USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - USA Eliminated

[texasdave]

I have a question or two about goalies. I have seen them do the following things when they get possession of the ball. How do they decide which one to do?

a) Set the ball on the ground and kick it as if they were kicking a field goal. It seems they can get the most distance that way, but it is 50/50 whether their team keeps control of the ball.

b) Punt the ball. Once again it goes along way but maintaining possession seems iffy.

c) Kick the ball as it is rolling towards them. I can see this in certain situations as clearing the ball quickly if the other side is nearby. But sometimes one of their teammates will kick one back towards them and they kick it while it is rolling towards them, even with noone from the other team around.

d) Sling the ball towards a member of their own team. This seems to make the most sense to me as the ball is almost always received by a member of the goalie's team and thus control of the ball is maintained.

Also, at times goalies will sort of dribble (basketball-like, not with their feet) the ball before punting it away. Is this in the rules or is it just a timing mechanism of sorts?

If anyone could jot down a quick answer I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[Cedric]

I have a question or two about goalies. I have seen them do the following things when they get possession of the ball. How do they decide which one to do?

a) Set the ball on the ground and kick it as if they were kicking a field goal. It seems they can get the most distance that way, but it is 50/50 whether their team keeps control of the ball.
This is a goal kick or for a foul deep in the opposition half of field. A goal kick is when the ball travels over the opposing end line and was last touched by the attacking team.
b) Punt the ball. Once again it goes along way but maintaining possession seems iffy.
This is usually done after a keeper collects the ball in the box and play has not been whistled dead yet.

c) Kick the ball as it is rolling towards them. I can see this in certain situations as clearing the ball quickly if the other side is nearby. But sometimes one of their teammates will kick one back towards them and they kick it while it is rolling towards them, even with noone from the other team around.
This is a back pass. When someone on the goalie team passes the ball back to the goalie he is not able to handle the ball inside the box. If he does it's an indirect free kick from inside the box.

d) Sling the ball towards a member of their own team. This seems to make the most sense to me as the ball is almost always received by a member of the goalie's team and thus control of the ball is maintained.

Also, at times goalies will sort of dribble (basketball-like, not with their feet) the ball before punting it away. Is this in the rules or is it just a timing mechanism of sorts?
They sling the ball if they want to make a quick counter and again are allowed to do this if they collect the ball in the box from an opposing attack. Can't be a back pass from their own team. The dribble is nothing specific. It's just a timing mechanism or a quirk. Doesn't have to be done at all.
If anyone could jot down a quick answer I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[paintmered]

They are a very southern country. Is it dark there at that time of evening?

They're far enough south that they probably only have 6-7 hours of sunlight each day this time of year.

[OldRightHander]

Hat trick for an Argentina player. The South Koreans were pretty overmatched.

[NJReds]

Hat trick for an Argentina player. The South Koreans were pretty overmatched.

Argentina is loaded with talent. The question with that team is if Maradonna would be a good coach. If he gets that group on the same page, they'll be tough for anyone to beat.

[oneupper]

They're far enough south that they probably only have 6-7 hours of sunlight each day this time of year.

Not that far south. Capetown Sunrise 7:49 AM Sunset 5:43 PM.

It's about as far south as Buenos Aires.

[NJReds]

Greece breaks their World Cup drought and scores their first ever goal in the tourny.

It's a 1-1 tie with Nigeria at half.

[15fan]

You had to know this was coming sooner or later.

http://www.antivuvuzelafilter.com

If, on the other hand, you just can't get enough of the vuvuzela, you can simulate the 2010 World Cup experience on any website you visit:

http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/redszone.com

[Roy Tucker]

http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java gives you a decent idea of sun vs. dark coverage.

My wife has to leave the room now if she hears those vuvuzela horns. They drive her crazy.

[Hoosier Red]

http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java gives you a decent idea of sun vs. dark coverage.

My wife has to leave the room now if she hears those vuvuzela horns. They drive her crazy.

Tell her it's not a drive but a short putt. She'll appreciate the humor.

[OldRightHander]

Greece with a 2-1 lead over Nigeria now. I'm kind of pulling for the Greeks here.

[Roy Tucker]

Tell her it's not a drive but a short putt. She'll appreciate the humor.

Or a long drive off a short pier. She's heard all of my bad jokes too many times and most of the time now I get an eyeroll.

[improbus]

I'm very happy to see that we are in the second round of games. Teams have gotten the jitters out are are pumping in the goals. Now it is time to really see some nice soccer.

[MWM]

That is a great explanation and I can definitely understand that. I still don't get it though. Instead of gaining an advantage by out-hustling the D, you get penalized for it.


Otherwise, you could camp one or more of your players right by the goal the entire game. No offsides would change the entire game, and not in a good way, IMO.

[NJReds]

Mexico takes a 1-0 lead against France. I can't stand Mexico, but if this result stands it's good for CONCACAF. France cheated their way into the cup anyway, and probably deserve to be eliminated quickly.

[ThornWithin81]

France is on the way out.

I can't complain.

[westofyou]

France is on the way out.

I can't complain.

They're boring now, time for new blood.

[reds1869]

I just installed the USA theme for Google Chrome. I'm loving it! Can't wait to watch the US, Germany and England all on the same day. For an Anglo-German American such as me it is like Christmas Eve.

[Tony Cloninger]

What if Mexico or Uruguay beat the other ....IF France beats SA...can they not still get in based on how many goals they score and what the differential is in the other game for the winner?

[guttle11]

What if Mexico or Uruguay beat the other ....IF France beats SA...can they not still get in based on how many goals they score and what the differential is in the other game for the winner?

France is at -2, Uruguay is at +3, Mexico is at +2. They have to beat South Africa by 3 to have any chance, but Mexico would have to lose by 2 goals. Seeing as how Mexico and Uruguay will be playing a bit guarded (don't want to lose anyone to a red or a second yellow), France is probably going to need 4 or 5 goals to really have any chance. I just don't see it. They've been terrible and South Africa will play with too much pride.

[Cedric]

France is at -2, Uruguay is at +3, Mexico is at +2. They have to beat South Africa by 3 to have any chance, but Mexico would have to lose by 2 goals. Seeing as how Mexico and Uruguay will be playing a bit guarded (don't want to lose anyone to a red or a second yellow), France is probably going to need 4 or 5 goals to really have any chance. I just don't see it. They've been terrible and South Africa will play with too much pride.

Yes. Uruguay and Mexico are both through with a draw. That will be the worst game of the tournament and almost certainly a draw.

[OldRightHander]

I just installed the USA theme for Google Chrome. I'm loving it! Can't wait to watch the US, Germany and England all on the same day. For an Anglo-German American such as me it is like Christmas Eve.

What about Irish Americans like me? Who do I have besides the US team? I guess I could always root against the Brits if I get bored. ;) (No offense to any fine RZ members from across the pond.)

[OldRightHander]

The ref is handing out cards like candy in this first match. Klose already out with a red and the Serbs up 1-0. I must admit I didn't see that coming.

[OldRightHander]

For those not up watching the first game, it's quite interesting. Serbia has been up a man since Klose went off with a red in the first half and they're up 1-0. Germany should have equalized when a Serb defender committed a hand ball in the box, but the keeper saved the penalty. The Germans are still attacking quite well for being down a man. Serbia has missed a couple chances to go up 2-0 though. This could be a big result for the US if Serbia wins this match since it could have ramifications for who they play in the first game of the knockout round.

[Yachtzee]

For those not up watching the first game, it's quite interesting. Serbia has been up a man since Klose went off with a red in the first half and they're up 1-0. Germany should have equalized when a Serb defender committed a hand ball in the box, but the keeper saved the penalty. The Germans are still attacking quite well for being down a man. Serbia has missed a couple chances to go up 2-0 though. This could be a big result for the US if Serbia wins this match since it could have ramifications for who they play in the first game of the knockout round.

I feel for the Germans, but I'm glad this ref isn't working the US game. The ref has not only affected this game with his card happy ways, but will affect future games with so many players sitting on yellows. This World Cup just doesn't seem to like attacking football

[NJReds]

Yes. Uruguay and Mexico are both through with a draw. That will be the worst game of the tournament and almost certainly a draw.

I haven't looked at the bracket to see who the first place team might play v. who the second place team might match up with, but there could be some motivation to win the group.

[OldRightHander]

New record today: Most names ending in -vic in any sporting event.

[oneupper]

For those not up watching the first game, it's quite interesting. Serbia has been up a man since Klose went off with a red in the first half and they're up 1-0. Germany should have equalized when a Serb defender committed a hand ball in the box, but the keeper saved the penalty. The Germans are still attacking quite well for being down a man. Serbia has missed a couple chances to go up 2-0 though. This could be a big result for the US if Serbia wins this match since it could have ramifications for who they play in the first game of the knockout round.

Just saw the second half. Germans dominated despite being a man down. Missed a PK! Serbia is the former Yugoslavia and always tough. Still, with a win against Ghana, Germany would almost certainly still be top in the group thanks to their 4-0 vs. Australia.

[bucksfan2]

WOW! I can't believe the Germans lost. After destroying Australia they lose to Serbia.

Was the Klose red card a bad call or a bad play?

[OldRightHander]

WOW! I can't believe the Germans lost. After destroying Australia they lose to Serbia.

Was the Klose red card a bad call or a bad play?

It was a second yellow on a tackle from behind. The ref was card happy today.

[westofyou]

WOW! I can't believe the Germans lost. After destroying Australia they lose to Serbia.

Was the Klose red card a bad call or a bad play?

9 Yellows in that game, sounds either too tight a reffed game or just a brutal trenches game, I however was still asleep.

[OldRightHander]

Yuck, playing from behind again.

[NJReds]

It was a second yellow on a tackle from behind. The ref was card happy today.

Tackles from behind are supposed to be automatic yellows. If Klose already had one, then he should not have taken that chance.

