juicy stuff. Rz decides to isolate this kind of stuff in a seperate area and makes us pay for it... That gets ugly quick.
Agreed.
I think it helps tremendously that the sources are anonymous to the members.
It would be important for that source to know that whatever their agreement was to provide such information, the posters on RZ would still be critical of their brother at times but that the ownership wouldn't allow the criticism to turn into outright bashing.
I agree that it's an interesting line and a potentially precarious one. I think they do a good job straddling that line at TBK, however. There's plenty of criticism.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 02:28 AM
Interesting thread somewhat related to our discussion, dab: http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/forums/2-true-blue-hoops/313062-why-are-you-a-member-at-true-blue-kentucky-please-read-first-post-before-replying.html Sure. He is going to use those testimonials to try to sell more subscriptions.
Sure. He is going to use those testimonials to try to sell more subscriptions.
Hopefully enough to put TCP out of business. :D
I assume you saw that he specifically asked for both premium and non-premium members to post their impressions of TBK. A glowing recommendation from a non-premium member who is wholly satisfied without being a premium subscriber goes against your purported goal of what he is doing, doesn't it?
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 02:34 AM
Agreed. I think it helps tremendously that the sources are anonymous to the members. It would be important for that source to know that whatever their agreement was to provide such information, the posters on RZ would still be critical of their brother at times but that the ownership wouldn't allow the criticism to turn into outright bashing. I agree that it's an interesting line and a potentially precarious one. I think they do a good job straddling that line at TBK, however. There's plenty of criticism. I don't see much. And that which I have seen usually gets shouted down pretty quick. Maybe it is like rz! ;) Granted, I don't spend much time there.
I don't see much. And that which I have seen usually gets shouted down pretty quick. Maybe it is like rz! ;) Granted, I don't spend much time there.
:lol:
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 02:39 AM
Hopefully enough to put TCP out of business. :D I assume you saw that he specifically asked for both premium and non-premium members to post their impressions of TBK. A glowing recommendation from a non-premium member who is wholly satisfied without being a premium subscriber goes against your purported goal of what he is doing, doesn't it? It all depends on what you're looking for. If you want a place to make you feel better about the current mess, yeah, it is fine. If you're looking for real discussion, I would look elsewhere, honestly.
It all depends on what you're looking for. If you want a place to make you feel better about the current mess, yeah, it is fine. If you're looking for real discussion, I would look elsewhere, honestly.
You really don't have an accurate picture of what's being posted over there, IMO.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 03:04 AM
You really don't have an accurate picture of what's being posted over there, IMO. In the last day or two there was a fairly reasonable post about whether or not they should play a zone d from time to time. I thought it was a valid question. The first few posts were about "idiots" and people not understanding what bg was trying to do. I couldn't go any further. Not quality discussion.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 03:09 AM
I also hate all the back and forth between the sites. Of course, that exists because they are competing for subscribers! But enough complaining from me about a website. Back to complaining about the coach!
In the last day or two there was a fairly reasonable post about whether or not they should play a zone d from time to time. I thought it was a valid question. The first few posts were about "idiots" and people not understanding what bg was trying to do. I couldn't go any further. Not quality discussion.
I think it's a valid question too.
I'd say that that question got shouted down like it did b/c there's seemingly a couple threads on that very topic every week. It's sort of like talking about Willy Taveras' on base percentage over here. :D In other words, it's been done to death 1000 times before.
Sea Ray
03-06-2009, 10:13 AM
Winning the SEC East this year is kinda like winnin the Big 10 in football... used to mean more than it does now. Then again, when you ain't used to winning em... guess you take what you can get.
The SEC is as bad as I can remember this year but I'll take it. I'm not so sure the Vols aren't used to winning it. I seem to recall they won it last year
It's sort of like talking about Willy Taveras' on base percentage over here. :D In other words, it's been done to death 1000 times before.
What's wrong with Willy T's OBP? :p:
Good discussion on here guys. Some interesting takes on both sides.
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 11:18 AM
The SEC is as bad as I can remember this year but I'll take it. I'm not so sure the Vols aren't used to winning it. I seem to recall they won it last year Blue moons do happen.
cumberlandreds
03-06-2009, 12:10 PM
Has anyone taken a gander at UK's latest RPI? It's a robust 78. Ouch! There's no way they are making the NCAA's as an at-large. I don't think a win over Florida and a win or two in the SEC is going to do it either. It's SEC Tourney champs or it will be NIT time,IMO.
IslandRed
03-06-2009, 01:36 PM
EVERYONE please read this.
http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/basketball/926-guest-basketball/813-the-day-after-state-of-uk-basketball.html
I don't disagree with some of the things in that article, but I find it interesting that the storyline has gone 180 degrees. The primary narrative of his hiring was about his brilliance as an instant-turnaround artist, the guy who was supposed to be able to do more with less, and then recruiting would be the cherry on top. Now it's about methodical program-building?
I don't disagree with some of the things in that article, but I find it interesting that the storyline has gone 180 degrees. The primary narrative of his hiring was about his brilliance as an instant-turnaround artist, the guy who was supposed to be able to do more with less, and then recruiting would be the cherry on top. Now it's about methodical program-building?
That's my area of concern. It's almost like we're supposed to wait 4 years until Gillispie gets his type of players on the team. However, I want to see him coach what he's got now, not complain about the hand he's been dealt.
- His first year at UTEP, his team went 6-24. The next year, they finished 24-8, won the WAC, and got a NCAA tourney bid.
- At Texas A&M, his first year there saw a 21-10 record (although boosted by a very weak non-conference schedule as requested by Billy G...as he's now requesting at UK.) They finished that first year 8-8 in the conference when they were winless the previous year without Billy G. In his second year there, the Aggies became a ranked team. In his 3rd year there, they were ranked in the top 10.
The fact that UK is going backwards this year is what makes me wonder if he's the right fit.
TeamSelig
03-06-2009, 03:22 PM
I think maybe he (or someone?) goofed on the recruiting. When I watch UK, I'm not seeing any potential stars, as far as our younger guys are concerned. They are sloppy, raw, and it doesn't seem like they are improving much if at all. Although, I will be the first to admit I haven't got a chance to watch alot of UK basketball this year, so I may be a little off on my assumption.
I just don't see a lot of talent.
Boston Red
03-06-2009, 04:05 PM
If Patterson and Meeks both go pro (which I think is unlikely, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility), is there ANY hope for next year's UK team? I'm not sure BG can survive two bad seasons in a row (following up on a mediocre one).
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 04:08 PM
I've always enjoyed this thought... If BG makes it through 4 years at UK, it will be the longest he has stayed in one place his entire career, as a high school or assistant included.
cumberlandreds
03-06-2009, 04:20 PM
I think maybe he (or someone?) goofed on the recruiting. When I watch UK, I'm not seeing any potential stars, as far as our younger guys are concerned. They are sloppy, raw, and it doesn't seem like they are improving much if at all. Although, I will be the first to admit I haven't got a chance to watch alot of UK basketball this year, so I may be a little off on my assumption.
I just don't see a lot of talent.
Miller is improving slowly but surely. He's going to be a good one. Liggins doesn't get it and I'm not sure he will. At this point I'm not sure he will be back next season. Then after Patterson and Meeks its role players. Like I've said before BG better be praying every night Patterson and Meeks come back next year or next year is going to be a lot like this one and maybe not that good.
macro
03-06-2009, 05:56 PM
Has anyone taken a gander at UK's latest RPI? It's a robust 78. Ouch! There's no way they are making the NCAA's as an at-large. I don't think a win over Florida and a win or two in the SEC is going to do it either. It's SEC Tourney champs or it will be NIT time,IMO.
As well it should be. UK certainly doesn't deserve a bid at this point.
UK is currently the #2 team out in Joey Brackets' latest Bracketology. If they beat Florida and win two games in the SECT they'll get a bid. The Committee will look for a reason to PUT UK in the tournament, NOT find a way to exclude them, especially in this economy.
joshnky
03-06-2009, 06:04 PM
UK is currently the #2 team out in Joey Brackets' latest Bracketology. If they beat Florida and win two games in the SECT they'll get a bid. The Committee will look for a reason to PUT UK in the tournament, NOT find a way to exclude them, especially in this economy.
You may be right but we're told time and time again that name and conference affiliation doesn't matter to the committee. However, given the state of the other bubble teams, I think your scenario may be enough to get them in depending on who they play. A three game win streak against FLA, loser team, and LSU would be enough but FLA, loser team, and Auburn probably would require another win to make it in.
Of course, projections overlook the inevitable conference tournament upsets that shrink the number of bubble spots available. I would imagine UK fans won't breath easily unless they finish with a four game winning streak making the conference finals.
You may be right but we're told time and time again that name and conference affiliation doesn't matter to the committee. However, given the state of the other bubble teams, I think your scenario may be enough to get them in depending on who they play. A three game win streak against FLA, loser team, and LSU would be enough but FLA, loser team, and Auburn probably would require another win to make it in.
Of course, projections overlook the inevitable conference tournament upsets that shrink the number of bubble spots available. I would imagine UK fans won't breath easily unless they finish with a four game winning streak making the conference finals.
That's all true.
Lots of basketball to be played that could either enlarge the bubble or shrink it considerably...
This may be viewed as heresy by some, but going to the NIT wouldn't be the absolute worst thing to happen to this team (or some in this fanbase). It could be an excellent spring board for our young team heading into next season...
of course I'd still rather make the Big Dance...
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 06:12 PM
This may be viewed as heresy by some, but going to the NIT wouldn't be the absolute worst thing to happen to this team (or some in this fanbase). Heretic!
joshnky
03-06-2009, 07:31 PM
This may be viewed as heresy by some, but going to the NIT wouldn't be the absolute worst thing to happen to this team (or some in this fanbase). It could be an excellent spring board for our young team heading into next season...
Louisville went through the same thing three years ago. That was Terrence Williams' and Andre McGee's freshman season and they both mentioned the NIT game at home as one of their most memorable home experiences, FWIW. I'm not sure how much it helped their development but it certainly didn't hurt. And as a fan it is at least enjoyable to watch your team play a few more games.
Of course, UK fans got a LOT of mileage out of that NIT team. I'm sure UofL fans are looking forward to returning the favor. ;) We'll have to come up with something creative comparable to the "you can't spell Pitino without NIT" joke.
Sea Ray
03-06-2009, 10:57 PM
Blue moons do happen.
Blue Moons never occur in back to back years
Sea Ray
03-06-2009, 11:00 PM
UK is currently the #2 team out in Joey Brackets' latest Bracketology. If they beat Florida and win two games in the SECT they'll get a bid.
