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If Phillips were traded, I'd move Suarez to 2B, Duvall to 3B (can't be worse defensively right now than Suarez) and call up Schebler to be the everyday LF. I only call up Peraza if Cozart is traded.
If Bruce is then moved, his replacement is either Winker or whomever the Reds received in the previous three trades.
But man that is a lot of dealing. It could happen, but burning it down like that is risky and takes a lot of guts.
I don't think Suarez at 2nd is a good idea. His issues seem to be inconsistent footwork, and having too much time to think while making the play. His footwork problems would be magnified at 2nd base, and playing 2nd would give him a lot more time to think (and mess up) the play. Playing 3rd allows him to be reactionary instead of deliberate, which mitigates both of those weaknesses. If he can't handle 3rd, then OF or (if it happens) DH seems to be his final destination.Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
I don't even agree with the original premise. I checked the last several years' worth of team defensive stats; they haven't been great but except for one year they've been average or above.Quote:
Originally Posted by kpresidente
Flash back to our club in the middle of the Lost Decade. THAT is what a team ignoring defense in favor of hitting looked like.
His problems, from my observances appear to be going to his right. He doesn't get in front of anything. At 2B he'll have more time to position himself which I think is better for him. He won't be BP over there, but he'll be passable if that were to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
But for all the grief Bruce gets as a streaky hitter, Suarez seems determined to carry that banner going forward.
Thing is, if BP turned down a trade to a contender in DC with Dusty, the chances of him going anywhere before his contract expires after next season are downright miniscule. By ST 2018, I'd say Senzel should be about ready for a look-see at 3B (I like what I've seen of Duvall in LF and the only place I might move him is RF). Also by then, I think the club will turn the keys to SS over to aRod (let's pray he can find 1B). Votto is going no where at 1st so that leaves Peraza or Suarez for 2B. I see it going one of two ways. Peraza in CF if Billy's not hitting with Suarez at 2B or Peraza at 2B with Suarez in a "SuperUtility" role (I'm guessing the latter). Wouldn't shock me to see Perez in DeJesus' reserve role by then as well. Blandino, Dixon, Renda, Daal or Long could challenge for that spot as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF
In the OF, unless Duvall turns into an absolute pumpkin, he will man one corner spot, hopefully with Winker coming on strong in the other and Schebler & Ervin in reserve. If Hamilton can get to a point where he can maintain an OBP of .300 or better, he'll probably be in CF with Peraza or Ervin around if he can't. Behind the plate, I see Barnhart's defense still holding down on slot. The other? I don't see anyway they extend Mes again w/o a miraculous comeback at the plate in 2017 and solid health behind it. Most of the catching options Gotta between Cincy & Pensacola are journeymen at best. Gotta hope someon like Stephenson, Okey, Brown, Trees, Tomp, Hudson, etc. catches fire between now and 2018.
If I'm gonna make a position acquisition (trade, FA, International FA, high draft pick), it would be:
1. A young OF bat that could play any of the three spots
2. An elite offensive Shortstop
3. A solid all-around young Catcher
Actually, I think Prince is a vegetarian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds
Nope, false rumor, as he said himself actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEye
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8afvQK_jXh...garden+003.JPGQuote:
Originally Posted by TRF
If a club has an advanced OF prospect, why would they trade him for Bruce? Why wouldn't they just promote him and give him a chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitri
Actually, I guess he tried it for three months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds
http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/texa...-hour-workoutsQuote:
Fielder was actually a vegetarian... for all of three months. Fielder decided to do this after reading the book Skinny B***h by Rory Freedman and Kim Barnouin, which was given to him by his wife, Chanel. He now employs his own personal chef, Rudy Poindexter (right).
Wow... three months, there's some disciplineQuote:
Originally Posted by RedEye
You try not eating meat for 3 months. Would seem like an eternity for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by westofyou
WOY hasn't had meat in something like 30 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckie
Crazy Hippy.
Moving Suarez to 2nd? Why in the heck would you do that? You're asking a young player to get established and learn his 3rd position in 10 months. You're weakening what you have by moving Duvall to 3rd. That's the problem with bad teams -no one can sit on a decision and make it work --let's wait and see if he can make things work. He's getting better- his footwork after the catch is fine and it's a rep thing with re to fielding. Let's see if he can have a career instead of making the infield a car wreck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedEye
Snoop Dogg approves, just wishes he still had people fooled
Best hitter on the roster in 2016
Votto is the best hitter far and away. Bruce is having some great results right now though.
How does Bob trade an .895 guy off this roster and still claim to be in good faith with the fans who show up to watch today's game and not the prospects of some imagined future?
It was exactly this thinking a year ago with Frazier and Chapman that caused the Reds to wait and not get full value for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieRed
There are several questions I'd raise about this response. One: perhaps that kind of thinking was relevant last year as well (and I'm not sure how much the average fan cares about some hypothetical fair value to be realized in a purely hypothetical future). Two: I'm not sure yet that we have a reasonable way to assess the value of what we received in the Frazier/Chapman trades. Third: the concept of "fair value" assumes an efficient market and it's not at all clear to me that major league trading involves anything like an efficient or rational market.Quote:
Originally Posted by WrongVerb
I was a big proponent of trading Jay for Wheeler. Never mind.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/me...john-recovery/
Do you pick up the Bruce option to gain leverage?
It is a legitimate bargaining tool this year.
"We don't have to trade him"
I agree with you here, but didn't you advocate trading Votto in another thread today?Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieRed
Wasn't advocating, was suggesting as a theoretical possibility. I do think Votto raises this same question, but all the trading discussion has been about Bruce, not Votto.Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldaniels
If you pick up the option now, you may eliminate some smaller markets from the trade table.
Some teams may only want Jay as a rental.