[Tony Cloninger]

Thanks Guttle11.

I think there is motivation to NOT want to play Argentina....but I feel like Uruguayans, like most of us..... would love to beat Argentina. Rematch of 1930 and just the national pride thing. Uruguay is more defense oriented and Mexico likes to be the run and gun type....so it will be fun to watch.

I hope South Africa beats France....they need the win and so does the country.

They play at the same time to avoid the 1982 debacle of W Germany vs Austria stalemate. Good idea they had to change that rule after that sham of a game.

[RawOwl UK]

Findley out of next game with his 2nd book of the tournement.

[RawOwl UK]

2-0 after US have had chances to level up.

[NJReds]

2-0 after US have had chances to level up.

This isn't all that surprising. Findlay shouldn't be on the team, or at least on the field as a starter.

The defense has been, and continues to be, atrocious.

Unless a miracle happens, it's another three and out for the US.

[westofyou]

Brutal result so far... and Slovenia has this guys shirt as their jersey design.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6420/528781-meet_charlie_brown_big_large.gif

[bucksfan2]

Well thanks for coming, better luck in 2014

[GIDP]

couple terrible calls by the boys in yellow today.

Still those 2 goals were unacceptable.

[Yachtzee]

9 Yellows in that game, sounds either too tight a reffed game or just a brutal trenches game, I however was still asleep.

It wasn't brutal at all. The ref was handing out cards for stuff that rated free kicks, but were rather innocuous.

[IslandRed]

Slovenia has this guys shirt as their jersey design

Those jerseys are unbelievably cool, but I'd rather they have Charlie Brown's typical level of success in the second half.

[RawOwl UK]

BOOOM Donovan !!!!!

Great goal !!!

[GIDP]

Suddenly the is a game again. US has been pounding some hard shots in there. Hopefully their D stands up and keeps it close.

[MWM]

Geez, I hate to say this but I had an overwhelming feeling all week like the US team was going to come out and lay an egg. It seems like it always happens in must win games against opponents they shouldn't have too much problem with. But when your defense is THAT bad, you're not going anywhere anyway. I still don't get how a national team can be that porous in soccer. You'd think by watching they were a player down and took that player from the back line.

[NJReds]

BOOOM Donovan !!!!!

Great goal !!!

I saw that Edu and Feilhaber came in for Torres and Findlay. Did Bradley move Donovan off the wing and into the strikers role w/Altidore?

If so, it might be the first in-game adjustment that he's ever made. And the fact that he used a substitution before the 85' is also a revelation.

[westofyou]

It wasn't brutal at all. The ref was handing out cards for stuff that rated free kicks, but were rather innocuous.

Not "brutal" as in pain, brutal as in bad ref calls

[NJReds]

Geez, I hate to say this but I had an overwhelming feeling all week like the US team was going to come out and lay an egg. It seems like it always happens in must win games against opponents they shouldn't have too much problem with. But when your defense is THAT bad, you're not going anywhere anyway. I still don't get how a national team can be that porous in soccer. You'd think by watching they were a player down and took that player from the back line.

Same here. Although the US can't really consider any opponent an easy opponent. Frankly, the US isn't all that good. They've had some good moments against good teams, but I think you can say that about a lot of the lower level squads.

[Hoosier Red]

I saw that Edu and Feilhaber came in for Torres and Findlay. Did Bradley move Donovan off the wing and into the strikers role w/Altidore?

If so, it might be the first in-game adjustment that he's ever made. And the fact that he used a substitution before the 85' is also a revelation.


I'm not watching, but just by reading the commentary, apparantly Dempsey was moved up top. I'm pretty sure that's what Bradley did last year too.

[NJReds]

I'm not watching, but just by reading the commentary, apparantly Dempsey was moved up top. I'm pretty sure that's what Bradley did last year too.

I'm not watching, either. But I think you're right.

Seems like US is getting opportunities to tie, but can't get the ball in the net.

[GIDP]

Holy smokes that was an exciting goal.

[Reds Fanatic]

I am not able to watch but I am following it on the iPhone app and it sounds like the US just lost a goal on a controversial call.

[dougdirt]

I am not able to watch but I am following it on the iPhone app and it sounds like the US just lost a goal on a controversial call.

They lost a goal on an absolutely terrible call.

[Hoosier Red]

They lost a goal on an absolutely terrible call.

Still tied up though. I almost had a heart attack when I updated it once and it talked about Bradley's goal, and then the first line I read is US goal waved off.

[OldRightHander]

Brutally horrible call on the goal there. Robbed of a win there, but if they hadn't conceded the early goal it would be a win anyway.

[westofyou]

They have really controlled the half, the ref however sucked the wind.

[NJReds]

God awful offside call. It's amazing how many big calls are screwed up in the World Cup.

[OldRightHander]

They have really controlled the half, the ref however sucked the wind.

Understatement of the day. The ref stole the win there. With some of those calls you have to wonder about bias.

[Scrap Irony]

Is World Cup refereeing usually this bad? These calls are blatantly bad.

Yet another reason to hate France.

Oops, Mali, apparently.

[GIDP]

Games like that make you really question is something else was going on. The ref made more than a few very very questionable calls.

[Reds Fanatic]

Good comeback to get the tie but that should have been a win. Ref called a foul on this disallowed goal and if anything it seems like it should have been a foul on the other team.

[Scrap Irony]

Is there a way to reprimand the guy? To have some sort of investigation?

[GIDP]

Really really bad calls through out that game. They seemed to dish out a ton of Yellows almost as a cover up.

[NJReds]

Is there a way to reprimand the guy? To have some sort of investigation?

Not sure, but according to the NY Times soccer blog, he completed mishandled the African Cup final, too. How does FIFA allow him in the World Cup?

[oneupper]

Good comeback to get the tie but that should have been a win. Ref called a foul on this disallowed goal and if anything it seems like it should have been a foul on the other team.

Was it a foul or an offside? Foul could be more understandable since there was a ton of pushing and shoving going on.

[Reds Fanatic]

With that result Slovenia leads group C with 4 points, the US has 2 points, England currently with 1 point plays Algeria 0 points this afternoon.

[GIDP]

Was it a foul or an offside? Foul could be more understandable since there was a ton of pushing and shoving going on.
I think they called a foul, but for every US guy with an arm somewhere there was a slovenian arm wrapped completely around him.

[oneupper]

For every US guy with an arm somewhere there was a slovenian arm wrapped completely around him.

Yeah, but not answering my question.

[Chip R]

How does FIFA allow him in the World Cup?


Probably the same way MLB let C.B. Bucknor be an umpire in the playoffs.

[Yachtzee]

Is there a way to reprimand the guy? To have some sort of investigation?

The ref isn't going to be reprimanded. The US has no pull with FIFA and FIFA isn't going to do anything to an African ref at the African World Cup.

[GIDP]

Yeah, but not answering my question.

I edited, I think they called a foul on Dempsey.

[oneupper]

I edited, I think they called a foul on Dempsey.

The guy who "scored" or someone else? (Don't know the players that well).

[reds1869]

Not sure, but according to the NY Times soccer blog, he completed mishandled the African Cup final, too. How does FIFA allow him in the World Cup?

Because they are FIFA and there is no known cure. He is considered the cream of the crop when it comes to African referees; that tells you all you need to know about the quality of African officiating. Political correctness wins the day and FIFA allows a referee who has already mailed it in on a big stage to do so on the biggest stage.

[Razor Shines]

I'm fairly certain they called offsides. If there was a foul to be called it should have been against Slovenia. Bradley was being blatantly held.

And that hand ball call on Findley early in the match was awful as well.

[GIDP]

The guy who "scored" or someone else? (Don't know the players that well).

Someone else. Dempsey is a white guy with a 3 day beard. Skinny guy, who scored the goal off the goalies hand last match.

The guy who scored was Edu, and the bald white guy who was majorly held is Bradley, also scored the 2nd goal to tie.

[reds1869]

I'm sure it will be edited soon, but Wikipedia's Mali entry is worth a read:

"Mali, officially the Republic of Mali (French: République du Mali), is a landlocked country in Western Africa that is known for horrible football referees. The country hates America and should just give up at life." :D

[GIDP]

I'm fairly certain they called offsides. If there was a foul to be called it should have been against Slovenia. Bradley was being blatantly held.

And that hand ball call on Findley early in the match was awful as well.

Funny enough Im not super mad that Findley got carded because I dont think he should be out there. He is like glue when he gets touches. So unsure of anything.

[reds1869]

I'm fairly certain they called offsides. If there was a foul to be called it should have been against Slovenia. Bradley was being blatantly held.

And that hand ball call on Findley early in the match was awful as well.

In the official statistics the United States is listed with zero offsides in the match. So it has to have been a foul.

[oneupper]

Someone else. Dempsey is a white guy with a 3 day beard. Skinny guy, who scored the goal off the goalies hand last match.

The guy who scored was Edu, and the bald white guy who was majorly held is Bradley, also scored the 2nd goal to tie.

Thanks. :)

[GIDP]

No doubt if there was a foul you have to call it against the defensive team. I didnt see anything other than maybe Dempsey pulling a defender to the ground but you could also say that the Slovenia guy was one the taking down Dempsey.

[Razor Shines]

In the official statistics the United States is listed with zero offsides in the match. So it has to have been a foul.

I don't know which call would have been worse, honestly.

[GIDP]

I don't know which call would have been worse, honestly.

Id have to go with offsides because the shot was even in front of the back line of defenders. At least if they called foul there is somewhat of an excuse for blowing it.

[Yachtzee]

Funny enough Im not super mad that Findley got carded because I dont think he should be out there. He is like glue when he gets touches. So unsure of anything.

I feel the same way. He has had a few open shots on goal where he chose to lay it off instead. Speed is no good if you don't take advantage of it.