I agree if they win three in a row they've got a shot but you've seen them play of late...do you think that team is capable of winning three in a row?
dabvu2498
03-06-2009, 11:12 PM
Blue Moons never occur in back to back years Ok... so every 3 years or so, right. UT has a way to go to catch up to the blue moon in that ratio.
Ok... so every 3 years or so, right. UT has a way to go to catch up to the blue moon in that ratio.
:lol:
C'mon dude, let the little guys have their fun.
WVRed
03-06-2009, 11:18 PM
Oh please, WV, that's lame. There's not a program in the nation in football or basketball that's popular like Kentucky who are without more than their fair share of "Insiders" who talk about what is going on inside the program.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I don't seem to remember a lot of "insiders" when Tubby was here. That tells me he did a better job of keeping matters in house and people who leaked the information knew they would be held accountable. I don't see that with Gillispie.
I'm not sure if you followed True Blue Kentucky since its inception, but I first started posting on Wildcat Insiders before they merged with Kentucky Ink. Of course you know TBK split from Kentucky Ink. If you have ever heard MM reference Greg Hoover (more than likely calling him out, and deservedly so), Wildcat Insiders was the website that he ran.
WVRed
03-06-2009, 11:21 PM
FWIW, Morehead State is one game away from winning the Ohio Valley Conference. My guess is they will play Austin Peay for the championship tomorrow.
I never thought I would see the day Morehead State would likely make the NCAA tournament and not Kentucky. If Kentucky does not get in, I do know who I am pulling for.:) (even though it will likely be a first round blowout against a UNC, Pitt, or UConn).
George Foster
03-06-2009, 11:58 PM
If Patterson and Meeks both go pro (which I think is unlikely, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility), is there ANY hope for next year's UK team? I'm not sure BG can survive two bad seasons in a row (following up on a mediocre one).
I have said this for 2 months. With the state of the program, and the utter hatred I am hearing from fans about Billy, my guess is that he bolts if Patterson and Meeks does not come back. He knows that his stock is down right now, but he can get another job. If they tank next year he is asking Coach Self for another job.
There is a reason why he has not signed a contract. He likes having the back door open. He has not stayed anywhere more than 3 years. Mitch Barnhart referred all questions about the contract to Billy's attorney. Barnhart said that the contract has been at Billy's attorney's office for "weeks."
I've been to every home game this year but one. I can't figure this guy out. I think he was just the "hot" coach in 07 and Mitch drunk the Cool-Aid.
We are not a final-4 team or even a sweet-sixteen team but this team IS a NCAA team. If we don't go the reason rests totally in Billy's lap.
Sea Ray
03-07-2009, 12:02 AM
Ok... so every 3 years or so, right. UT has a way to go to catch up to the blue moon in that ratio.
Uk has a great basketball history but I'm not so sure their future looks any better than UT's. What do you think?
Sea Ray
03-07-2009, 12:03 AM
:lol:
C'mon dude, let the little guys have their fun.
Yeah, I enjoyed watching your celebrations of back to back Music City Bowl berths...:)
George Foster
03-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Uk has a great basketball history but I'm not so sure their future looks any better than UT's. What do you think?
Kentucky is Kentucky. Tennessee is a football school. Alabama was down for a long time when they picked bad coach after bad coach. Critics were saying, who would want to coach at Alabama? Those fans are crazy, they are unrealistic.
Well....I think Alabama got themselves a pretty good coach. We will too.
Tubby was a great coach. He just got a little lazy in recruiting and it really hurt him. He would not fire any of his assistant coaches, who were the main recruiters. Funny, he did not hire any of them to go to Minn.
I feel that if Tubby had kept the "fire in his belly" he could of stayed here forever. However, once you win a ring and have millions in the bank, it's hard to stay modivated. It's human nature. Going to Minn, a change of senery, can stur things up again and get you modivated.
dabvu2498
03-07-2009, 12:34 AM
Uk has a great basketball history but I'm not so sure their future looks any better than UT's. What do you think? I may have agreed if they had another year this like they did last. But for me it would be hard to brag about that 09 SEC East championship if I were a UT fan.
Yeah, I enjoyed watching your celebrations of back to back Music City Bowl berths...:)
What bowl did UT go to?
Keep coming into UK threads and trolling. You did it during football season and you've certainly showed yourself again during basketball season. I love when other SEC fans are still more concerned with UK than their own programs even when UK is having a down season. :D
I may have agreed if they had another year this like they did last. But for me it would be hard to brag about that 09 SEC East championship if I were a UT fan.
Especially in a freaking UK thread. :lol: What's UT's record versus Kentucky this season? :D
Kentucky is Kentucky. Tennessee is a football school. Alabama was down for a long time when they picked bad coach after bad coach. Critics were saying, who would want to coach at Alabama? Those fans are crazy, they are unrealistic.
Well....I think Alabama got themselves a pretty good coach. We will too.
Tubby was a great coach. He just got a little lazy in recruiting and it really hurt him. He would not fire any of his assistant coaches, who were the main recruiters. Funny, he did not hire any of them to go to Minn.
I feel that if Tubby had kept the "fire in his belly" he could of stayed here forever. However, once you win a ring and have millions in the bank, it's hard to stay modivated. It's human nature. Going to Minn, a change of senery, can stur things up again and get you modivated.
Coach Gillispie's not a quitter. All his moves have been of the upwardly mobile variety. He won't leave UK to be labeled as a "failure" on his own.
dabvu2498
03-07-2009, 03:56 PM
If I were watching this game as a member of the selection committee, I would have to say the neither team belongs in the tourney.
If I were watching this game as a member of the selection committee, I would have to say the neither team belongs in the tourney.
I would agree.
KronoRed
03-07-2009, 05:04 PM
Woo!
Maybe they will both play again in the NIT
;)
Woo!
Maybe they will both play again in the NIT
;)
Congrats on the win. Billy D pulled a really classy move there at the end, you could tell he was encouraging Billy G.
dab: Here's some criticism for ya: http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/forums/2-true-blue-hoops/314041-this-is-the-lowest-bball-iq-teams-ive-ever-seen-at-uk-ill-be-glad-when-its-over.html
dabvu2498
03-07-2009, 05:12 PM
Woo! Maybe they will both play again in the NIT ;) If they take 4 sec teams it will be out of sympathy to Mike Slive for having to watch that crap all year.
dabvu2498
03-07-2009, 05:20 PM
dab: Here's some criticism for ya: http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/forums/2-true-blue-hoops/314041-this-is-the-lowest-bball-iq-teams-ive-ever-seen-at-uk-ill-be-glad-when-its-over.html Turnovers are all on the players? Um... no! Hell no!
Sea Ray
03-07-2009, 10:45 PM
What bowl did UT go to?
Keep coming into UK threads and trolling. You did it during football season and you've certainly showed yourself again during basketball season. I love when other SEC fans are still more concerned with UK than their own programs even when UK is having a down season. :D
No such thing as trolling here. We're all members and as such are allowed to post in any thread.
My question concerned comparing basketball programs and you bring up football. That's very telling. If that's all the better you can come up with you might as well have stayed silent
Sea Ray
03-07-2009, 10:46 PM
I may have agreed if they had another year this like they did last. But for me it would be hard to brag about that 09 SEC East championship if I were a UT fan.
The 09 SEC championship is what it is and it beats going 8-8. I still can't tell from your response how you see UK's future.
dabvu2498
03-08-2009, 12:34 AM
The 09 SEC championship is what it is and it beats going 8-8. I still can't tell from your response how you see UK's future. My optimism is in a holding pattern. At best. I hope next year's signees are as good as advertised. But when you are banking on unknowns...
WVRed
03-08-2009, 12:43 AM
The good news is that a team from Kentucky is guaranteed to make the big dance.
http://www.campusexplorer.com/media/376x262/Morehead-State-University-CEE19AA7.png
Morehead State REPRESENT!
:p:
No such thing as trolling here. We're all members and as such are allowed to post in any thread.
My question concerned comparing basketball programs and you bring up football. That's very telling. If that's all the better you can come up with you might as well have stayed silent
You don't seem to understand the definition of trolling.
Coming into a UK thread and telling UK fans to "give it up for Tennessee" is trolling.
I didn't bring up football, I brought up your behavior in the UK football thread.
dabvu2498
03-08-2009, 01:21 AM
The good news is that a team from Kentucky is guaranteed to make the big dance. http://www.campusexplorer.com/media/376x262/Morehead-State-University-CEE19AA7.png First time since the days of Dick Fick?
First time since the days of Dick Fick?
Great name. :D
Boston Red
03-08-2009, 07:36 AM
First time since the days of Dick Fick?
Dick Fick never made it. He was colorful, and he drank himself to death, but his teams were never that good. Plus, Murray State ruled the OVC with an iron fist in those days.
WVRed
03-08-2009, 09:17 AM
It is a shame though that Kyle Macy never made it.
WVRed
03-08-2009, 09:24 AM
One positive is that Kentucky did do something right.
Nick Calathes 2/9 shooting, 5 points.
Sea Ray
03-08-2009, 10:41 AM
You don't seem to understand the definition of trolling.
Coming into a UK thread and telling UK fans to "give it up for Tennessee" is trolling.
I didn't bring up football, I brought up your behavior in the UK football thread.
You sure did bring up football. What did this comment have to do with my behavior?
What bowl did UT go to?
That comment references nothing about me or about basketball. Frankly it's a rather puzzling attempt on your part to change the subject to UT-UK football and I'd love to but I won't because it goes against my principles: I pick on people my own size. Arguably there's no greater mismatch in all of college football than UT-UK. Were you even out of diapers the last time UK beat the Vols on a football field?
I did kind of divert your rah, rah Ky Wildcat party but there's nothing wrong with that.
Your response to my posts are very telling. Being a Reds and Bengal fan, I have a lot of experience defending mediocre teams. You should have handled my comments with a response something like this:
Yes, your UT Vols turned it on at the end to win a very weak SEC East this year. Kudos to you, but watch out for our Wildcats in the conference tournament. We've got your number! ;)
That would have been the end of it. Instead you guys have given me immense entertainment by bringing up Bowl games, blue moons, trolls and pages and pages of comedy...hilarious :laugh:
dabvu2498
03-08-2009, 11:09 AM
Sea ray -- what were you looking for when you came in this thread? Looking to pick a spat? Or looking for affirmation that your program is no longer the worst in the SEC? Ok. Admitted. UT mens hoops is not a laugingstock anymore. You had to know that UK fan nerves would be jangled and your bragging may create a negative reaction and now you want to give us indignant sensitivity. No soup for you!!!
Sea Ray
03-08-2009, 12:53 PM
Sea ray -- what were you looking for when you came in this thread? Looking to pick a spat? Or looking for affirmation that your program is no longer the worst in the SEC? Ok. Admitted. UT mens hoops is not a laugingstock anymore. You had to know that UK fan nerves would be jangled and your bragging may create a negative reaction and now you want to give us indignant sensitivity. No soup for you!!!