But Reds should certainly tell teams Reds haven't ruled out picking up option, and would do so rather than take a weak package for him.
It's because Votto has full trade protection and a contract that will keep him here when the Reds expect to contendQuote:
Originally Posted by HokieRed
Why can't you just keep him if he's going to hit near 40 and knock in over 100 ?
As of right now Jay Bruce's slash line is .282/333/588 OPS .921
Im behind .....when did posting the slash line with the OPS as last number happen? I'm getting old and i apologize to a couple of guys i corrected.
Bruce had 26 HRs, 35 doubles, and 4 triples last year for 65 XBHs in 649 PAs in 2015.
Bruce has 16 HRs, 15 doubles, and 6 triples for 37 XBHs in 245 PAs in 2016.
Thank goodness for iffy medical records on that one minor league guy. Give us top talent for Bruce or go to hell!
If Jay continues to hit this well, he will demand a huge contract after 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990
If Jay doesn't continue to hit this well, the Reds will have lost the opportunity to trade him for a "haul."
Either way, it makes sense to move him if you can get very strong prospect in return.
I get that. But I don't like the thought of other teams knowing for sure the Reds will trade him. Make them sweat. And if you don't get a good haul, pick it up and try again next year. (Assuming he is playing well)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc61
I want Walt showing Dick how it's done on this one. He was brilliant in Cueto and he can be even more brilliant on Bruce. I hope he takes the lead. With an extra year of control as an option and hitting being so bad this year across baseball this honestly could be something that rapidly speeds up the rebuild. I'm amazed people are changing to a "keep Bruce" argument. I honestly hate to see him go but I think it could be a wonderful building block in the next winning team.
To me, in a prospects trade, the key isn't so much Walt v. Dick. The key is the Reds' scouting of the prospects.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrichjr
It would be easy if the prospects in the deal were the absolute top, top elite prospects in baseball. You don't have to be a genius to understand a near sure thing atop every list.
In Bruce's case, we're mainly talking about one highly considered prospect, but not a top ten MLB guy. The scouts' guidance on the value of that prospect is the key to the deal. Reds need to pick the right one.
I get that. Walt just almost always wins in trades and usually doesn't panic. Dick might be awesome but I truly hope Walt is part of the process like I suspect he will be. Give me two more trades like the Cueto deal when dealing Cozart and Bruce and I will be almost satisfied. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc61
I think those deals illustrate just what you are saying. Reed wasn't on a top 100 list but he obviously was someone the Reds scouts had influences in getting.
I can't wait for the deadline because I think Walt/Dick are going to make some great long term moves with these two chips.
Assuming the right return the Reds clearly should trade Jay Bruce, but I will be sorry to see him go. He has been frustratingly inconsistent in his Reds career, but he has always seemed to be a good guy and he is well up on the Reds career HR list. He will deserve to be inducted into the Reds HOF when he retires. I hope he goes to a team that can get him a World Series ring, as happened with Cueto last year.
Houston is on the rise and sits at 36-36, 3 games out of the WC. I wonder what it would take to pry Bregman? If Jay keeps this up I almost wonder if a straight up 1-1 would be possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
I'm not sure any sabermetrically inclined team would give you much for him.
The exception -if his defensive stats are better than perceived at our level -then he might be able to throw off a B- kind of prospect. Maybe someone's 11-15th prospect. I would like to trade with the Dodgers- they don't seem to mind eating salary and losing a deal for short term gain.
The defensive thing is overblown due to advanced metrics. Bruce is not going to wow you on defense aside from his arm which is still above average but he is more than capable of doing his job in RF. With the stick here is how he ranks currentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Cooper
AVG .282 - 64th
OBP .333 - 86th
SLG .588 - 6th
OPS .921 - 17th
HR 17 - 17th
RBI - 55 - 4th
While he doesn't have a history of hitting for average a guy who is on pace to hit say .275+, OBP around .330, and hit 30 HRs w/90+ RBIs and OPS north of .850 is a very valuable player. He was ranked as the #4 trade candidate by MLBtraderumors on May 31st and has been even better since then. Add in Rich Hill being on the DL and Braun and Lucroy cooling off and Bruce is the hottest trade bait in baseball. A benefit that I'm sure everyone in the Reds FO knows is that this years crop of trade candidates is very underwhelming. If traded Jay should net the Reds a package at least equal to Cueto, especially since Cueto was a rental and Jay has a $13m CO for 2017
Bruce's production to this point in the season has been nothing short of ideal from the Reds' seat. He's been one of the best bats in all of baseball (138 wRC+ puts him 28th in baseball, .381 wOBA puts him 27th in baseball, .921 OPS puts him 17th in baseball), is affordable to almost any team this season, and has a club option at an affordable rate for next year with a negligible buyout. A trade for him would allow the Reds to maintain the entirety of any leverage, as saying "no thanks, we need more than that" is a real threat - the Reds could refuse to trade Bruce at the deadline, pick up his option, and trade him in the offseason to a team without giving up the potential for a compensation pick.
It is very possible that Bruce will be far and away the most desirable bat available at the deadline.
Why isn't it possible for Bruce to net a Cueto-esque haul? He's an everyday player - especially on an AL team where the DH can mitigate any defensive concerns - and seems to have repelled the injury demons that may have plagued him in the last 1.5 seasons. I think that it's very possible to see a Carlos Gomez level return, especially if Bruce is packaged with another player. Gomez was moved with 1.5 years left on an affordable deal, and was performing at a level below Bruce offensively but above Bruce defensively. Gomez was packaged together with Mike Fiers, who was basically a league-average starter with some bat missing ability. The return was headlined by a projectable OF bat.
Sounds a lot like a Bruce/Straily or Bruce/Lamb package, doesn't it?