[GIDP]

I feel the same way. He has had a few open shots on goal where he chose to lay it off instead. Speed is no good if you don't take advantage of it.

They played much more aggressive when he wasnt in there. Then again that could have been game play or Bradley taking every shot he was given a chance to shoot. Altidores gotta get more touches though. He was getting in late but in the 2 games so far this year he has been very limited.

[oneupper]

Id have to go with offsides because the shot was even in front of the back line of defenders. At least if they called foul there is somewhat of an excuse for blowing it.

Yeah. I asked about this because defenders will be allowed to get away with murder on that kind of play, but forwards are called for fouls routinely, on really tame stuff.

Not saying its fair, but that's the way it works.

[NJReds]

According to the story on Yahoo Sports, it was a foul called against Edu.

[GIDP]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5301919&categoryid=4823314&cc=5901&ver=us

watching the highlights lets see if I see any foul.

[GIDP]

Maybe a slight tug on a uni but still its pathetically minor if there even is one.

[Slyder]

I wish there was a better shot of that.

[NJReds]

Donovan interview: "He (referee) wouldn't tell us what the call was."

Also, they gave Findley a yellow for a hand ball on a play where the ball hit him in the face.

Altidore was brought down by the last defender, and that defender only got a yellow. That should be an automatic red.

The question is, again, why FIFA selects subpar officials instead of the world's best officials.

[Oxilon]

That was some embarrassing NBA-esqe refereeing displayed in the game. Even though we got one point out of the game, what's our stance moving forward? Basically praying that Algeria plays out of its mind against England?

[reds1869]

Disgraceful that the ref wouldn't explain the call. Simply disgraceful.

[oneupper]

That was some embarrassing NBA-esqe refereeing displayed in the game. Even though we got one point out of the game, what's our stance moving forward? Basically praying that Algeria plays out of its mind against England?

I'd say you want a tie there. It would make England need to defeat Slovenia (feasible), while the US would have to beat Algeria (feasible).

Not that Algeria is easy.

[MilotheMayor]

Redszone has finally embraced Web 2.0:

http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/www.redszone.com/forums/index.php?s=

[Slyder]

Donovan interview: "He (referee) wouldn't tell us what the call was."

1 Also, they gave Findley a yellow for a hand ball on a play where the ball hit him in the face.

2 Altidore was brought down by the last defender, and that defender only got a yellow. That should be an automatic red.

3 The question is, again, why FIFA selects subpar officials instead of the world's best officials.

1 The Referee is WAAAAAAAY to far out with WAYYYY too many bodies in between him and the action. First thing you are taught is to be in a position to see where the ball is going, there is no way he could see with all those bodies immediately in front of him. He needed to be a bit wider and about 2-3 yds closer. He got obstructed by #4.

2 Again I wish there was a shot of where the ref was. There is ZERO reason that shouldnt be a straight red, bit of an acting job maybe but still the guy is the last defender if he gets beat its one on one vs the goalie an obvious goal scoring opportunity as the ball is going TOWARD the goal (and yes that makes a difference).

3 those with kids playing think about before getting too hard on the refs. I have seen numerous times where parents ride young refs to the point that they quit for stupid reasons. Some were some of my better refs too. If you chase off the younger refs because parents are obnoxious you really limit what leagues can do as they have to use what they have.

And I just love it when I go to these places and hear people complaining why 2 of the 3 refs are old than they are.

Soccer is not a sport that can implement instant replay it would KILL the game as its intended to play.

[GIDP]

You want a tie, an Algeria win wouldnt be the worst thing though.

If Algeria wins the standings would be
Slovenia 4
Algeria 3
US 2
England 1

A tie makes it
Slovenia 4
US 2
England 2
Algeria 1

if The US wins against Algeria they likely advance as long as England loses or ties to Algeria.

I could be wrong because im trying to type and think at the same time while doing something but thats how I see it.

[oneupper]

3 those with kids playing think about before getting too hard on the refs. I have seen numerous times where parents ride young refs to the point that they quit for stupid reasons. Some were some of my better refs too. If you chase off the younger refs because parents are obnoxious you really limit what leagues can do as they have to use what they have.

.

I've coached and ref'd in girls rec soccer. Reffing is HARD. I only did it cause when was no one else (my eyesight isn't the best).
Still some of the parents will get on your case. I'd give them the whistle. "You want to do this?" No? Then STFU.

[NJReds]

I've coached and ref'd in girls rec soccer. Reffing is HARD. I only did it cause when was no one else (my eyesight isn't the best).
Still some of the parents will get on your case. I'd give them the whistle. "You want to do this?" No? Then STFU.

I agree. My daughter plays youth soccer and I never ride the refs. Most are high school kids trying to make a buck. Frankly, I don't think any parent has the right to yell at a youth sports ref/ump.

But I think, instead of taking the best pool of officials from around the world, I believe that FIFA takes the referee that each country recommends. The guy that was the referee today should only be able to watch the World Cup if he buys a ticket. There's no way that he should be calling a game of this importance.

[Slyder]

I've coached and ref'd in girls rec soccer. Reffing is HARD. I only did it cause when was no one else (my eyesight isn't the best).
Still some of the parents will get on your case. I'd give them the whistle. "You want to do this?" No? Then STFU.

I use the line "Hey whats your name and number I'll let you know when the next class is" and that usually makes them get quiet.

http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/blog/dirty-tackle/post/Referee-costs-U-S-win-can-t-stifle-massive-com?urn=sow,249575

And yes I know full well soccer cannot have instant replay would kill the game as its intended to be played. He's actually in a decent positionLooks like the defenders just got beat. It was more a rugby scrum than a soccer match but you could call any one of about a dozen different hold/push/obstruction/etc on that play.

One thing I did notice is that the US really owes this tie to a timid goal keeper, especially on the Landon Goal. He needed to be more assertive and make Landon do more with it than just stand their in the goal (literally) and wait for Landon to decide where in the back of the net he wanted it.

[NJReds]

I use the line "Hey whats your name and number I'll let you know when the next class is" and that usually makes them get quiet.

http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/blog/dirty-tackle/post/Referee-costs-U-S-win-can-t-stifle-massive-com?urn=sow,249575

And yes I know full well soccer cannot have instant replay would kill the game as its intended to be played. He's actually in a decent positionLooks like the defenders just got beat. It was more a rugby scrum than a soccer match but you could call any one of about a dozen different hold/push/obstruction/etc on that play.

One thing I did notice is that the US really owes this tie to a timid goal keeper, especially on the Landon Goal. He needed to be more assertive and make Landon do more with it than just stand their in the goal (literally) and wait for Landon to decide where in the back of the net he wanted it.

After watching that I'm even more confused. I can't find one US infraction. I do see two possible fouls against US players, though.

[Slyder]

I agree. My daughter plays youth soccer and I never ride the refs. Most are high school kids trying to make a buck. Frankly, I don't think any parent has the right to yell at a youth sports ref/ump.

But I think, instead of taking the best pool of officials from around the world, I believe that FIFA takes the referee that each country recommends. The guy that was the referee today should only be able to watch the World Cup if he buys a ticket. There's no way that he should be calling a game of this importance.

He's a grade 1 (req to be center ref at World Cup, the ARs are either Grade 1 or 2) which means he probably has 20-30 years exp, been through many training classes, done many games on an international stage (UEFA, Friendlies, previous world cups, etc). I'm not saying he did a good job by any stretch but he wouldnt be there if he didnt prove himself elsewhere as a competant official before this.

[Slyder]

You want a tie, an Algeria win wouldnt be the worst thing though.

If Algeria wins the standings would be
Slovenia 4
Algeria 3
US 2
England 1

A tie makes it
Slovenia 4
US 2
England 2
Algeria 1

if The US wins against Algeria they likely advance as long as England loses or ties to Algeria.

I could be wrong because im trying to type and think at the same time while doing something but thats how I see it.

Either way win vs Algeria and the rest of the bracket is a moot point.

[oneupper]

One thing I did notice is that the US really owes this tie to a timid goal keeper, especially on the Landon Goal. He needed to be more assertive and make Landon do more with it than just stand their in the goal (literally) and wait for Landon to decide where in the back of the net he wanted it.

On the second US goal, the center back moved out of position (opening up the middle).
Not a pretty game. But interesting.
I thought the US had much better stamina. The Slovenians looked winded by the middle of the second half.

[WMR]

He's a grade 1 (req to be center ref at World Cup, the ARs are either Grade 1 or 2) which means he probably has 20-30 years exp, been through many training classes, done many games on an international stage (UEFA, Friendlies, previous world cups, etc). I'm not saying he did a good job by any stretch but he wouldnt be there if he didnt prove himself elsewhere as a competant official before this.

A grade 1 African ref is a far cry from your typical grade 1 European official.

Just sickening.

And he wouldn't even tell the captain what the call was. Pathetic.

[Slyder]

On the second US goal, the center back moved out of position (opening up the middle).
Not a pretty game. But interesting.
I thought the US had much better stamina. The Slovenians looked winded by the middle of the second half.

It was a nice run on by Bradley. There wasnt much any goalie could have done but being aggressive and putting pressure on Bradley may have been the difference in a goal and Bradley lofting it just barely over the goal. In the shot you see him take 1 step and stop.

[Slyder]

A grade 1 African ref is a far cry from your typical grade 1 European official.

Just sickening.

And he wouldn't even tell the captain what the call was. Pathetic.

But I am sure he's probably done games in Europe or South America, not just in Africa at that level that is their job, not just a hobby like myself and most other referees.

[WMR]

But I am sure he's probably done games in Europe or South America, not just in Africa at that level that is their job, not just a hobby like myself and most other referees.

I'm sure he has, but if you were selecting your absolute BEST refs from a worldwide pool, he wouldn't get a sniff.