When I post on sites like this I do it for one of two reasons. 90% of the time it's for entertainment purposes and occasionally it's for information. This instance falls in the former category and boy did you guys not disappoint. :thumbup:
Scrap Irony
03-08-2009, 03:54 PM
So you're basically admitting you came on here to start crap?
Classy, that.
joshnky
03-08-2009, 07:17 PM
90% of the time it's for entertainment purposes and occasionally it's for information. This instance falls in the former category and boy did you guys not disappoint. :thumbup:
Now that is the definition of trolling. Stay classy.
The UK/Ole Miss matchup is one of Jeff Goodman's "16 games to watch".
E4 Kentucky vs. W5 Ole Miss -- SEC quarterfinals
(Thursday, 1 p.m.) Not sure why this one intrigues me. I guess maybe because there's speculation it could be the final meaningful game for Billy Gillispie in Lexington. That's how bad it's gotten. The Wildcats need a Georgia-esque run in the SEC tourney to have a shot at going to the Big Dance.
Jeff Goodman deserves a beating. Epic UK hater.
Jeff Goodman deserves a beating. Epic UK hater.
:laugh: Tell me how you really feel WMR.
FTR, I didn't post that trying to "stir the pot". I just thought you guys might be interested. I honestly didn't know Goodman was an anti-UK guy.
He has the Florida/Arkansas game listed as well and mentions it's a must win for the Gators if they have any hope of making The Dance.
:laugh: Tell me how you really feel WMR.
FTR, I didn't post that trying to "stir the pot". I just thought you guys might be interested. I honestly didn't know Goodman was an anti-UK guy.
He has the Florida/Arkansas game listed as well and mentions it's a must win for the Gators if they have any hope of making The Dance.
No worries. I'm looking forward to the game as well. I'm like one of those battered women who keeps going back to her husband, I guess. :(
:D He's good for 2-3 anti-UK articles a year.
No worries. I'm looking forward to the game as well. I'm like one of those battered women who keeps going back to her husband, I guess. :(
:D He's good for 2-3 anti-UK articles a year.
I'm looking forward to this entire week. I love tournament basketball.
Here are the other SEC games on his list.
No. E3 Florida vs. No. W6 Arkansas -- SEC first round
(Thursday, 9:45 p.m.) Billy Donovan will need to beat his good buddy, John Pelphrey, to have any shot of getting back to the NCAA tournament. The Gators may need this one and also a victory against Auburn on Friday.
No. 2E South Carolina vs. UGA-Miss. St. winner -- SEC quarterfinals (Friday, 3:15 p.m.) The Gamecocks are on the right side of the bubble right now, but a loss to say, Georgia, could shift them to the other side.
There *SHOULD* be a lot of desperate teams playing in the SEC Tournament...
we'll see who actually plays that way.
I was a bit surprised to see South Carolina listed as a bubble team but sure enough, their RPI is 51 which would put them squarely on it. Florida's is 49 at the moment.
dabvu2498
03-10-2009, 04:29 PM
Jeff Goodman deserves a beating. Epic UK hater. Is he related to Earl? Anyway, I think they finally get off the schnide vs the Rebs.
Is he related to Earl? Anyway, I think they finally get off the schnide vs the Rebs.
Last time I made a prediction for a UK game I was dead wrong and probably jinxed the team. I'll refrain from making any during the SEC tourney.
WVRed
03-11-2009, 10:15 AM
Long article by Dana O'Neil from ESPN. She basically followed Kentucky from the Georgia and Florida games with her response.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=oneil_dana&id=3967418
LEXINGTON, Ky. -- She has blonde hair, wears a Kentucky-blue T-shirt and holds a small sign in her hand. It says, "Big Dance Here We Come.''
On the court beneath her end line seats, the Wildcats betray her presumption, losing to Georgia, 90-85. In the corner of Rupp Arena near the tunnel where the team exits, two university policemen snicker as the horn sounds.
"You think coach is going to be in a good mood?" one says.
"Nope. Just make sure you stay away from the flames,'' says the other.
"Well at least we can book the Holiday Inn for that NIT game,'' the first chuckles back.
This is the current state of Kentucky basketball, fractured between hope and derision and adrift in a sea of unfamiliarity.
Ordinarily these are giddy times in the Bluegrass State. For 17 consecutive years, UK fans have spent the early parts of March awaiting the mere formality of their NCAA bid, the only mystery being what exotic locale the committee would take them to.
Now the state is in dizzying disarray, unsure how to handle the possibility of a March without madness.
Asked what would happen if Kentucky didn't make the NCAA tournament, Tom Leach, native Kentuckian, lifelong fan and the Cats' radio play-by-play voice since 2001, pauses and then laughs, "Well, I just don't know. I really don't.''
While the Wildcats are caught in the crossfire and are a team trying desperately to maintain the facade of normalcy, four days with the program shows the transparency of that facade.
This is a team sinking under the albatross of scrutiny. Players sag under the heavy burden of a state's expectations and a program's glorious history books. In a situation desperate for a practical joke or a silly movie to cut the tension, there is nothing but the seriousness of basketball.
It is the coach's way of operating. A self-described basketball junkie who says he has "no balance" in his life, Billy Gillispie isn't one for small talk or normal social interaction. He sits alone on the team charter plane and bus, reading, sleeping or looking out the window. He is all basketball business, a man who ends each pregame session and film session with a "Let's go to work.''
And you know what? None of that would matter if the Cats were 24-7. But they are 19-12, and barring a miraculous run through the SEC tournament, destined for their first NIT appearance since 1979.
Once the $2.5 million man destined to save Big Blue Nation from the torture of nine consecutive NCAA tournaments without a Final Four, Gillispie instead has saddled himself with the double whammy of not winning enough and not doing enough to curry favor among the fan base. He is perceived as prickly, aloof and guarded, a lunch pail of bad personality traits in the fishbowl that is Kentucky basketball.
And people far more important than the ones typing on message boards have noticed.
"Here every word is isolated to the syllable, every gesture is interpreted and it gets to be a burden, but Billy is paid very well to be the coach at Kentucky and with that comes a responsibility,'' says athletic director Mitch Barnhart, who plans to have a heart-to-heart with his coach at season's end. "The coach at Kentucky is more well known than the governor, and you have to recognize that.''
Asked how he thought his coach was handling the pressure, Barnhart responds, "It's been difficult. We're not all perfect born into this. We have to be willing to make adjustments. We ask our players to make adjustments and we need to be willing to do the same thing. Self-examination and self-awareness are very important. After two years, we need to sit down and talk about what we need to do to get this program back to where we want it to be.''
Ask any Cats fan and he or she will tell you one thing: This sure as hell isn't where they want it to be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday evening, March 4, Lexington, Ky. -- Leach has just finished taping his pregame interview with Gillispie and grabs a chair in one of the "expensive seats" on the sidelines to talk Kentucky basketball.
Leach started his radio career at the age of 16 and by his senior year set his goal of becoming the voice of UK sports. He knows the team, knows the game and most of all knows the fan base.
"Tonight is do or die,'' Leach says. "You can't lose at home to Georgia. You need to at least split these last two games. If not? If not, then you'll have a very uncomfortable Big Blue Nation.''
Right now it is a festive nation. Things have not gone well for the Wildcats for a week, with back-to-back losses to South Carolina and LSU, but the NCAA tournament is still within reach and the game is at home.
Thirty minutes before tip, the team gathers in its neat-as-a-pin locker room, where Gatorade cups line a table as if set up with the help of a ruler and an assortment of chewing gum sits in military precision atop a trash can lid.
Assistant coach Jeremy Cox is the scout for Georgia. Cox followed Gillispie to Lexington after serving alongside him at Texas A&M for a season. He is a high-energy, staccato talker who manages to shoehorn a ton of information into just an eight-minute speech. Using three whiteboards built into the wooden work center at the front of the locker room, Cox goes over each Georgia player's tendencies, and the Bulldogs' offensive sets and defensive breakdowns.
"No. 20 is a shooter,'' Cox tells the Wildcats. "Don't miss an assignment on the ballscreens and dominate the boards.''
After he finishes, the players gather arm-in-arm in a circle for a prayer, huddle up with a 1-2-3 "Family" and head to the court. It is Senior Day and Kentucky's lone graduate-to-be, Jared Carter, is feted with the traditional ceremony that ends with the singing of "My Old Kentucky Home."
Afterward the team regroups inside the locker room. The whiteboards are covered with different information and Gillispie is talking.
"The season begins with this game,'' he concludes. "Let's go to work.''
There is no fire and brimstone, no rallying cries or even a "go get 'em" as the players huddle up in the darkened tunnel, break with another shout of "Family" and take the court to a thunderous ovation.
Two hours later, they leave to a cacophony of boos. Gillispie walks off the court alone, head bowed as one fan snidely yells, "Heckuva job, Billy. Heckuva job."
The impossible has happened. Georgia, a team that fired its coach five weeks ago, has two SEC wins and has won four times in 57 tries in Lexington, not only has beaten the Wildcats. The Bulldogs have all but torpedoed Kentucky's hopes of an NCAA bid.
UK will finish this season with six losses in front of the home crowd. Rick Pitino, who inherited a Kentucky team heading into the depths of probation, lost seven games at Rupp in eight years at the Wildcats' helm.
The Wildcats walk stoically down the hallway toward the locker room. On the other side of a blue curtain, the hooting and hollering of the celebratory Bulldogs only increases the sting.
The players sit alone for eight minutes. It is silent, monastery silent, vow-of-silence silent, the only noise provided by the hum of the heating unit. Gillispie and his staff meet in a private room. ESPN, which was allowed an all-access tour with the Wildcats, is asked to leave before he comes out.
Later, a university official says that Gillispie never spoke to his team except to tell the players what time practice was the next day.
For a regular-season game against a lousy opponent, the interview area is jammed, full of television cameras, print reporters, administrators, boosters and heaven knows who else. A woman with a pretty blue scarf tied in her hair cuts through the crowd and down a hallway. Tywanna Patterson is going to meet her son, Patrick, the Wildcats' top rebounder and second-leading scorer.
Among the litany of worries in Kentucky is whether Patterson and Jodie Meeks will be back next season, and interpreting Tywanna's words have become as much a sport as interpreting Gillispie's actions.
"Of course I'm frustrated, everyone is,'' she says. "I don't know what the problem is, but there is one. I can't put my finger on it. I thought we'd be better by now.''
There is plenty of conjecture to pick from. A radio host who rarely talks sports asks if Gillispie should be fired. The Louisville Courier-Journal reports that 20 of the 39 votes read on air say yes.