[15fan]

One thing I did notice is that the US really owes this tie to a timid goal keeper, especially on the Landon Goal. He needed to be more assertive and make Landon do more with it than just stand their in the goal (literally) and wait for Landon to decide where in the back of the net he wanted it.

Maybe the keeper was expecting the defender to make more of a charge towards Donovan? On the replay, the defense in the middle of the box was indecisive before trying to collapse on Donovan, allowing Donovan to set up for an easy shot. Had the defender closed more aggressively on Donovan while the keeper took away the near post, Landon would have had to pull the trigger sooner and beat both the keeper and the other defender.

The other thing I noticed on the replay was that the 2 American strikers in the box were really poorly spaced as Donovan moved toward the goal. They both were on top of each other and weren't in terribly good position to either pick up a deflection or take a pass from Donovan.

[Hoosier Red]

You want a tie, an Algeria win wouldnt be the worst thing though.

If Algeria wins the standings would be
Slovenia 4
Algeria 3
US 2
England 1

A tie makes it
Slovenia 4
US 2
England 2
Algeria 1

if The US wins against Algeria they likely advance as long as England loses or ties to Algeria.

I could be wrong because im trying to type and think at the same time while doing something but thats how I see it.
If England wins 1-0, England and Slovenia will be tied for the lead with 4 points, but Slovenia will lead in goals 3-2. So:
-If the US wins 1-0 and England wins, England wins group(7) and US places second(5)
-If the US wins 1-0 and Slovenia wins, Slovenia wins group(7) and US places second(5)
-If the US wins 1-0 and England and Slovenia tie: Each team ends up with 5 points, next tiebreaker is total goal differential; US (+1), Slovenia (+1) and England (+1), next tie breaker is total goals so unless the game ties at 3, than the US is still safe until it comes time to draw straws(literally the last tie breaker.)

If England defeats Algeria 2-0 or worse;
-If the US wins 1-0 and England wins, England wins group(7) and US places second(5)
-If the US wins 1-0 and Slovenia wins, Slovenia wins group(7) and US places second(5)
-If the US wins 1-0 and England and Slovenia tie: Each team ends up with 5 points, next tiebreaker is total goal differential; England wins group(+2) USA and Slovenia tied throughout.

The only downside is that I believe if England wins tonight by more than a goal, they’ll have no reason to fear missing the knockout stage if they achieve a scoreless draw. However since they have designs on getting far in the tournament, it will be enough of an incentive to move to the easy side of the bracket.

[GIDP]

Either way win vs Algeria and the rest of the bracket is a moot point.

Thats not exactly true. A win vs. Algeria puts the US in a really hard position to not advance though Ill agree with that.

[Yachtzee]

And he wouldn't even tell the captain what the call was. Pathetic.

That's the worst part. Makes me think he knew he messed up and didn't want to own up to it.

So far this has been the worst day of officiating for the World Cup. Let's see if the England-Algeria match is better.

[DirtyBaker]

We played our butts off and those refs really screwed us over. Not just taking the go-ahead goal off the board, but the handball that resulted in a yellow card wasn't even close either. I'm proud of the team either way, but it really forces us to get 3 points against Algeria.

Hey what is the best result from the US' standpoint for the England v Algeria game? A 0-0 tie?

[GIDP]

We played our butts off and those refs really screwed us over. Not just taking the go-ahead goal off the board, but the handball that resulted in a yellow card wasn't even close either. I'm proud of the team either way, but it really forces us to get 3 points against Algeria.

Hey what is the best result from the US' standpoint for the England v Algeria game? A 0-0 tie?

yes, and 2nd best is Algeria winning by about 1000000000000000000

[WMR]

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1465324

[dougdirt]

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1465324

From this thread
http://www.gonrad.com/201006/mauriceedudisallowedcloseupcaptions.gif

[GIDP]

WOW rofl.

[reds1869]

That is a great clip. What is really scary is it doesn't even show the other fouls that took place on that ball.

[Chip R]

That's actually a headlock and not a sleeper hold.

[westofyou]

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/06/18/the-goal-that-wasnt/#more-3632



This is going to be about U.S.-Slovenia … but let’s start with baseball for a moment. I know a woman who grew up in England and came to live in America 20 or so years ago. She was fascinated by this “baseball” thing she heard her friends talking about. She was not an especially big sports fan at the time, but she wanted to experience all that our great land has to offer, and so of course she wanted to see baseball and see why people seemed to like it so much.


She had moved to Texas, so she went to Arlington Stadium on a nice May day. She tried to take it all in. The grass was lovely. The fans were loud. The place smelled of popcorn and beer. The rules were confusing to her, but her friends told her to not worry so much about the rules. The pitcher throws the ball. The batter tries to hit it. The fielders try to catch it. Just take in the whole experience. So, that’s what she tried to do. And, they told her, keep watching the guy on the mound because he’s one of the greatest pitchers to ever play the game.
“But he looks so old,” she said.

He was old — 44 at the time. Still, she watched him. He did seem to throw the ball hard. And, as the game went along, she noticed this excitement building up. Her friends tried to explain after four innings, five innings, that the man on the mound had not given up a hit. They tried to explain to her that if he kept it going, it would be called a “no-hitter,” and this was a rare thing.

The no-hitter went six innings, then seven, and still the pitcher did not give up a hit, and her friends now tried to explain the history of the moment. A no-hitter is special enough but this was even more special because that pitcher had already thrown SIX no-hitters — more than any pitcher ever. In the eighth inning, with the crowd in a frenzy, the pitcher struck out the last two batters to keep the no-hitter going. My friend was enthralled.

As he walked to the mound in the ninth, the crowd was on the edge of lunacy, and she realized that she was in the middle of a great American moment. The pitcher was Nolan Ryan, of course. The date was May 1, 1991. And my friend’s first baseball game turned out to be Ryan’s seventh no-hitter. She was not entirely sure what she saw that day — and certainly did not fully absorb the enormity of the sports moment. But she has been a baseball fan ever since.

I thought about her Friday morning as I watched the United States soccer team put together one of the most remarkable comebacks in the history of the World Cup. I thought about her and all those people in America who were watching world class soccer more or less for the first time.

And I was thinking just what an overmatched referee named Koman Coulibaly cost us all.

Understand: This was Nolan Ryan’s seventh no-hitter. This was Jerry West’s 60-foot shot. This was Montana to Clark in the end zone. This was Bobby Orr’s flying goal. This was the young Tiger Woods at Augusta. This was all those things multiplied several times because this was happening on the giant stage, in the world’s biggest sporting event. A team does not come back from a 2-0 halftime deficit to win in the World Cup. It doesn’t happen. It had NEVER happened. In soccer at the World Cup level — with its impossible mix of passion and fury and consequence and vuvuzelas — each goal is a minor miracle. Two goals is something like insurmountable, especially when a team has shut you out for an entire half.

[Yachtzee]

Algeria is practically the B squad for France.

[Kingspoint]

From this thread
http://www.gonrad.com/201006/mauriceedudisallowedcloseupcaptions.gif

Every single player is doing something except the guy who scored the goal. It was merely a physical game and you go with the flow. You don't disallow the goal.

[Kingspoint]

Hey what is the best result from the US' standpoint for the England v Algeria game? A 0-0 tie?

and, a 0-0 tie it is.

[Kingspoint]

Group C..... GP.....W.....L.......T......GF.....GA....+/-....Pts

Slovenia.....2.......1......0.......1......3...... 2.......1......4
U. S. A.......2......0.......0......2.......3......3.... ..0.......2
England......2.......0......0......2......1....... 1......0.......2
Algeria........2......0......1.......1......0..... ..1......-1.....1

[GIDP]

So now if US beats Algeria they advance, if England beats Slovenia, and wins by less of a margin than US beats Algeria, the US wins the group.

Just win is all that matters now.

[NJReds]

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/06/18/the-goal-that-wasnt/#more-3632

Nice piece, but I think teams have come back from two goal deficits. It may have happened in a semi-final, too. I have to check.

[guttle11]

Nice piece, but I think teams have come back from two goal deficits. It may have happened in a semi-final, too. I have to check.

No team has ever trailed by 2 at half and won. Teams have come back from 2 down before half.

[oneupper]

Nice piece, but I think teams have come back from two goal deficits. It may have happened in a semi-final, too. I have to check.

Germany came back to tie the 1986 final after being down 2.

But they lost 3-2 to Argentina.

Great game. BTW.

[reds1869]

So now if US beats Algeria they advance, if England beats Slovenia, and wins by less of a margin than US beats Algeria, the US wins the group.

Just win is all that matters now.

Yep, win and we're in. If we can't beat Algeria we frankly don't deserve to advance. England put on a dreadful display today.

[NJReds]

Germany came back to tie the 1986 final after being down 2.

But they lost 3-2 to Argentina.

Great game. BTW.

I looked it up. The one I was thinking of was the 1982 semifinal - W. Germany and France.

It was tied 1-1 in regulation.

France went up 3-1 after the (goals in the 92' and 98').
Germany scored twice to tie it 3-3 (goals in the 102' and 108')

Germany won 5-4 in PKs and lost to Italy in the final.

That's an epic game.

[paintmered]

Yep, win and we're in. If we can't beat Algeria we frankly don't deserve to advance. England put on a dreadful display today.

Not only can the US advance with a win against Algeria, they can win the group outright if England figures things out against Slovenia.

If England plays like they did against Slovenia, I won't be surprised if the UK doesn't let the players return to the country. The English have to be in total meltdown mode after their team's performance today. And they have every right to be. But the scoreless draw was the best possible result for the Yanks, so I don't mind.

[reds1869]

Not only can the US advance with a win against Algeria, they can win the group outright if England figures things out against Slovenia.

If England plays like they did against Slovenia, I won't be surprised if the UK doesn't let the players return to the country. The English have to be in total meltdown mode after their team's performance today.

OTIB, a Bristol City board I post on, is going all Chernobyl on us. I have to tread lightly as a Yank anyway, but I'm being super careful right now. Folks in the West Country are not happy and I suspect it is a nationwide phenomenon.

[GIDP]

I suspect a down right dirty game between England and Slovenia.

[reds1869]

I suspect a down right dirty game between England and Slovenia.

It will be nasty for sure. I for one wouldn't want to find out my marking assignment is Peter Crouch!

[Hoosier Red]

Nice piece, but I think teams have come back from two goal deficits. It may have happened in a semi-final, too. I have to check.

It was also in the AP story. That may or may not make it right.

[Hoosier Red]

I looked it up. The one I was thinking of was the 1982 semifinal - W. Germany and France.

It was tied 1-1 in regulation.

France went up 3-1 after the (goals in the 92' and 98').
Germany scored twice to tie it 3-3 (goals in the 102' and 108')

Germany won 5-4 in PKs and lost to Italy in the final.

That's an epic game.

Doesn't that game technically count as a tie, with W Germany advancing on PK's?

[WMR]

It's all in front of the Yanks now.

[IslandRed]

Not only can the US advance with a win against Algeria, they can win the group outright if England figures things out against Slovenia.

Funny thing is, suddenly it's not so clear that winning the group is the way to avoid Germany in the Round of 16.

[Yachtzee]

Funny thing is, suddenly it's not so clear that winning the group is the way to avoid Germany in the Round of 16.

Of course, the US and Germany both learned that the ref you get may be just as important as who you play.

[oneupper]

I looked it up. The one I was thinking of was the 1982 semifinal - W. Germany and France.

It was tied 1-1 in regulation.

France went up 3-1 after the (goals in the 92' and 98').
Germany scored twice to tie it 3-3 (goals in the 102' and 108')

Germany won 5-4 in PKs and lost to Italy in the final.

That's an epic game.

Karl-Heinz Rummenigge was injured and came off the bench to lead that comeback, IIRC.
A definite classic.
That French squad was very good. Probably would have done better against the Italians in the final.

[KYRedsFan]

Gotta love England taking some of the sting out of the terrible call against us today. Just win baby and move on. Just wonder which US team will show up

[WMR]

I've been too aggravated about the USA game to comment much on the first one, but that red card on Klose was utter crap, and I mean utter.

The refs were doing a good job early on of keeping themselves OUT of the games. They need to make a concerted effort to get back to that immediately.

[Betterread]

I've coached and ref'd in girls rec soccer. Reffing is HARD. I only did it cause when was no one else (my eyesight isn't the best).
Still some of the parents will get on your case. I'd give them the whistle. "You want to do this?" No? Then STFU.

You coached and Reffed, eh? No conflict of interest?
I have coached for 20 years and none of the coaches I know referee. Zero. It seems like you do one or the other.
Referring pays more. Much more.

[Betterread]

I agree. My daughter plays youth soccer and I never ride the refs. Most are high school kids trying to make a buck. Frankly, I don't think any parent has the right to yell at a youth sports ref/ump.

But I think, instead of taking the best pool of officials from around the world, I believe that FIFA takes the referee that each country recommends. The guy that was the referee today should only be able to watch the World Cup if he buys a ticket. There's no way that he should be calling a game of this importance.
You are right about the FIFA assumption. This guy looked scared the whole game. Frankly, the US benefitted from his inexperience at the beginning of the game with the dempsey foul. The way this ref did nothing, in fact, he almost forgot to call the foul, was weird.

[Cedric]

Dempsey should have been gone right away. The ref was completely incompetent and we can only hope he is done for the rest of the tournament.

[GIDP]

I missed this Dempsey foul apparently. How early did it happen? I didnt see the first 10 minutes or so.

[Razor Shines]

Apparently Rooney thinks the Brits deserve more support.

YouTube - World Cup 2010: Wayne Rooney blasts booing England fans after drawing to Algeria. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOtQq7jyZE4)

[RawOwl UK]

I dont think booing does the team any good. BUT fans who have saved up for months years to travel to africa to watch THAT !!!!! deserve to let the team know what they thought of it.

Really dont want to go over that painful game again, so I will give you my latest facebook comment to look at the situation from another viewpoint. :)

Everyone goes on about Italia 90. We drew first 2 games and were dire. The fans were slagging off Sir Bobby Robson. The press had a field day and slagged of Sir Bobby Robson......... we grabbed an ugly win against Eygpt and scraped through the group. We went on to reach the semi final. You just never know.

[Betterread]

I dont think booing does the team any good. BUT fans who have saved up for months years to travel to africa to watch THAT !!!!! deserve to let the team know what they thought of it.

Really dont want to go over that painful game again, so I will give you my latest facebook comment to look at the situation from another viewpoint. :)

Everyone goes on about Italia 90. We drew first 2 games and were dire. The fans were slagging off Sir Bobby Robson. The press had a field day and slagged of Sir Bobby Robson......... we grabbed an ugly win against Eygpt and scraped through the group. We went on to reach the semi final. You just never know.
The three lions look worn out and uncreative - no surprise after the rigors of a premier league campaign. Also, the squad appears as a bunch of rock stars, not like a football team. That's good for their endorsement opportunities, but ensures they cannot achieve a collective team identity.
They are playing boring, unenthusiastic football, which is not representative of British football.

[RawOwl UK]

agree with all of that Betterread.

[WMR]

Michael Bradley deserves a ton of credit for his finish yesterday. It would have been so easy to send that ball, ESPECIALLY that ball, over the crossbar. Such a clinical finish.

[WMR]

I want to know why Capello keeps running Emile Heskey out there? Let's see some Defoe, something.

[WMR]

http://worldreferee.com/img/referee/coulibaly_koman2.jpg

:censored:

[improbus]

Unfortunately, we put ourselves in the position that a refs decision may determine our fate. Don't give up two first half goals to Slovenia and we don't need to worry about the refs decision.

[Screwball]

Anybody else watching Ghana and Australia right now? I thought the red on Kewell was a bit much. A handball in the box to stop a goal can certainly warrant a red, but I don't think he intentionally tried to stop it with his arm. A yellow and the ball at the spot would've sufficed, IMO.

Or is it an automatic red where the referee has no discretion?

[westofyou]

Anybody else watching Ghana and Australia right now? I thought the red on Kewell was a bit much. A handball in the box to stop a goal can certainly warrant a red, but I don't think he intentionally tried to stop it with his arm. A yellow and the ball at the spot would've sufficed, IMO.

Or is it an automatic red where the referee has no discretion?

Weak call, it was not an attempt to block the ball with the hand.

[WMR]

FIFA: The only fair analysis of referees can come at the end of a competition.

Are you freaking kidding me. LOL. Classic crap from FIFA.

[NJReds]

Anybody else watching Ghana and Australia right now? I thought the red on Kewell was a bit much. A handball in the box to stop a goal can certainly warrant a red, but I don't think he intentionally tried to stop it with his arm. A yellow and the ball at the spot would've sufficed, IMO.

Or is it an automatic red where the referee has no discretion?

It's automatic. His arm was sticking straight out and he stopped a goal from scoring. Even if he didn't mean to do it, when your arm is sticking straight out like that you're not getting the benefit of the doubt. Harsh rule, good call.

Same thing happened to the US versus Germany in the 2002 WC, and no call was made. It was just as bad as what happened to the US yesterday.

The ref in this game has complete control. Too bad he wasn't officiating yesterday.

[WMR]

So that joker will be allowed to work another game? Perhaps FIFA is just trying to save face. Do they really have the gall to assign him another match?

[NJReds]

FIFA: The only fair analysis of referees can come at the end of a competition.

Are you freaking kidding me. LOL. Classic crap from FIFA.

If that's true, why have they "allegedly" send this official home. FIFA is a big joke.

[Boss-Hog]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5304289/ce/us/fifa-ax-us-slovenia-ref-wc?cc=5901&ver=us

[WMR]

Thanks for the link.

The encouraging news is that every news outlet the world over is siding with the US and bemoaning the decision.

[Slyder]

Anybody else watching Ghana and Australia right now? I thought the red on Kewell was a bit much. A handball in the box to stop a goal can certainly warrant a red, but I don't think he intentionally tried to stop it with his arm. A yellow and the ball at the spot would've sufficed, IMO.

Or is it an automatic red where the referee has no discretion?

Thats going to be a red card at that level 99 times out of 100 and the 100th time is when the ball rebounds in to the goal. There is little the ref can do in that circumstance. It was the right call though, the guy stuck his arm out in such a manner to make himself bigger and block more of the goal just in case it happened.

[WMR]

It's a yellow card and a PK. You don't need to ruin a potentially great WC game. Giving the PK and a yellow is plenty.

[Slyder]

BTW those that watched Ghana vs Australia got to see a contrast to the goalie of Slovenia. Not once did the Ghana goalie hesistate and stopped multiple Aussie opportunities, sadly he was Ghana's best player today.This is one that Ghana is going to look back and know they should have won this one.

They were much faster.
They were more athletic.
They had a man advantage.
They were also much more mistake prone.
They were also commiting many just pointless fouls.

[Slyder]

It's a yellow card and a PK. You don't need to ruin a potentially great WC game. Giving the PK and a yellow is plenty.

Law 12 under Sending-Off Offenses:

Denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (does not apply to the goalkeeper).

The player stuck his arm out in such a manner to make himself bigger and to protect the goal, if his arm had been in a normal position he likely would not have stopped the ball. Or if his arm had been in a normal position, he likely would not have gotten it called. There is nothing the referee could do in that case but give a red, thats one of the things that you cannot say "well its a gray area" .

[WMR]

That's not deliberate enough to rate a red card. I have reffed plenty. Don't kill the game. That should be the mantra of every referee.

[WMR]

He should've given a red to Addy in the 41st minute if he gave a red for that handball.