Mike Casey, who played alongside Dan Issel, recently joined Kenny Walker as ex-players voicing their displeasure with what they're seeing: "I hate to say it but a change has to be made and soon or we're going to lose what UK is all about,'' Casey told a fan Web site, aseaofblue.com.
What still needs to be done?
From the March 10 Bubble Insider: What remaining work must the main bubble teams do in order to get themselves some dancin' shoes? Bubble Insider
After the Georgia game, more than 11,000 people clog CatsPause.com, the UK kingpin of message boards, pointing to Gillispie's strange substitution patterns -- he subbed four players, including a walk-on, to start the second half and the Bulldogs promptly put together a 10-0 run -- as a key to the loss.
What seems most obvious is the joylessness surrounding the team. The air seemed thick with the pressure of expectation even before the game began.
"It disappoints me to see these guys hurting right now,'' Barnhart reflects. "The smiles have left their faces. This game is supposed to be fun and it doesn't look fun to me right now.''
Someone more central to the tragic play unfolding here agrees.
"We're not having fun right now,'' Patrick Patterson tells a handful of reporters in the media room. "We have to find a way to get the fun back.''
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday morning, March 5, Lexington, Ky. -- It is amazing how the same song can sound so different in just a little more than 12 hours. At 7:30 p.m., with 24,000 voices singing and a team standing arm in arm to thank a senior, "My Old Kentucky Home" is a celebratory ode to all things UK.
At 9:30 a.m., when played as part of a "highlight" package from the Wildcats' loss to Georgia for a taping of "The Billy Gillispie Show," it sounds like a dirge.
Today, WKYT sports anchor Rob Bromley has the unenviable task of revisiting a loss UK's coach would like to forget and posing difficult questions that need to be asked.
Gillispie sits through the review of the UGA loss and patiently goes over what went wrong until Bromley, in a carefully worded question, asks how Gillispie responds to charges that he's lost his team.
Though the smile never leaves his face, Gillispie pointedly tells Bromley there is nothing he can do when "you have already formed your opinion.'' During a break when the cameras are off, Bromley tries to explain that he wasn't speaking for himself, but his attempt to break down the semantics has no effect on Gillispie. He sticks to his point: He doesn't care about people who already have formed their opinions.
There is no doubt that Gillispie is a tough nut to crack. He says he has a small circle that he keeps close, rarely letting outsiders in. It's probably not a bad way to be when your every muscle tick is dissected. But while Gillispie's need for privacy is understandable, his standoffish behavior is hard to comprehend. He has been brusque with the media, both local and national, and his rude dismissals of ESPN sideline reporter Jeannine Edwards have been a hot topic in Kentucky.
He is not one to engage in small talk with anyone, brushing into and out of meeting rooms, locker rooms and breakfast rooms with a purposeful stride. This behavior probably didn't register much at his previous head coaching stops in El Paso (UTEP) and College Station (Texas A&M), but it jumps off the Richter scale in a Kentucky mired in a basketball debacle.
Gillispie says he doesn't grow tired of the ceaseless questions about his decisions or job security and that he has no complaints about his job, calling UK the "best place in the world to coach.''
"A lot of folks, a lot of people who aren't in the arena, have all the answers,'' he said in the lone sit-down interview he gave ESPN.com during its four-day all-access span. "I'm the same with some things. I'm a diehard Dallas Cowboys fan and when the Cowboys lose or do something, I have all the answers.
"What I don't have is any information. It's the same here. People have all of the answers and none of the information. They want to overanalyze everything and not get anything done. To me the only thing you can do is get back to work, so that's what I do.''
Work begins at 3:30 p.m. on the practice court at the Craft Center. Whatever Gillispie didn't say in the postgame locker room, he is saying now. For 30 minutes he stands in the middle of his players and talks. He doesn't raise his voice, so it is impossible to hear what he is saying, though a few words -- competitive, challenge -- do ring out as his players uncomfortably shuffle their weight from one foot to the next.
After practice, finally there is levity. Gillispie goes to talk to a visiting friend on the sideline and the players mess around, trying to outdunk one another or make crazy shots. Patterson busts a few dance moves while filming a shout-out to DanceBlue, the Kentucky charity dance marathon that begins Friday night.
Perhaps the only two people getting a pass in Kentucky right now are Patterson and Meeks. The two have carried the Wildcats this season, accounting for 55 percent of UK's offense. Meeks, the prolific scorer, is pleasant but quiet, leaving Patterson, the engaging big man, as the go-to person for the pulse of UK hoops.
He is from West Virginia, not borne into the meaning of Kentucky basketball. But after two years of wearing the jersey, he has come to understand it well.
"It's like playing for Team USA. You've got the entire state right in your ear and they don't care,'' Patterson says. "I always say it's a love-hate relationship. They love us, but they sure do hate us sometimes. My friends call up and say, 'What's the big deal? So you're struggling a little bit.' I tell them, 'Man you don't understand. This is Kentucky.'"
The thing about Kentucky, you can't escape what you're expected to do nor can you hide from a sense of underachieving. First there are the numbers, historical facts that spill off the tongue of Kentuckians with such ease that you think UK basketball must be taught along with reading, writing and arithmetic in the elementary schools.
Kentucky is: No. 1 in all-time wins (1,985), No. 1 in NCAA tournament appearances (50), No. 1 in NCAA tournament games (145), No. 1 in NCAA tournament wins (100), No. 1 in Associated Press poll No. 1 finishes (eight) and No. 1 in SEC titles (43), winning more than the other 11 teams combined. There are also those seven national championships and 13 Final Four appearances.
Then there are the daily reminders that smack the current crop of Wildcats in the face every day. When they cross the street from the Joe B. Hall Wildcat Lodge into the Craft Center, they enter a lobby lined with photographs of UK All-Americans. The photos stop at 2003, with Keith Bogans.
They walk across a floor dotted with a checkerboard logo. Called the pattern of excellence, each square houses a number representing a year Kentucky won a national championship: 48, 49, 51, 58, 78, 96, 98. There's an empty blue square where the next championship is supposed to go.
"I thought I was prepared for all of this,'' says freshman Darius Miller, who grew up on the Ohio border town of Maysville, Ky. "And then I got here and I realized I wasn't. I can't explain it. You have to experience it.''
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday afternoon, March 6, Lexington, Ky., and Gainesville, Fla. -- In two days of practice, Gillispie hasn't revealed himself to be a yeller. He is more a sniper, a guy with a biting tongue who can make his point without ever inserting a curse word.
Far edgier in this practice, he reacts to a lazy lob pass with a "That's the difference between being 11-4 and 8-7 right now,'' and sarcastically asks a player if he's ready to hustle now.
The Cats go hard for a good two hours -- Gillispie squats at midcourt as the team sprints past in a full-court drill, but doesn't even blink as the bodies fly by -- before hurrying out to catch the charter flight to Florida.
Not surprisingly, Kentucky is a team afforded all of the luxuries of the biggest of big-time programs. The Craft Center is a 2-year-old, $30 million testimony to the might of UK basketball, a private men's and women's facility that requires a key fob swipe to access certain areas.
Off the end of the practice court is a Cats fan's nirvana, a closet overflowing with gear: T-shirts of every size, color and style.
Eight managers attend to the players' and coaches' every need, running madly at practice and popping up like jack-in-the-boxes whenever the team bus stops to make sure that every bag is unloaded.
As the team boards the bus for the airport, boxed lunches sit lined up on the sidewalk, each labeled with a player's name. At the airport, the travel party is greeted by managers who hand out boarding passes, and though this flight is going out of the main terminal, necessitating the inconveniences of TSA security, the Kentucky party travels through a security line reserved just for them.
On board the plane, water bottles wait in each seat pocket, players sit one person to two seats and flight attendants offer an assortment of snacks -- Doritos, mixed nuts, peanut M&Ms and Kit Kats -- plus a variety of Gatorade drinks.
It is the lap of luxury, a place to sit back, relax and forget the troubles of the bluegrass as the plane gains altitude.
Or not.
About halfway into the flight the pilot comes over the speaker to update his passengers on their trip.
"We're about 40 minutes outside of Gainesville, flying over Athens, Georgia, right now,'' he intones.
Athens, Georgia, home to the University of Georgia.
Even the friendly skies offer no escape.
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Saturday, March 7, Gainesville, Fla. -- His workout completed, Mitch Barnhart took a one-mile walk to a nearby Starbucks to clear his head. As he headed down the street in a baseball cap, shorts and T-shirt, an SUV drove by, stopped and banged a U-turn in the street. [+] EnlargeAP Photo/Ed Reinke
Times were happier back in April 2007, when UK AD Mitch Barnhart introduced Billy Gillespie as Tubby Smith's replacement.
As the car turned, Barnhart glimpsed at the license plate -- the Florida plates were set in a University of Kentucky frame.
"When I was at Oregon State, no one came into the coffee shop to ask me what was wrong with my teams,'' said Barnhart, who worked for four years in Corvallis before coming to Kentucky -- the first UK athletic director since 1934 to be hired without having any Kentucky ties, as it was noted in the press release to announce his hire. "It's not that they didn't care, it was just different. This is intense. This is the lifeblood of the state. This is something that has bonded this state for more than 100 years and they're hurting right now. And I feel their pain.''
Right now the commonwealth isn't terribly interested in empathy. It wants action. There are rumors that powerful people have jingled the AD's phone, calling for Gillispie's job.
If he is planning a bold move, Barnhart doesn't let on. He says he plans to meet with Gillispie at season's end for what he admits could be a delicate conversation, the implication that the discussion will be more about behavior than wins and losses.
Before Oregon State, Barnhart spent 12 years in the athletic department at the University of Tennessee, where the rabidity of expectations eventually swallowed up and spit out Phillip Fulmer. He knows well what UK people want and what the UK program is failing to deliver.
"People tell me I'm not from here so I don't understand, and that really bothers me,'' Barnhart says. "No one takes on a job that includes Kentucky basketball intending to lose. Part of what attracted me to this job, I was looking forward to the Final Four. That was one thing I hadn't enjoyed in my career and I'm still waiting. Trust me, there have been many sleepless nights trying to figure out how to get to that spot.''
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This isn't the route Barnhart is searching for.
Florida, led by Billy Donovan, the man Kentucky openly courted but couldn't woo two years ago, wins an ugly game, 60-53.
Patterson misses easy layups, Miller turns the ball over six times and Meeks makes just 6 of 18 shots, mistakes that easily can be interpreted as a team playing tighter than the insides of a super-ball.
It's a team that in January lost on a last-second, 25-foot shot to a Louisville squad that was crowned Big East regular-season champs on the same day the Wildcats lost what was practically an at-large elimination game at Florida (and don't think that doesn't stick in the craw of the UK faithful).