[WMR]

Dempsey should have been gone right away.

Pretty good explanation from another board why this is wrong.


If that is a red, then almost every game would finish 8v8 or 9v9.

One player jumps with arms out while the other player doesn't jump or jumps later, and the second player gets hit in the face. It happens five or six times a game if not more often. Every player jumps with his arms up and out. Players get hit in the face all the time by this sort of thing.

Dempsey didn't pull back and hit him. He didn't drive his elbow into his face. He jumped up with his arms out like every other player. As the two players were coming together to head the ball, his arm struck the Slovenian player's shoulder first and then it skipped or deflected off the shoulder into the player's face. He did not come in and drive it straight into the player's face. Go back and re-watch it.

The Slovenian player and team (and the commentators) milked it for all it is worth and then some. They were milking all the early fouls and screaming for cards. Just a tactic they decided to use.

Yellow, possible maybe even probable. Red, no. It would have been a very harsh red.

Of course, if the question is "could" then of course the answer is yes. Look at poor Klose, "could" is always a possibility. And given the US history with getting red cards for yellow card offenses, I can even see how fans might have feared or expected a red. But "should"? No.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21058882&postcount=17

[NJReds]

It's a yellow card and a PK. You don't need to ruin a potentially great WC game. Giving the PK and a yellow is plenty.

Hate the rule, not the call. His arm was sticking straight out. It's an automatic red according to the rules. Had it been by his side, then the ref could have let it go.

[GIDP]

Unfortunately, we put ourselves in the position that a refs decision may determine our fate. Don't give up two first half goals to Slovenia and we don't need to worry about the refs decision.

I dont really buy into that line of thinking that much. Lots of close games in the world cup imagine if every game had 1 goal taken away in it. How many people would say "its thier own fault".

1 goal one way or another changes every game in the USAs group.

[NJReds]

That's not deliberate enough to rate a red card. I have reffed plenty. Don't kill the game. That should be the mantra of every referee.

Australia played better w/10 men.

You're asking a ref to make a split second decision when a player with his arm sticking straight out blocks a ball that was headed for the back of the net. I think he made the right call based on the rule.

I have more of a problem when they give a player a yellow for taking off his shirt while celebrating a goal ... but again, it's a rule. It's automatic. No gray area.

[WMR]

Hate the rule, not the call. His arm was sticking straight out. It's an automatic red according to the rules. Had it been by his side, then the ref could have let it go.

'If in the opinion of the referee...'

It was his upper arm.

[GIDP]

Does anyone else think its possible that the Ref purposely blew that call? I have such a hard time not thinking that. Someone help me out with a reason why I shouldnt feel some shady stuff didnt go down.

[WMR]

Australia played better w/10 men.

You're asking a ref to make a split second decision when a player with his arm sticking straight out blocks a ball that was headed for the back of the net. I think he made the right call based on the rule.

I have more of a problem when they give a player a yellow for taking off his shirt while celebrating a goal ... but again, it's a rule. It's automatic. No gray area.

I guess part of it is that my sense of fair play/rules regarding the game are pretty solidly formed at this point. I value the game above the rules. I know I'm not the only one who refs that way.

Two refs can see the same situation two very different ways.

[Slyder]

Does anyone else think its possible that the Ref purposely blew that call? I have such a hard time not thinking that. Someone help me out with a reason why I shouldnt feel some shady stuff didnt go down.

Which call? The handball, the one on the US?

[WMR]

Does anyone else think its possible that the Ref purposely blew that call? I have such a hard time not thinking that. Someone help me out with a reason why I shouldnt feel some shady stuff didnt go down.

It's possible but I think it's more likely he's just incompetent.

[GIDP]

Which call? The handball, the one on the US?

Sorry, Im talking about hte call in the US game.

[Slyder]

Sorry, Im talking about hte call in the US game.

If youre meaning the thought of it being "make up" call for not giving Dempsey a red in the first minute... No. A referee shouldnt be giving make up calls BUT I'm not stupid enough to think it doesnt happen (myself included). You dont wait for a pivotal moment like the 86th minute to do it, you take care of that "make up" at midfield or much, much, much earlier in the game and be done with it.

[GIDP]

If youre meaning the thought of it being "make up" call for not giving Dempsey a red in the first minute... No. A referee shouldnt be giving make up calls BUT I'm not stupid enough to think it doesnt happen (myself included). You dont wait for a pivotal moment like the 86th minute to do it, you take care of that "make up" at midfield or much, much, much earlier in the game and be done with it.

No I'm thinking something more along the lines of something Illegal going on. Him getting dismissed, and FIFA probably trying to avoid the issue by doing so, makes me think about something like that.

I mean the guy called a foul almost immediately. How early do refs know what games they are going to ref?

[WMR]

The allegations leveled towards him at the African Cup of Nations are disconcerting.

Seems to me that right there would get him knocked off the World Cup.

[Screwball]

If youre meaning the thought of it being "make up" call for not giving Dempsey a red in the first minute... No. A referee shouldnt be giving make up calls BUT I'm not stupid enough to think it doesnt happen (myself included). You dont wait for a pivotal moment like the 86th minute to do it, you take care of that "make up" at midfield or much, much, much earlier in the game and be done with it.

The thing is, I'd say the yellow to Findley for his inadvertent handball was plenty enough of a make up call. Findley now misses the next match. How much more making up could he feel he needed to do?

[WMR]

The thing is, I'd say the yellow to Findley for his inadvertent handball was plenty enough of a make up call. Findley now misses the next match. How much more making up could he feel he needed to do?

I think we're giving him too much credit. He had the classic 'deer in the headlights' look to me.

[Slyder]

No I'm thinking something more along the lines of something Illegal going on. Him getting dismissed, and FIFA probably trying to avoid the issue by doing so, makes me think about something like that.

I mean the guy called a foul almost immediately. How early do refs know what games they are going to ref?

If I had to guess, they probably know 6 months to a year in advance that theyre going to be doing A match. They probably don't know until weeks before which specific match they are assigned to.

Just from what I have read (didnt get to see the entire game) from most accounts he was just way over his head for the type of match.

[Slyder]

I guess part of it is that my sense of fair play/rules regarding the game are pretty solidly formed at this point. I value the game above the rules. I know I'm not the only one who refs that way.

Two refs can see the same situation two very different ways.

And that is certainly true but I think we're looking at it from two different standpoints. This is a level far above what most referees will ever see and that's why I tend to stand with the referee in giving the Red for the handball. You have more leeway to do little things differently away from the worldwide glare of the tv cameras.

I'm sure in the referee meeting(s)/information they covered a lot of things so that there would be more uniformity across "teams" so that the players go into it knowing where the line is. They didnt seem to argue too much after some pleading by the guy who got the card.

[Screwball]

I think we're giving him too much credit. He had the classic 'deer in the headlights' look to me.

True. The term gross incompetence comes to mind.

[Screwball]

Both defenses are making sure the Denmark-Cameroon game is wildly entertaining. All kinds of insanely good chances for both sides.

[Slyder]

http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/news/source-fifa-may-sit-slovenia-u-s-referee--fbintl_ro-referee061810.html

Theres a couple parts of this story I'd like to bring up. Having not watched the whole game I won't be discussing the actual events just the issue in general. Because some of this just screams of lackluster journalism.

Assessors also are likely to be concerned at the highly physical nature of the match.

There is nothing wrong with a soccer match being physical, anyone who has ever played knows that theres plenty of contact during the flow of the game... as long as the referee has it under control and knows when to snap with the proper response to keep it from escalting. Some of the best matches I have watched have been when both teams are slightly more physical than normal but with a referee who knew when to say okay thats enough and bring it down. Just because a game is physical doesnt mean a referee in general did a poor job of controlling the game.

Coulibaly’s mistake will only increase calls for the introduction of instant replay for controversial decisions, something FIFA has strongly resisted up to this point.

And I hope they continue to do so. Soccer, at the higher levels, is a sport that is meant to be constantly going, constantly flowing, instant replay in any form could KILL any sort of flow of a game devalueing it. Soccer is a game of split second decisions unlike the other sports where you have much more in the way of stoppages that is why I do not want instant replay in soccer. It takes away way to much from the game unlike the others that have more time built in. Soccer is suppose to be 90 minutes with 0 time stoppages for anything.

That (The FIFA review process) this is happening so quickly suggests FIFA is taking the complaints about Coulibaly seriously and is likely to leave him unassigned to referee further matches, according to the source. He could still appear as a line judge or other supporting role.

I highly doubt that if they do give him a 4th official or other supportive roll that it would be on any game in group C or something that could affect the US or Slovenia in the immediate future (IE if both move on to the knockout phase he be put on the other part of the bracket). And even that is remote with the amount of coverage the US/Slovenia game has received worldwide.

FIFA chooses its referees and assistants for each game from a list of elite officials specially selected for the tournament. They are evaluated before the World Cup to ensure that they meet standards of fitness and knowledge.

It was asked about earlier in the thread. He just looked like a dear-in-headlights.

[GIDP]

The only thing they should use replay for is to review yellow cards and stuff after the match is over for appeals.

[improbus]

I dont really buy into that line of thinking that much. Lots of close games in the world cup imagine if every game had 1 goal taken away in it. How many people would say "its thier own fault".

1 goal one way or another changes every game in the USAs group.

I agree that one goal makes a huge difference in soccer. But, I guess I'm trying to make a different point. The controversy has absolutely taken the focus off of the fact that the USA continues to fall behind in games and that their defending in the first half was shockingly bad.

[Slyder]

The only thing they should use replay for is to review yellow cards and stuff after the match is over for appeals.

AFTER the game thats one thing.

[GIDP]

I agree that one goal makes a huge difference in soccer. But, I guess I'm trying to make a different point. The controversy has absolutely taken the focus off of the fact that the USA continues to fall behind in games and that their defending in the first half was shockingly bad.