It's a team that beat West Virginia and swept rival Tennessee rather easily, but also one that lost to VMI, Ole Miss and Georgia. It's a team that started the SEC 5-0 and finished up 3-8. Tubby Smith, who took Kentucky to four regional finals (going 1-3) in 10 years, finished 9-7 in league play in each of his last two seasons.
Kentucky now has skidded to its first four-game, season-ending losing streak since 1907, all but guaranteed that anything shy of an SEC tournament crown will end the nation's third-longest run of consecutive NCAA tournament appearances.
After the players once again shuffle dejectedly to the locker room, they gather up their things, grab their boxed meals and settle into the bus ride for the airport.
By 6 p.m., the plane is off the ground and the Cats are returning home.
It's hard to know if that's a good thing.
Dana O'Neil covers college basketball for ESPN.com and can be reached at
[email protected].
I'm an avid UK fan. I love Kentucky basketball...always have. I understand the fan intensity. So my comment may seem a bit odd:
The fact that Billy G. has no life outside of basketball has always been something that concerned me. When basketball is all you've got and it's not going well, then what can you fall back on to give you a boost...to put everything into perspective? Everything seems to be very business-like to Billy but sometimes you've got to pull away from business.
I get the feeling that these kids don't need another basketball drill because basketball is beating them up right now. They need something to break the funk. This may sound very un-PC of me, but I believe this would be the time to have the team over to the coach's house for a cookout so they can spend some time with his wife and kids.
dabvu2498
03-11-2009, 11:11 AM
You know, I have had the same thought. Another thought... it seems that all of BG's staff is the same type he is... fairly young, hungry, (over?)driven. There is no "old sage" type to reign BG in if he may go too far. Wmr has commented a few times that the staff has questioned the team's manhood. It would seem that a team that struggled for confidence may not respond well to that. An old sage type may recognize that.
WVRed
03-11-2009, 11:16 AM
I'm an avid UK fan. I love Kentucky basketball...always have. I understand the fan intensity. So my comment may seem a bit odd:
The fact that Billy G. has no life outside of basketball has always been something that concerned me. When basketball is all you've got and it's not going well, then what can you fall back on to give you a boost...to put everything into perspective? Everything seems to be very business-like to Billy but sometimes you've got to pull away from business.
I get the feeling that these kids don't need another basketball drill because basketball is beating them up right now. They need something to break the funk. This may sound very un-PC of me, but I believe this would be the time to have the team over to the coach's house for a cookout so they can spend some time with his wife and kids.
Unfortunately, Billy G's marriage ended in divorce because of his devotion to basketball. And to my knowledge, he has no kids to speak of.
I don't know if you remember this or not, but it was in last years UK thread. I think it was Blimpie who posted about how Barnhardt had to sit Gillispie down after he had been out on the town shortly after arriving in Lexington. As good as an idea as it might seem, Tubby Smith the man is not. I would actually be worried about Gillispie getting extremely close to the players in fear of something Larry Eustachyesque.
cumberlandreds
03-11-2009, 11:32 AM
You know, I have had the same thought. Another thought... it seems that all of BG's staff is the same type he is... fairly young, hungry, (over?)driven. There is no "old sage" type to reign BG in if he may go too far. Wmr has commented a few times that the staff has questioned the team's manhood. It would seem that a team that struggled for confidence may not respond well to that. An old sage type may recognize that.
I have wondered how much BG would have benefited from Bill Keightly if he had lived. Keightly seemed to be the go between for players and coaches when things would be going bad. He was a sounding board who had seen it all at UK and could offer good advice on how to deal with the pressures. BG spoke at Bill Keightlys memorial service and seemed like he had gotten somewhat close to him. We'll never know,unfortunately.
cumberlandreds
03-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Unfortunately, Billy G's marriage ended in divorce because of his devotion to basketball. And to my knowledge, he has no kids to speak of.
I don't know if you remember this or not, but it was in last years UK thread. I think it was Blimpie who posted about how Barnhardt had to sit Gillispie down after he had been out on the town shortly after arriving in Lexington. As good as an idea as it might seem, Tubby Smith the man is not. I would actually be worried about Gillispie getting extremely close to the players in fear of something Larry Eustachyesque.
I thought about the same as you. BG's way to get away from things may be to go to a strip club and have a few drinks. Talk about the uproar if he took his team to something like that! I don't see BG as the backyard BBQ type,myself.
Playadlc
03-11-2009, 01:08 PM
Pardon a Hoosier jumping in here, but I was over at CatsPause today and good God, the stuff I read over there is scary similar to what I was reading when Mike Davis coached the Hoosiers. Now I don't think BG is comparable to Davis in any way, shape or form (BG would coach circles around Davis), it's just that CatsPause is completely unhinged right now, much like Peegs was when Davis was there.
It got me to thinking about how serious Indiana and Kentucky fans take their basketball. CatsPause has completely gone off the deep end. And as much as I want to make fun of UK fans for acting this way, I can't, because Indiana fans would do the exact same thing.
Hang in there UK fans....
TCP is the excrement in the toilet bowl of the UK fan base. Everyone would be much better served if someone would give it a FLUSH.
Going there 2-3 times was enough for me. I'll read the football recruiting stuff, but Rupp's Raftards is the worst message board on the entire internet, as far as I'm concerned.
Still though, thanks for the well wishes, Playa. Nice of you to say that.
I thought about the same as you. BG's way to get away from things may be to go to a strip club and have a few drinks. Talk about the uproar if he took his team to something like that! I don't see BG as the backyard BBQ type,myself.
I dunno, during the televised tour of his home by Channel 27 they showed pool tables and an awesome entertainment center. I think the kids come out there quite a bit during certain times of the year.
I agree that these kids may be shell-shocked at this point.
I also think it would be naive to suggest that Billy Gillispie hasn't learned anything from this season. Despite his myriad of accomplishments, he's still a relatively young coach. Compare Louisville Pitino to UK Pitino, for instance. Quite different.
Unfortunately, Billy G's marriage ended in divorce because of his devotion to basketball. And to my knowledge, he has no kids to speak of.
I should have been more clear...my bad.
What I meant to convey is that it would be good for the coach to have a wife and kids at a time like this. The players could feel a connection to a family as opposed to feeling like they're just "employees" to the coach.
Basketball seems to be above everything else with Billy. But does that mean that basketball is also ahead of his players?
Blimpie
03-11-2009, 04:53 PM
This John Clay column just hit the wire. As usual, I agree with him completely...
http://www.kentucky.com/978/story/722493.html
Posted on Wed, Mar. 11, 2009
Time for Kentucky to act like KENTUCKY
By John Clay
[email protected]
So Lee Todd says that Athletics Director Mitch Barnhart will sit down with head basketball coach Billy Gillispie at the end of the season and then report back to the president on the status of the program.
If I could sit in on either meeting, I'd have just one piece of advice:
If you're Kentucky, be KENTUCKY!
That means:
1. Sign the contract. If Billy Gillispie is to remain as coach, he needs to sign the formal contract. Barnhart should demand it. Now.
I know, some say the contract is a non-issue considering there is a memorandum of understanding between the two parties. They're wrong. It's a symbolic issue, and an important one.
This is Kentucky basketball, after all. Either Gillispie wants to coach at Kentucky under the terms of a formal contract, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, there are plenty more coaches out there who would gladly take the pen.
2. Quit talking about softening the schedule. The schedule is too soft now. Stats whiz Ken Pomeroy ranked UK's non-conference schedule 243rd in the nation this season. True, Indiana's rare rock-bottom season didn't help. But there are too many Longwoods, Delaware States, Lamars, Mississippi Valleys and Florida Atlantics on the slate.
The excuse I hear from the Craft Center is they need a schedule that helps teach the kids how to win. Please. This is Kentucky. The kids should come here knowing how to win.
3. Stop discounting Kentucky kids. That doesn't mean the roster should be filled with nothing but in-state players. But while not a single UK player made the All-SEC Freshman Team, Bryan Station product Shelvin Mack was averaging 11.7 points and 3.5 assists per game as a freshman at Butler. Steffphon Pettigrew, a sophomore from Elizabethtown, was averaging 12.7 points and 5.1 rebounds at Western Kentucky. I'm just saying.
4. Respect the uniform. If a player refuses to come into the game, he shouldn't be playing 27 minutes the next night. If a player quits the team in a huff — if that's truly what happened — should he really be in at a key time of the next game?
And by the way, we're all tired of the Bob Knight-era mind games, of the rumors about lockers being emptied and nameplates removed, of rumors about whether so-and-so was allowed to ride on the team bus home.
5. Take better care of your former players. If you think the current players aren't happy, talk to the former ones. Most say all they feel is a cold shoulder.
They lost their one connection to the basketball office when longtime secretary Marta McMackin was transferred, then retired. That's one reason why players such as Mike Casey, Kenny Walker and Jay Shidler have spoken out publicly about the problems at the Craft Center.
And when was the last time UK retired a jersey at Rupp, anyway?
6. Remember what you represent. Don't be boorish in halftime TV interviews or post-game radio shows. Don't accept ESPN's request for an all-access feature, then limit the access. Don't ignore boosters who travel on trips.
Don't tell a media member who is trying to give you a compliment — as a Florida writer did by remarking UK took the Gators' Nick Calathes out of the game — that he doesn't know how basketball should be played. Is that too much to ask?
7. No more one-man committee. Under most circumstances a coach deserves more than two years in a job, but if Barnhart and Todd honestly believe the situation has become untenable, so be it. But next time, no more one-man search committee.
This state, this university, this fan base has plenty of knowledgeable minds about the game of basketball who would love to help with the process. This time, I'd use some of that brainpower.
After all, I'm guessing that the Billy G. Kentucky basketball has (so far) is not quite the Billy G. it expected. That can't happen again.
WVRed
03-11-2009, 05:27 PM
I should have been more clear...my bad.
What I meant to convey is that it would be good for the coach to have a wife and kids at a time like this. The players could feel a connection to a family as opposed to feeling like they're just "employees" to the coach.
Basketball seems to be above everything else with Billy. But does that mean that basketball is also ahead of his players?
We had that for 10 years. Now the Big Ten is getting a piece of it.
I do agree with you though, but my feeling is that right now that while hopefully Gillispie is the right person for the job, there needs to be a veteran presence who can smooth things over. We lost that in Bill Keightley. An older assistant coach who can reign the coach in and has experience would work wonders for this team, IMO.
This John Clay column just hit the wire. As usual, I agree with him completely...
http://www.kentucky.com/978/story/722493.html
Excellent column !! :beerme:
Chip R
03-11-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm an avid UK fan. I love Kentucky basketball...always have. I understand the fan intensity. So my comment may seem a bit odd:
The fact that Billy G. has no life outside of basketball has always been something that concerned me. When basketball is all you've got and it's not going well, then what can you fall back on to give you a boost...to put everything into perspective? Everything seems to be very business-like to Billy but sometimes you've got to pull away from business.
I get the feeling that these kids don't need another basketball drill because basketball is beating them up right now. They need something to break the funk. This may sound very un-PC of me, but I believe this would be the time to have the team over to the coach's house for a cookout so they can spend some time with his wife and kids.
If UK were doing well, this wouldn't be an issue. Fans would praise him for his single-mindedness and his dedication to his craft. If he were less dedicated to basketball and UK were losing, he'd be criticized if someone saw him out playing golf in the summer. They would wonder why wasn't he out recruiting or looking at game tapes. He's in a no-win situation unless he wins and wins big. UK fans need to take a breath and realize that not even Duke or North Carolina or UConn go to the Final Four every year much less win it all every year. Adolph Rupp is dead and there are more teams and players that are better now than there were back then.
WVRed
03-11-2009, 08:38 PM
My take on the Clay column. PS: If you have read Maggard's comments, they will be similar.
1. Sign the contract.
I do think he should just go ahead and sign it, but it's not really a huge deal "right now". I don't think Gillispie is going to go anywhere unless it is on his terms and even if he wanted to look I doubt he could find anything suitable. Even if the Texas Tech opening comes to fruition, I doubt there will be any discussion.
2. Quit talking about softening the schedule.
I don't think the schedule needs to be softened, but it would make better sense in regards to the actual scheduling of games. For example, making UNC the second game of the season just to get ESPN exposure isn't going to help in recruiting when the Heels are wiping the floor with Kentucky.
3. Stop discounting Kentucky kids.
Last I checked, we did get Darius Miller and Landon Slone. Gillispie took the players who would have accepted their roles and in the process freed up a scholarship for somebody who could make a bigger impact. I doubt Pettigrew and Mack would be starting right now. They have that opportunity at WKU and Butler.
It's the same argument I used to defend Tubby's decision not to recruit Chris Lofton. Did he burn us? Yes. However, if he would have came to Kentucky, it would be hard to predict if he would have ever made it off the bench.
4. Respect the uniform.
I would have suspended Liggins for the following game for his actions and likely the same with Stewart. After that, let them come back as if nothing has happened. Let them do their time in the dog house and move on.
As for the removal of name plates, that is nitpicky old school material. I would have followed in the footsteps of Billy Donovan last year and barred them from any entitlements that they get while attending UK.
5. Take better care of your former players.
I agree, and in some cases, I really wish UK would do more with regard to the former players. I understand Gillispie is fairly new to Lexington, but the alumni can have some serious pull in getting recruits to attend. I look at Rick Pitino at Louisville right now and his assistants are former UK players. There is no reason why Gillispie can't get some of the former players involved in some capacity. It only helps.
6. Remember what you represent
As for limiting the all access pass, I honestly can't say I blame Gillispie in doing so. A humiliating loss that eliminates you from the first postseason exit since 1979 (not counting the Sutton years) barring a miraculous run in the SEC tourney, and I would think the Lexington media, let alone ESPN, would understand.
That being said, I also agree with Marc Maggard. Gillispie should NOT conduct interviews within two hours before and after games. He gets so involved that he alienates anybody around him. Most every Gillispie incident with the media has occurred either during halftime or shortly after a game, with the exception of the Rob Bromley interview mentioned on ESPN.
I've even said before that Gillispie should send an assistant to talk to the media if Kentucky loses or if things are looking grim at halftime. Like it or not, he hasn't reached Jim Calhoun status yet.
7. No more one-man committee.
This one is ridiculous and IMO is not even necessary. Gillispie is in his second year and there is no need to even discuss looking for a new coach.
Javy Pornstache
03-12-2009, 12:21 AM
If UK were doing well, this wouldn't be an issue. Fans would praise him for his single-mindedness and his dedication to his craft. If he were less dedicated to basketball and UK were losing, he'd be criticized if someone saw him out playing golf in the summer. They would wonder why wasn't he out recruiting or looking at game tapes. He's in a no-win situation unless he wins and wins big. UK fans need to take a breath and realize that not even Duke or North Carolina or UConn go to the Final Four every year much less win it all every year. Adolph Rupp is dead and there are more teams and players that are better now than there were back then.
Even though this is everyone's favorite go-to stereotype that always gets slung on UK fans, I've yet to meet ONE that actually feeds into this hyperbole, and expects us to go to the Final Four every year, or is so unreasonable that anything less than a deep tournament run is a failure. This team is on its way to 14 losses with TWO first-team all-conference players. No matter how bare the cupboard was left by his predecessor in terms of talent, they should've never lost 8 of 11 and collapsed down the stretch with a team that has two of the top 20 players in America, and in this year's SEC. I'd say fans have a reason to be pissed. It's not because we expected to go to the Final Four this year... I think most reasonably expected something like a 23-8 (11-5) record this year, and would've been ecstatic with making the NCAA Tournament and advancing past the first weekend into the round of 16. That'd have been a great success.
However, I would imagine Duke, UNC, UConn and others would get antsy if they went eleven years without a Final Four appearance, which is what UK's streak is at. We're not that unreasonable. Is UNC unreasonable for having the gall to expect deep tournament runs in a post-Dean Smith era?
By the way, Gillispie's troubles with the athletic office don't have too much to do with wins and losses, it's mostly off-court and backstage stuff. And it probably all won't go public, but some of it will after the season ends, I'd imagine.
WVRed
03-12-2009, 10:20 AM
Patterson is returning for his junior season.
Looks like MM completely dropped the ball on that one.
dabvu2498
03-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Patterson is returning for his junior season. Looks like MM completely dropped the ball on that one. Or he got it right the 1st time. I'm sure that is how he will spin it. I will remain a bit skeptical until the filing date passes.
WVRed
03-12-2009, 10:31 AM
Even though this is everyone's favorite go-to stereotype that always gets slung on UK fans, I've yet to meet ONE that actually feeds into this hyperbole, and expects us to go to the Final Four every year, or is so unreasonable that anything less than a deep tournament run is a failure. This team is on its way to 14 losses with TWO first-team all-conference players. No matter how bare the cupboard was left by his predecessor in terms of talent, they should've never lost 8 of 11 and collapsed down the stretch with a team that has two of the top 20 players in America, and in this year's SEC. I'd say fans have a reason to be pissed. It's not because we expected to go to the Final Four this year... I think most reasonably expected something like a 23-8 (11-5) record this year, and would've been ecstatic with making the NCAA Tournament and advancing past the first weekend into the round of 16. That'd have been a great success.
However, I would imagine Duke, UNC, UConn and others would get antsy if they went eleven years without a Final Four appearance, which is what UK's streak is at. We're not that unreasonable. Is UNC unreasonable for having the gall to expect deep tournament runs in a post-Dean Smith era?
By the way, Gillispie's troubles with the athletic office don't have too much to do with wins and losses, it's mostly off-court and backstage stuff. And it probably all won't go public, but some of it will after the season ends, I'd imagine.
Took the words right out of my mouth. It's not that we expect to go to the Final Four every year, but we at least expect to compete well in the NCAA tournament. Take Duke, UNC, UCLA, etc and asks fans there if they would consider it problematic if they were in the same boat as Kentucky.
I'll also echo what Javy said about Gillispie meeting with Barnhardt at the end of the season. Gillispie has been less than cordial with the national and local media.
Some examples:
Jeanine Edwards twice. Calling a question stupid and then acting like he didn't hear her ask a question and making her repeat it.
Accusing Tom Leach of trying to get him to throw the players under the bus.
Telling Rob Bromley he wouldn't answer questions about him possibly losing his team because Bromley had "already formed his opinion".
bucksfan2
03-12-2009, 10:59 AM
Took the words right out of my mouth. It's not that we expect to go to the Final Four every year, but we at least expect to compete well in the NCAA tournament. Take Duke, UNC, UCLA, etc and asks fans there if they would consider it problematic if they were in the same boat as Kentucky.
I'll also echo what Javy said about Gillispie meeting with Barnhardt at the end of the season. Gillispie has been less than cordial with the national and local media.
Listening to the Billy Gillispie call in show is quite comical. Those fans give UK fans a bad rap.
Duke, UNC, and UCLA all went through dry periods. IIRC all three of those teams have missed the NCAA Tournament during UK's streak. UCLA was on a downward spiral but struck gold with Ben Howland. I will go out on a limb and say this but unless Coach K ups his recruiting, taking chances on one and done players, he won't have the talent to compete for a national title. He is one of the best coaches in the game, other programs are getting better players. You could make the argument that both UNC and Wake Forest have more talented teams than Duke does.
I used to love to watch UK lose. I never have liked them and was quite upset when they hired Gillispie because I thought it was a great hire. He is a very demanding coach and he is having a tough time with his current players. Crawford and Bradley turned in pretty impressive players under Gillispie's tutelage. UK will succeed under Gillispie if and when his players buy completely into his program. The guy won at Texas A&M. He took Acie Law from a nobody and turned him into a great PG.
dabvu2498
03-12-2009, 11:15 AM
Acie Law was not exactly a stiff when BG inherited him.
Acie Law was not exactly a stiff when BG inherited him.
I seem to recall he came on strong the second half of his freshman year. Or am I remembering incorrectly?
Nice win for the Cats today. A much needed win.
Looked like an honest to goodness basketball team out there!!
Haven't been as proud of a player in a long time as I am of Darius Miller. He's going to be a stud next year.
cumberlandreds
03-12-2009, 03:22 PM
A breath of fresh air today. They played with desire and pride today. Something they lacked for the last six weeks. We'll see how the rest of tourney goes but at least for one day the ole Wildcat pride made an appearance.
LSU will be a handful tomorrow. Most athletic team in the SEC. Gonna be tough to handle them with no rest.
Miller was huge down the stretch. Shows me a lot when a freshman steps up like that in a tournament game. He should a great one.
Blimpie
03-12-2009, 03:31 PM
I am glad we drew LSU. Before I felt that we needed to win the SEC Tourney to be considered for the NCAA. Now, I think UK will get a look even if they just make it (win or lose) to the Championship game on Sunday.
Either way, they have to beat LSU tomorrow or they will be playing next week in Memorial Coliseum.
If the UK that played today shows up tomorrow they will beat LSU.
UK only made ONE 3 pointer today (THE STREAK LIVES ON! HAHA) and will shoot better tomorrow.
The effort today was consistent from beginning to end. Loved it.
dabvu2498
03-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Looked like an honest to goodness basketball team out there!! Haven't been as proud of a player in a long time as I am of Darius Miller. He's going to be a stud next year. True. And did it without Meeks having to hit a bunch of 3's. Tomorrow will be telling. They have a chance to make some noise, but I don't see any way they win 4 games in 4 days.