No doubt. I agree with you. I just cant stand when people say they shouldnt leave it up to the refs. Soccer isnt one of those games like Baseball, NFL, and NBA. Leaving it up to the refs happens in the majority of the time.

[improbus]

Quite the dive by De Rossi. Sometimes I hate soccer players.

[Cedric]

I had to chuckle when the announcer said he was unbiased at the end. They were incredibly biased the whole match there.

[Reds Fanatic]

A shocking result as New Zealand plays to a draw with Italy 1-1.

[ochre]

A shocking result as New Zealand plays to a draw with Italy 1-1.
What's more shocking is that NZ deserved to win that.

[Chip R]

France is just a train wreck. One of their players was sent home for insulting the coach, the team refused to practice and now their director has quit.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5307299/ce/us/france-team-refuses-practice-nicolas-anelka-expulsion?cc=5901&ver=us

[Betterread]

What's more shocking is that NZ deserved to win that.
NZ deserved their share of the points, but I'm interested to hear how NZ deserved to win. Their goal was cheap - the result of terrible attempt to clear from Cannovaro. It was in the "resourceful" category. The Italian penalty was soft also, so it was even in the "luck" department.

[Betterread]

Brazil: Cote D'Ivoire - 3:1
The ref in the US:Slovenia game was a genius compared to the French ref in this one. On the second Brazil goal, Fabiano used his hand to control the ball and on the finishing strike brought the ball down with his bicep. Two times he handled the ball on one move. Later the ref was seen joking with him about whether he handled the ball.
Then Cote D'Ivoire got their revenge by injuring Elano out of the game and then Keita with the dive of the tournament got Kaka red-carded. And the kicker is, it hurts the country's chances. It is in their interest to have Brazil try to win with their best squad against Portugal Now Elano and Kaka will not play. Good job moron.
If this tournament displayed African soccer, then what we saw out of Ghana, Cameroon, Nigeria and Cote D'Ivoire was cynical, boring, conservative soccer played by mercenaries with no national pride.
What a chance to display skill for your country, wasted.

[Cedric]

NZ deserved their share of the points, but I'm interested to hear how NZ deserved to win. Their goal was cheap - the result of terrible attempt to clear from Cannovaro. It was in the "resourceful" category. The Italian penalty was soft also, so it was even in the "luck" department.

I agree. It's understood that teams are going to put 11 behind the ball against superior competition, but this is getting absurd. Hopefully the "bad" teams get put out by the knockout rounds.

[11larkin11]

Heres a little something. The Yanks played twice at Loftus Versfeld Stadium last year at the Confed Cup. They lost twice by a combined score of 6-1. Of course, that was against Italy and Brazil. They play Algeria there on Wednesday.

[Cedric]

Heres a little something. The Yanks played twice at Loftus Versfeld Stadium last year at the Confed Cup. They lost twice by a combined score of 6-1. Of course, that was against Italy and Brazil. They play Algeria there on Wednesday.

Luckily there probably won't be a Bornstein, Beasley, Kljestan sighting Wed.

[reds1869]

Luckily there probably won't be a Bornstein, Beasley, Kljestan sighting Wed.

Nor will there likely be a Coulibaly sighting. All of these things are in our favor.

[Yachtzee]

NZ deserved their share of the points, but I'm interested to hear how NZ deserved to win. Their goal was cheap - the result of terrible attempt to clear from Cannovaro. It was in the "resourceful" category. The Italian penalty was soft also, so it was even in the "luck" department.

Most goals scored in the course of play are the result of mistakes on defense, whether it's failure to mark the right man or a poor clearance. Taking advantage of that is hardly cheap. IMO, cheap goals are the ones that result from the use of shenanigans or play-acting (i.e. Fabiano's handling the ball on his second goal today or De Rossi's dive in the box).

[Yachtzee]

Brazil: Cote D'Ivoire - 3:1
The ref in the US:Slovenia game was a genius compared to the French ref in this one. On the second Brazil goal, Fabiano used his hand to control the ball and on the finishing strike brought the ball down with his bicep. Two times he handled the ball on one move. Later the ref was seen joking with him about whether he handled the ball.
Then Cote D'Ivoire got their revenge by injuring Elano out of the game and then Keita with the dive of the tournament got Kaka red-carded. And the kicker is, it hurts the country's chances. It is in their interest to have Brazil try to win with their best squad against Portugal Now Elano and Kaka will not play. Good job moron.
If this tournament displayed African soccer, then what we saw out of Ghana, Cameroon, Nigeria and Cote D'Ivoire was cynical, boring, conservative soccer played by mercenaries with no national pride.
What a chance to display skill for your country, wasted.

I think I'm glad I wasn't able to watch this one. I've been hearing it was a cynical, negative game, which is a shame when you think of the talent available on both side for beautiful soccer.

[WMR]

Wow, congrats to Italy, getting all the way to the 14th minute before taking their first dive. The only team I absolutely want to see lose.

[WMR]

The dive on that PK was horrendous. God, I hate Italy.

And those announcers sucked.

[NJReds]

Wow, congrats to Italy, getting all the way to the 14th minute before taking their first dive. The only team I absolutely want to see lose.

Did you catch the divefest at during the last 15 minutes of the Ivory Coast - Brazil game. Seemed like they were each trying to outdo the other to get yellow cards called on their opponents. It was humorous, except that the clueless ref bought it.

The second yellow on Kaka was an absolute joke. The guy ran into Kaka's back, and then fell down and grabbed his face. Now one of the best players in the tourney is out because of the red card ... for what?

[NJReds]

Nor will there likely be a Coulibaly sighting. All of these things are in our favor.

He was the 4th official for the Italy - New Zealand game, though. I thought they had booted him from the tourny. Not so. He's still working, albeit not on the field.

[NJReds]

Portugal with a touchdown against North Korea (7-0). The fearless leader will not be amused.

[NJReds]

I don't see how the Italians can win without Pirlo. The only dynamic "playmaker" in the whole setup for them.

I disagreed with you earlier in this thread, but I was flat out wrong. The Italians dominated possession, shots and corners against the defensive Kiwis, but they lacked the creativity in the midfield to create meaningful chances. They despirately need Pirlo (or Cassano, who's at home). DeRossi had one decent shot on goal, but he, Marchisio, Pepe and Camorenesi all failed to release the strikers.

[Hoosier Red]

Portugal with a touchdown against North Korea (7-0). The fearless leader will not be amused.

So you're saying that game will not be on television in Pyong-Pyang?

[NJReds]

So you're saying that game will not be on television in Pyong-Pyang?

I think I had read that it was the first (and probably last) live telecast of a soccer match in North Korea. I wonder what the score was when "technical difficulties" struck.

[NJReds]

Well the US's favorite ref is officially gone. As is the French official who butchered the Brazil - Ivory Coast game. The US will be getting a very experienced official for the Algeria game.

The frustrating thing is that the US is a post and a horrible call away from 6 points in the group. The good thing is that their fate is in their control.


PRETORIA, South Africa – Controversial referee Koman Coulibaly was left off FIFA’s list for the next batch of World Cup matches following the error that cost the United States a victory against Slovenia.

Yahoo! Sports revealed on Friday that Coulibaly was “highly unlikely” to take any further part in the tournament after being given a poor evaluation by assessors following his decision to disallow Maurice Edu’s 86th-minute goal. FIFA confirmed yesterday that Coulibaly will not play any part in Tuesday or Wednesday’s matches, which will include Team USA’s critical Group C finale against Algeria.

Instead, as they step into the arena of Loftus Versfeld Stadium on Wednesday with their World Cup life at stake, the Americans will be officiated by a man who has just witnessed a combat far more brutal than any game in the tournament.

Belgian referee Frank De Bleeckere will prepare himself for the occasion by watching a DVD of the movie “Gladiator” before taking center stage in a game that decides the USA’s destiny – with a victory guaranteed to put the Americans through to the last 16.

FIFA deliberately assigned De Bleeckere, a highly experienced and respected referee, to this game in response to the storm of controversy that came after the United States’ 2-2 draw with Slovenia. De Bleeckere has been in charge of big matches many times in the past, most notably a Champions League clash between Chelsea and Barcelona in 2006 which came a year after a pair of explosive matches between those teams. link to the rest of the article ... (http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/news/fifa-drops-referee-after-dropped-call--fbintl_ro-fifaref062110.html)

[freestyle55]

So you're saying that game will not be on television in Pyong-Pyang?

Of course it will, they'll just say that all of those goals were disallowed by the Ref that screwed us or say they won 0-7. Soccer is like golf, remember, the lowest score wins!

[Slyder]

Well the US's favorite ref is officially gone. As is the French official who butchered the Brazil - Ivory Coast game. The US will be getting a very experienced official for the Algeria game.

The frustrating thing is that the US is a post and a horrible call away from 6 points in the group. The good thing is that their fate is in their control.

And theyre one goalie mistake from having to win and hope for help or a timid goalie and a goalie mistake away from being done too.

[NJReds]

And theyre one goalie mistake from having to win and hope for help or a timid goalie and a goalie mistake away from being done too.

True. Although I was speaking more of things out of the players control ... the post, the ref's bad call and not player mistakes.

[hebroncougar]

Any Football Manager players on here?

[WMR]

I wonder if any North Koreans will defect while they're in South Africa? I sure as hell would.

[reds1869]

Any Football Manager players on here?

I am a total addict. :)

[ochre]

http://i.imgur.com/lKxA3.gif

[Cedric]

This Chile result really hurts Spain. With the Swiss getting Honduras it's pretty much a guarantee that the Spanish must win both games left and still need a good goal difference.

[texasdave]

Was there an offsides on the Chilean goal? Seemed obvious to me, but I am not entirely familiar with the rules of the game.

[oneupper]

Was there an offsides on the Chilean goal? Seemed obvious to me, but I am not entirely familiar with the rules of the game.