WVRed
03-12-2009, 04:07 PM
True. And did it without Meeks having to hit a bunch of 3's. Tomorrow will be telling. They have a chance to make some noise, but I don't see any way they win 4 games in 4 days.
If we beat LSU, it can do nothing but help us.
That being said, IF we win, we get to face either South Carolina, who has swept us twice, or Mississippi State (barring a comeback from Georgia), who we haven't exactly looked very good against the last two years.
That will likely be where the train stops.
Good win. They looked like they wanted to win this one.
I'm impressed that they kept their turnovers in check and they won without a lot of 3s.
Good to see miller and Stevenson step up. Kentucky needs some other players take charge if they really want to make a run at the championship. (Wow...that's an obvious statement, huh? I should work for ESPN.)
WVRed
03-12-2009, 05:18 PM
Just went back and watched the second half. The bad thing is that if Kentucky would have hit some of their open shots, especially three's, they would have won by 20+.
They can't afford to not do that against LSU tomorrow if they want to advance.
I am glad we drew LSU. Before I felt that we needed to win the SEC Tourney to be considered for the NCAA. Now, I think UK will get a look even if they just make it (win or lose) to the Championship game on Sunday.
Either way, they have to beat LSU tomorrow or they will be playing next week in Memorial Coliseum.
Oscar Combs has the same opinion. I heard his comments before the game.
Blimpie
03-12-2009, 06:22 PM
Oscar Combs has the same opinion. I heard his comments before the game.The Big O speaks bibles of truth....
:beerme:
macro
03-12-2009, 08:31 PM
Patterson is returning for his junior season.
That is great news, but unless they have a point guard, will it matter? Who is the best hope for a point guard?
TeamSelig
03-12-2009, 09:02 PM
Even though this is everyone's favorite go-to stereotype that always gets slung on UK fans, I've yet to meet ONE that actually feeds into this hyperbole, and expects us to go to the Final Four every year, or is so unreasonable that anything less than a deep tournament run is a failure. This team is on its way to 14 losses with TWO first-team all-conference players. No matter how bare the cupboard was left by his predecessor in terms of talent, they should've never lost 8 of 11 and collapsed down the stretch with a team that has two of the top 20 players in America, and in this year's SEC. I'd say fans have a reason to be pissed. It's not because we expected to go to the Final Four this year... I think most reasonably expected something like a 23-8 (11-5) record this year, and would've been ecstatic with making the NCAA Tournament and advancing past the first weekend into the round of 16. That'd have been a great success.
However, I would imagine Duke, UNC, UConn and others would get antsy if they went eleven years without a Final Four appearance, which is what UK's streak is at. We're not that unreasonable. Is UNC unreasonable for having the gall to expect deep tournament runs in a post-Dean Smith era?
By the way, Gillispie's troubles with the athletic office don't have too much to do with wins and losses, it's mostly off-court and backstage stuff. And it probably all won't go public, but some of it will after the season ends, I'd imagine.
+1
Well said.
WVRed
03-12-2009, 10:31 PM
That is great news, but unless they have a point guard, will it matter? Who is the best hope for a point guard?
Kentucky has a recruit coming in who isn't highly rated, but from all accounts would likely make a solid contribution in GJ Vilarino. He committed to Kentucky shortly after Gillispie was hired and has done a pretty good job in Texas.
As much as I think Liggins believes he is higher than the team right now, as Willy Mo took from MM, the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores. I am hoping Liggins comes to that realization in the offseason and buys into Gillispie's system. He could be the key to some wins next season if he does.
dabvu2498
03-12-2009, 10:47 PM
That is great news, but unless they have a point guard, will it matter? Who is the best hope for a point guard? Michael Porter :)
That is great news, but unless they have a point guard, will it matter? Who is the best hope for a point guard?
Konner Tucker
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 07:54 AM
Konner Tucker A last minute juco is better than last year's 4 star pg recruit and a guy that BG has had a commitment from for about 2 years. Um... probably not.
joshnky
03-13-2009, 08:47 AM
A last minute juco is better than last year's 4 star pg recruit and a guy that BG has had a commitment from for about 2 years. Um... probably not.
Sounds a lot like what we were told regarding Galloway and we've seen how that has turned out so far.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 09:06 AM
Sounds a lot like what we were told regarding Galloway and we've seen how that has turned out so far. Galloway at least has some useful qualities. It does concern me though that this Tucker kid would be the 4th alleged pg recruited in 2 years and I still expect to see Michael Porter starting at pg to open the year.
cumberlandreds
03-13-2009, 09:13 AM
A last minute juco is better than last year's 4 star pg recruit and a guy that BG has had a commitment from for about 2 years. Um... probably not.
I'm not that thrilled about a JUCO pg either. More often than not JUCO players don't work out that well. They just have too hard a time adjusting to D-1.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 09:36 AM
I'm not that thrilled about a JUCO pg either. More often than not JUCO players don't work out that well. They just have too hard a time adjusting to D-1. I don't mind 3 year jucos like Harrellson, if they have skill. But if you give a guy a 2 year scholarship, he should be able to produce quickly. I can't find if Tucker is a frosh or soph. I did see his assist to turnover ratio. 2.4 to 1.9. Not good. Especially when we can assume he faced only nominal defense.
WVRed
03-13-2009, 09:38 AM
Konner Tucker
Pass.
I'd rather develop somebody straight out of high school than try to sort out the kinks with another Juco. You might get a good role player if anything, but this team needs a long term option to develop.
He must be a frosh. I found this Ft Worth Star-Telegram article from one year ago.
When his star player, Konner Tucker, the leading scorer among area Class 5A players, wasn’t getting the college offers he felt were appropriate, Fort Worth Paschal coach Lane Norsworthy gave an old friend a call.
That friend happens to be Kentucky coach Billy Gillispie, whom he met when both were coaching at South Plains Junior College in the mid-1990s.
"Konner is being overlooked, there's no doubt about it," Norsworthy said. "So, I sent a tape of him out to Billy. Now, I'm not saying he's going to get an offer to play at Kentucky. But I definitely think he is a mid-major prospect."
Norsworthy said there were only two things Gillispie asked about: 1. How tough is Konner, and 2. What is his shooting range?
"The longer I'm in this business, the more I analyze what people say," Norsworthy said. "And, Billy didn't want to know how big or how tall Konner was. Those two questions were about his heart. Konner has got that."
Right now, Tucker has been getting offers from schools such as Drake, Cal-Riverside, and other lower-tiered Division I schools.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 09:53 AM
He must be a frosh. I found this Ft Worth Star-Telegram article from one year ago. Good find. Thanks. One other question. Where are all these scholarships coming from?
Good find. Thanks. One other question. Where are all these scholarships coming from?
How many has he offered for next year's class?
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 10:09 AM
How many has he offered for next year's class? 3 signed and appearantly he is shopping another. Carter is gone and presumably Williams and Stewart. I am wondering who else goes.
3 signed and appearantly he is shopping another. Carter is gone and presumably Williams and Stewart. I am wondering who else goes.
That still leaves 15 returning players plus the 3+ newcomers. How many of the returning players are walk-ons?
Jody Demling at the Courier-Journal had an article about Tucker yesterday.
Tucker to visit UK
Konner Tucker, who spent this season at Lon Morris Junior College in Jacksonville, Texas, will visit the University of Kentucky early next week.
The 6-foot-4, 180-pound Tucker told me in an interview this afternoon that UK has made him a scholarship offer and he will head to Lexington soon. He said the details have not been finalized but there's a chance he could be there as early as Monday.
"As of right now, there have been a lot of schools calling and wanting me to set up visits and to come out and see me at school," Tucker said. "I haven't actually made my final list of schools I'm looking at right now. But yes, Kentucky has offered me."
Tucker, a point guard who averaged 17 points a game at Lon Morris, said the UK coaches have been in contact for much of the season. He said UK coach Billy Gillispie and assistant coach Jeremy Cox showed up to watch him at a recent game.
He said after a loss on Sunday in a Region XIV semifinal that he spoke with Gillispie on the phone and "he offered me a full ride."
Tucker said his dream has been to play for Kentucky. He lived here for a few years when he was younger and his father Mark was born in Danville. Mark Tucker is a former coach at North Laurel High School and played college ball at Tulsa and Oklahoma State.
So, Tucker does have a Bluegrass background.
He played his high school ball at Fort Worth (Texas) Paschal, where his father is an assistant coach. Tucker went to a JUCO out of high school because he didn't think he was getting the Division I looks he should have been, telling the Fort Worth Star-Telegraph more than a year ago that "if I go to a JUCO and get stronger and improve in that first year, I feel I got a really good chance at playing at a high-Division I level."
joshnky
03-13-2009, 11:11 AM
It's a good thing UK has BillyG out there recruiting so they can gain these commitments against stiff competition like Drake. ;)
Never mind: I just realized that was the list of schools recruiting him last year.
WVRed
03-13-2009, 11:21 AM
3 signed and appearantly he is shopping another. Carter is gone and presumably Williams and Stewart. I am wondering who else goes.
If I had to guess looking at the current roster-
Should be back regardless-
Kevin Galloway
Josh Harrellson
Ramon Harris
Darius Miller
Michael Porter
Perry Stevenson
Graduating-
Jared Carter
On scholarship and likely leaving-
AJ Stewart
Donald Williams
Could go either way-
DeAndre Liggins
Pro options-
Patrick Patterson
Jodie Meeks
Walk-ons-
Adam Delph
Mark Halsell
Mark Krebs
Dwight Perry
Matt Scherbenske
Landon Slone
Jarvis Walker
Incoming-
Jon Hood
GJ Vilarino
Daniel Orton
Matt Pilgrim
My guess is Stewart and Williams will join Carter which would allow the current three incoming players to join. If Liggins decides to leave then Tucker would likely be a possibility (although I am holding my nose at the Juco thing).
joshnky
03-13-2009, 11:40 AM
If I had to guess looking at the current roster-
Should be back regardless-
Kevin Galloway
Josh Harrellson
Ramon Harris
Darius Miller
Michael Porter
Perry Stevenson
Graduating-
Jared Carter
On scholarship and likely leaving-
AJ Stewart
Donald Williams
Could go either way-
DeAndre Liggins
Pro options-
Patrick Patterson
Jodie Meeks
Walk-ons-
Adam Delph
Mark Halsell
Mark Krebs
Dwight Perry
Matt Scherbenske
Landon Slone
Jarvis Walker
Incoming-
Jon Hood
GJ Vilarino
Daniel Orton
My guess is Stewart and Williams will join Carter which would allow the current three incoming players to join. If Liggins decides to leave then Tucker would likely be a possibility (although I am holding my nose at the Juco thing).
What about Pilgrim?