Dude on the right was offside, but he didn't get the ball. I think that used to be called offsides, but now they won't call it if he wasn't involved in the play.
They changed that rule a few years ago, IIRC.

[texasdave]

Dude on the right was offside, but he didn't get the ball. I think that used to be called offsides, but now they won't call it if he wasn't involved in the play.
They changed that rule a few years ago, IIRC.

Thanks for the explanation. I was hoping I wasn't just seeing things. It's way too early in the day for that. :)

[Slyder]

Dude on the right was offside, but he didn't get the ball. I think that used to be called offsides, but now they won't call it if he wasn't involved in the play.
They changed that rule a few years ago, IIRC.

Yes they did, probably 3-4 years ago they started telling referees to hold on the whistle to see whether the player offsides position was going to "make a play on the ball" rather than immediately call it.

[Hoosier Red]

True. Although I was speaking more of things out of the players control ... the post, the ref's bad call and not player mistakes.

Yes and no. Hitting the post is within a player's ability, if it wasn't then you could simply say that every goal was nothing but "missing the post."

The US have gotten their fair share of the breaks(starting with an easy draw, the softest goal in World Cup history, Dempsey not being sent off after his elbow, Robbie Findlay getting a second yellow card and thus being suspended for the most important match) so it's not quite right to only point out where the team was unlucky. And it may end up being more fortuitous to finish 2nd in the group if Ghana is able to get a tie versus Germany.

[NJReds]

Another dubious red card. This time in the Switzerland-Chile matchup. Although coaches and players can't really complain about these calls. The overacting, flopping antics of the players have put the referees in a very difficult position when trying to sort out real fouls from standard contact. They have only themselves to blame.

From the NY Times Goal Blog:


This meeting was billed as a clash of contrasting styles: a hard-charging Chilean offense against a well-drilled Swiss defense. But a string of early bookings, including a straight red card for Switzerland’s Valon Behrami in the 31st minute, set the tone for a game that was scrappy throughout. Replays of the red card decision showed that Chile’s Arturo Vidal overly embellished his fall after being hit by the arm of Behrami.

[reds1869]

That was a terrible sending off. FIFA really needs to review post-match video evidence the same way the English FA does (and FIFA once did). You can't change the result, but you make floppers think twice before they engage in their antics if they know it can earn them a suspension.

[NJReds]

That was a terrible sending off. FIFA really needs to review post-match video evidence the same way the English FA does (and FIFA once did). You can't change the result, but you make floppers think twice before they engage in their antics if they know it can earn them a suspension.

Agreed. They should reverse the penalty upon review. Let the carded player play and suspend the player who flopped.

[MWM]

http://i.imgur.com/lKxA3.gif

That's very funny.

But that is the stuff that ruins the game. For the life of me, I don't understand why FIFA doesn't take measures to put a stop to it. They should have the ability to award red cards after the fact when it was an obvious flop. That would put a stop to it pretty much immediately.

It's impossible for a ref to be able to see what's real and what's a flop. I think it's the biggest issue in the world of soccer and I don't think FIFA can underestimate how much it impacts the game. It's nonsense and the fix is so easy.

They could call it the Italy rule. :evil:

[dabvu2498]

Want people to hate your sport? Determine who advances in it's biggest event by doing this:


Thanks to FIFA's bizarre rules, the final tie-breaker in the group stage -- after goals scored and goal differential -- is, no joke, a "drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee."

http://soccer.fanhouse.com/2010/06/18/bizarre-tiebreaker-could-put-u-s-at-risk-in-world-cup/

[oneupper]

Want people to hate your sport? Determine who advances in it's biggest event by doing this:



http://soccer.fanhouse.com/2010/06/18/bizarre-tiebreaker-could-put-u-s-at-risk-in-world-cup/

Nothing new there, its been that way since group play began in 1974. If you were in a position where you rely on chance to make it to the next round, you probably weren't doing that well in the first place.

It hasn't been used so far, doubt it will be used this year.

[dabvu2498]

Nothing new there, its been that way since group play began in 1974. If you were in a position where you rely on chance to make it to the next round, you probably weren't doing that well in the first place.

It hasn't been used so far, doubt it will be used this year.

Even though it hasn't been used, it's still been broken since 1974.

Sounds BCS-like.

[MrMcConnell]

Want people to hate your sport? Determine who advances in it's biggest event by doing this:



http://soccer.fanhouse.com/2010/06/18/bizarre-tiebreaker-could-put-u-s-at-risk-in-world-cup/

I won't feel sorry for any of the Euro teams or the USA if they lose out on that draw. All of those Euro teams who were favored have performed below expectations with bad losses or ties. And the US should've never been down 2-0 to Slovenia anyway. Besides, if you get to the 3rd tiebreaker anyway, you may as well flip a coin.

[MrMcConnell]

Even though it hasn't been used, it's still been broken since 1974.

Sounds BCS-like.

Have we gotten any 'wrong' champions in the BCS yet? I don't believe we have as I think the right team has won every year.

[IslandRed]

The coin-flip thing sounds silly, but by the time it gets to that point, all the meaningful results-based possibilities have been exhausted. Other than doing something just as gimmicky, like dragging them out for a morning round of penalty kicks, I'm not sure what else there is to do.

[Hoosier Red]

Even though it hasn't been used, it's still been broken since 1974.

Sounds BCS-like.

The final tie breaker in the NFL is a coin flip. Admittedly they have a larger number of games and many more steps in front of it(I think it's 15.)

It hasn't detracted from the NFL fan experience to date.

[Betterread]

God, I hate Italy.


Classy. Is this what Daddy taught you?

[WMR]

Classy. Is this what Daddy taught you?

:lol: Drinking tonight?

YouTube - Kindergarten Cop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzukGfdgPCM)

As classy as those diving scumbags who play for the Azzuri. :D

[Betterread]

:lol: Drinking tonight?

As classy as those diving scumbags who play for the Azzuri. :D

No. I don't understand your humor. You're offensive and possibly racist.

[WMR]

No. I don't understand your humor. You're offensive and possibly racist.

:laugh: Thinking Italian soccer is garbage makes me racist? :all_cohol

Italian soccer is what's offensive.

And Italian soccer fans are the ones who are racist, not me. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=racism+in+italian+soccer&aq=1&aqi=g5g-m2&aql=&oq=racism+in+ita&gs_rfai=C5BDL6CAgTNfQCoLqzATttIzQDQAAAKoEBU_QaMmy&fp=ff274912d96214e6

[NJReds]

As classy as those diving scumbags who play for the Azzuri. :D


Italy is the only team that dives? I guess all those other games I watch are a mirage. More players were falling in the last 5 minutes of the Ivory Coast - Brazil match that Italy's last 10 games combined.

Soccer players dive. It's what they do. The best player in the sport ... or one of them ... is Ronaldo. He falls more than a drunk ice skater. In South America, CONCACAF, Europe and Asia. Although the US isn't very good at it, they're getting better. Altidore took a good flop to draw the free kick that eventually led to the controversial "no goal" call. I'm not defending Italy, they drop, too, especially DeRossi. But they didn't invent it or perfect it. I'd say the Latin American teams are the worst offenders ... because they'll cheap shot you and then fall like they were shot if there's any retaliation.

[WMR]

A fine example of an Italian footballer....

YouTube - WORST DIVE EVER... GILARDINO DIVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W00d3yJKl4)

[Boss-Hog]

Rather than discuss supposed racism in soccer, let's get this thread back on track.

[Chip R]

Rather than discuss supposed racism in soccer, let's get this thread back on track.

Dang soccer hooligans. ;)

[Yachtzee]

Regardless of which country has the worst divers, it remains a black mark on the sport that has to be managed. I think that if FIFA really wanted to get tough they could implement a few measures that I think would greatly curtail the practice:

1. Using video replay for the purpose of reviewing blatant acts of unsportsmanlike conduct, including intentionally dangerous play and clear displays of simulation intended to draw a red card for the opposition or an unwarranted penalty kick.

2. Suspend players deemed to have engaged in unsportsmanlike conduct for two games, as if the player had received a red card at the start of the next game. Likewise, if any player had received a red card as a result of a clear simulation, his suspension for the next game is lifted.

3. If it continues to be a problem, FIFA could threaten teams engaging in excessive unsportsmanlike conduct with point deductions. I imagine the Brazil-Ivory Coast match might have gone differently if the teams had the threat of losing a point or two if they kept things going.

[reds1869]

Yachtzee's suggestions would go a long way towards solving the diving problem. The English FA already makes limited use of video evidence, no reason FIFA can't.

[improbus]

Regardless of which country has the worst divers, it remains a black mark on the sport that has to be managed. I think that if FIFA really wanted to get tough they could implement a few measures that I think would greatly curtail the practice:

1. Using video replay for the purpose of reviewing blatant acts of unsportsmanlike conduct, including intentionally dangerous play and clear displays of simulation intended to draw a red card for the opposition or an unwarranted penalty kick.

2. Suspend players deemed to have engaged in unsportsmanlike conduct for two games, as if the player had received a red card at the start of the next game. Likewise, if any player had received a red card as a result of a clear simulation, his suspension for the next game is lifted.

3. If it continues to be a problem, FIFA could threaten teams engaging in excessive unsportsmanlike conduct with point deductions. I imagine the Brazil-Ivory Coast match might have gone differently if the teams had the threat of losing a point or two if they kept things going.
I love it. Great ideas. The two problems soccer faces are poor refs and diving. These would go a long way toward fixing both of those issues.

[Chip R]

More French drama. Their captain is not starting the match against South Africa.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/800293/ce/uk/?cc=5901&ver=us

[reds1869]

More French drama. Their captain is not starting the match against South Africa.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/800293/ce/uk/?cc=5901&ver=us

What a soap opera. The French are making England look like The Waltons.