Blimpie
03-13-2009, 12:16 PM
Sounds a lot like what we were told regarding Galloway and we've seen how that has turned out so far.Uhm...Am I the only one here who really likes Galloway's game?
In fact, I fully believe that he could have helped turn this season around...had he not spent considerable time in BCG's dog condo.
You all really don't know anything about Konner. He's not your typical JuCo kid. He made the decision to go JuCo instead of a year at a prep school like many other kids.
Tucker, a point guard who averaged 17 points a game at Lon Morris, said the UK coaches have been in contact for much of the season.
Last minute, huh?
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 12:32 PM
Uhm...Am I the only one here who really likes Galloway's game? In fact, I fully believe that he could have helped turn this season around...had he not spent considerable time in BCG's dog condo. Condo? Try mansion. Anyway, yeah, I like his game. Not sure he was worth a scholarship being tied up so he could be used in ~70 games.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 12:35 PM
You all really don't know anything about Konner. He's not your typical JuCo kid. He made the decision to go JuCo instead of a year at a prep school like many other kids. So he decided to cost himself a year of eligibility. Hmm.
So he decided to cost himself a year of eligibility. Hmm.
Apparently the guard play in the JuCo conference he attended is as good as any high major conference in the USA.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 12:40 PM
Last minute, huh? January and February could be "much of the season." the question is when was the scholarship offered?
January and February could be "much of the season." the question is when was the scholarship offered?
After BCG flew down to see him play in his conference tournament, IIRC.
WVRed
03-13-2009, 12:45 PM
Somebody name me the last high impact Juco player not only that has made an impact at Kentucky, but for that matter anywhere.
Just based off of the Juco's I have seen at Kentucky:
Antwan Barbour
Rekalin Sims
Kevin Galloway
Josh Harrellson
Anytime you take a Juco, you are settling for mediocrity.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 12:48 PM
Apparently the guard play in the JuCo conference he attended is as good as any high major conference in the USA. Wmr, I have a nice piece of property you might be interested in. Arizona. Great ocean view. Sad to say, I have seen tons of juco games. And the number of high major players I saw was limited. Most of those guys are actually playing at high major schools.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 12:52 PM
Somebody name me the last high impact Juco player not only that has made an impact at Kentucky, but for that matter anywhere. Just based off of the Juco's I have seen at Kentucky: Antwan Barbour Rekalin Sims Kevin Galloway Josh Harrellson Anytime you take a Juco, you are settling for mediocrity. Bobby Maze? :)
joshnky
03-13-2009, 01:40 PM
Somebody name me the last high impact Juco player not only that has made an impact at Kentucky, but for that matter anywhere.
Just based off of the Juco's I have seen at Kentucky:
Antwan Barbour
Rekalin Sims
Kevin Galloway
Josh Harrellson
Anytime you take a Juco, you are settling for mediocrity.
And they were all touted as the "next great thing" just like this kid (apparently). Louisville has gone the same route in the past when defections and recruiting misses have piled up and its never worked well either. Really I can't remember the name of any of the Jucos so they didn't leave much of an impression.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 01:45 PM
Dale Brown was a pretty decent juco guy for Kentucky. Of course that was 18 years ago.
Dale Brown was a pretty decent juco guy for Kentucky. Of course that was 18 years ago.
IU won it's last championship with two juco's starting.
joshnky
03-13-2009, 01:49 PM
I think relaxed admissions and high school "help" on test scores has pretty well thinned the juco ranks of the great players who couldn't qualify. I doubt that was the case 15 or 20 years ago.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 01:55 PM
I think relaxed admissions and high school "help" on test scores has pretty well thinned the juco ranks of the great players who couldn't qualify. I doubt that was the case 15 or 20 years ago. And all the postgrad prep schools.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 01:58 PM
IU won it's last championship with two juco's starting. Forgot about that. So did UNLV.
WVRed
03-13-2009, 02:00 PM
And they were all touted as the "next great thing" just like this kid (apparently). Louisville has gone the same route in the past when defections and recruiting misses have piled up and its never worked well either. Really I can't remember the name of any of the Jucos so they didn't leave much of an impression.
The only one I remember that had pretty good acolades was Antwan Barbour. Outside of the fact that he was from Kentucky, he was also the top Juco player in the nation. IIRC, it was between Kentucky and Louisville for his services and Kentucky won out.
Konner Tucker is just another Marc Maggard Flavor of the Month. Just like Hunter McClintock and Darius Smith. I enjoy reading MM, but he does like to push players who are in the mold of what we already have.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 02:01 PM
Anyway, another ugly game for the Cats. Meeks' +/- would be abysmal if they keep such things.
WVRed
03-13-2009, 02:05 PM
Anyway, another ugly game for the Cats. Meeks' +/- would be abysmal if they keep such things.
Agreed, Meeks has tried to take over the game and subsequently has spent time on the bench.
The fact that they are only down five at the half is somewhat encouraging. Kentucky has been a second half team this season and a run would be nice.
PS: If Kentucky does lose the game, wearing black and blue uniforms on likely the final game barring NIT would be the definition of irony.
Hoosier Red
03-13-2009, 02:28 PM
Kentucky has been a second half team this season
So has IU, its usually in the second half when IU rolls over and dies.
Boston Red
03-13-2009, 02:32 PM
The last major impact JuCo I remember in college basketball was Steve Francis. Obviously that does not happen very often.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Larry Conley: "inattention to detail." Summed it all up in 3 words.
NIT Time!
Meeks picked a heck of a game to have the worst game of his career.
The bad UK showed up today and because of that they lost/will lose.
How many turnovers has UK had so far today? Seems like a lot just following along with the play-by-play on ESPN.com.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 02:55 PM
How many turnovers has UK had so far today? Seems like a lot just following along with the play-by-play on ESPN.com. lots. And it has been amazing how many tie ups there have been. Symptom of bad basketball. By both teams.
lots. And it has been amazing how many tie ups there have been. Symptom of bad basketball. By both teams.
Yep. We get LOTS of tie ups in the league I coach in. Of course, it's 3rd graders. ;)
These refs suck. I mean really suck. How amazing that it's a Tony Greene crew. Pathetic.
joshnky
03-13-2009, 03:03 PM
These refs suck. I mean really suck. How amazing that it's a Tony Greene crew. Pathetic.
I agree regarding the foul call on Porter. Bad call.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 03:04 PM
These refs suck. I mean really suck. How amazing that it's a Tony Greene crew. Pathetic. As soon as I saw he was doing this game I knew we would hear that (if they lost.)
UK doesn't deserve to go to the NCAAs, but the reffing was brutal today and weighed heavily against UK.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 03:16 PM
And yet, UK shot 5 more fts than LSU.
Boston Red
03-13-2009, 03:16 PM
UK doesn't deserve to go to the NCAAs, but the reffing was brutal today and weighed heavily against UK.
/Fan of every team that ever lost any game
/Fan of every team that ever lost any game
Nah. Do you know the history of Tony Greene and UK? If not, discretion might be the better part of valor in this instance.
TeamSelig
03-13-2009, 03:18 PM
Wasn't Patrick Sparks a JUCO?
Nah, TS, he started at WKU.
Boston Red
03-13-2009, 03:22 PM
Let's hear this conspiracy theory that the SEC office must not know about.
TeamSelig
03-13-2009, 03:26 PM
Oh. My bad.
Either way, I'm not completely against JUCOs. While they may struggle due to the difference from NJCAA to NCAA, they will usually come with more maturity and polish to their game as opposed to a freshman who may be a year or two from competing.
Hoosier Red
03-13-2009, 03:28 PM
I actually looked it up. Seriously, Big Blue Nation keeps tabs on this?
Tony Greene has now officiated 67 games.
In those games, UK is 42-25.
UK has been called for an average of 18.55 fouls, and their opponents have been called for an average of 18.61 fouls.
Although since Gillespie's been hired, UK is 7-9 in 16 games while being called for 18.87 fouls and the opponents being called for 18 fouls.
Boston Red
03-13-2009, 03:30 PM
I actually looked it up. Seriously, Big Blue Nation keeps tabs on this?
Tony Greene has now officiated 67 games.
In those games, UK is 42-25.
UK has been called for an average of 18.55 fouls, and their opponents have been called for an average of 18.61 fouls.
Although since Gillespie's been hired, UK is 7-9 in 16 games while being called for 18.87 fouls and the opponents being called for 18 fouls.
Black helicopters
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 03:31 PM
Let's hear this conspiracy theory that the SEC office must not know about. There was actually a post at tbk that was worthwhile in this department. Some stats were provided that showed the differences in games he did were minimal. That was after the Vandy game.
Compare their winning percentages with and without him officiating. Also, there's a heck of a lot more to how an official affects a basketball game than fouls called.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 03:34 PM
I actually looked it up. Seriously, Big Blue Nation keeps tabs on this? Tony Greene has now officiated 67 games. In those games, UK is 42-25. UK has been called for an average of 18.55 fouls, and their opponents have been called for an average of 18.61 fouls. Although since Gillespie's been hired, UK is 7-9 in 16 games while being called for 18.87 fouls and the opponents being called for 18 fouls. Thanks for looking that up.
dabvu2498
03-13-2009, 03:37 PM
Compare their winning percentages with and without him officiating. Also, there's a heck of a lot more to how an official affects a basketball game than fouls called. 7-9 really isnt that far of bg's total win % at UK. :)
Hoosier Red
03-13-2009, 03:52 PM
Thanks for looking that up.
I was just amazed there was a website which had the information so readily available.
Oh by the way, since BG's come to town the technicals are 4-UK, 3-Opponents.
TeamSelig
03-13-2009, 04:08 PM
Hopefully BG can land Bledsoe. 12th PG. (67th overall). We desperately need good PG play.
Add that to 32nd overall, SG Jon Hood and 22nd overall, C Daniel Orton.
Those prospects with a year of seasoning should do us good.
Saw this article today from Jerry Tipton:
http://www.kentucky.com/818/story/724533.html
This is why Gillispie will not be back next year.
Gillispie's tunnel vision creates a minimalist approach: recruit better players and coach them into dominant teams. Any responsibility to UK fans pretty much ends there.
Barnhart, who keeps an eye on the till, sees an additional duty: ambassador to the fans and public face of the commonwealth.
The two spoke of their views Thursday after Kentucky beat Mississippi in the Southeastern Conference Tournament. These contrasting views figure to come up when the two meet after the season to discuss the path Kentucky basketball must take into the future.
When a reporter suggested that any UK basketball coach is a public figure with public responsibilities, Gillispie said, "That wasn't on the job description."
Gillispie goes on to say that it's his job to win games. Granted. However, he apparently fails to grasp what it means to be the head of a program so rich in tradition.
Someone said earlier that Gillispie's downfall will be the stuff that doesn't happen between tip-off and the final buzzer and I agree.
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